'It's the Enforcement, Stupid'

J$P Instant Transcript! Michelle Malkin and Dr Juan Hernandez take on Arizona's Prop 200.

From The O'Reilly Factor, Dec 22 2004:

TONY SNOW [FOX NEWS]: In the Factor Follow-Up segment, tonight, a federal Judge in Arizona has ruled on the fate of a controversial immigration measure passed on election day. Proposition 200 can mean jail time for government workers who don't report illegals. After it was passed a judge temporarily blocked it because some say it's not constitutional. This afternoon he lifted that block but the topic is still generating hot debate. Joining us now from Dallas, Dr Juan Hernandez, founder of the Center for US-Mexico Studies at the University of Texas, and from Washington Fox News Analyst Michelle Malkin, author of the book In Defense of Internment. Dr Hernandez, let me just summarize what Proposition 200 called for. A, it requires government workers to check for whether somebody is an illegal citizen for getting certain kinds of benefits, all nonfederal benefits, registering to vote. And it says that if somebody willingly lets an illegal slip through, they can get jail time. What's wrong with any of these provisions?

DR JUAN HERNANDEZ: My friend, this is really just an incredible bill. I call it the Illegal Librarian Proposition. We're talking about having even, you can't even give now a library card to someone because you're afraid they're undocumented. And the state of Arizona I'm sure is just embarrassed by this; they have been such an innovative state in working with their neighboring state of Sonora for years--

SNOW: Well, Dr Hernandez, Dr Hernandez, you've said something very charming but you didn't answer the question. A lot of people are going to say isn't it important--look, I try to apply for a job, I've got to provide proof of citizenship. I mean, everybody watching this show right now has been through the drill. When you go to get a library card, guess what, you've got to show a driver's license or proof of citizenship. It happens everywhere.

HERNANDEZ: Well no, my friend, that's not the way this country has worked, ever. Forgive me for contradicting you, but we give a mixed signal to these wonderful people that are coming up here to work. We would not have the lifestyle that we have if they were not up here working. We tell them don't come, don't come, but if you make it there will be a reward. And I'm so glad that Republicans, George Bush is wanting to change this, John McCain is against this proposition 200, the Governor of the wonderful state of Arizona is against this proposition. And it is going to have to fail. It will probably happen like the 187 that we had in California that was such a mistake, this one we'll find out very soon that it's a mistake too, my friend.

SNOW: OK, my friend, but let me, one more question to you and then I'm going to go to Michelle. You keep saying that this is going to fail in the courts and that it's an embarrassment and so on. You have a majority of the people in Arizona voting for it. It appears that a majority of Hispanic voters may have supported it. Now it sounds to me based on what you were just saying is that you are opposed to having undocumented, illegal workers, whatever, illegal immigrants, you are opposed to figuring out who they are. Why?

HERNANDEZ: Oh no, on the contrary, I think that our system is broke. We need an integral, we need a comprehensive reform on immigration, so that we do have legal people here, of course. But that also the good people that are helping this nation, that we do put them on a track, even for citizenship in this nation. That's the way we've all come to this nation, my friend. That's what America's all about.

SNOW: All right. Michelle, why don't you respond to our friend?

MICHELLE MALKIN: Well, he's not my friend and he's certainly not a friend of the United States, the rule of law, or sovereignty.


MALKIN: And I don't think that Arizonans are ashamed or embarrassed at all of what they've done. As Tony mentioned, a majority, a wide majority, of Arizonans supported this bill, and I think it's something that should be a nationwide trend. The fact is that the federal government, our federal government, has failed to do its duty to promote the general welfare, our welfare, and to provide for the common defense. This law is about enforcement, and it is the enforcement, stupid. Now I don't fault Dr Hernandez for standing up for his people and for doing what he thinks needs to be done to support Mexicans who are living here. In fact, if President Bush were as vigorous about protecting our citizens as Dr Hernandez and his former boss Vincente Fox were, we'd be a lot safer, stronger, and the better off for it. Now, Tony asked a question that Dr Hernandez still did not answer, which is, what is so wrong with asking people what their citizenship status is before they vote and before they collect benefits in our country.

HERNANDEZ: But let me agree with you--

MALKIN: And there is an entitlements mentality that has become so entrenched that somehow "undocumented workers", in other words people who are here breaking our laws, somehow feel entitled to not be asked what their citizenship status is, and to not be bothered by enforcement of the laws.


HERNANDEZ: Let me agree with you.

MALKIN: Being in favor of enforcement is not anti-immigrant.

SNOW: OK, Dr Hernandez, because I was going to raise a question about that point as well, you said you need something comprehensive.

HERNANDEZ: That's right.

SNOW: A, why isn't it good enough to start with this, and B, what would your solution be?

HERNANDEZ: OK, there's a huge poll done by one of your friends, and I am your friend and also of our dear lady that's on this show. There's a huge poll done by Dick Morris, a guy's been on your show many times. He did a huge poll, about 80,000 Americans, and they were in favor of a legalization if it had five quick things: number one that they all had jobs that no one else wanted, that they were all paying social security and taxes, by the way, most undocumenteds are--

SNOW: But you're talking about people who come here illegally and work and fill these jobs and all this.

HERNANDEZ: Yes sir. Definitely. Yes, those good people. I'm sorry?

SNOW: I'm talking about, but let me ask you, I'm curious about how first you find out who these people are. Because the Clinton administration decided they'd try to do something about it, then they threw up their hands and said we can't. The Bush administration the same thing. I'm interested in how you get the census together to figure out who's who.

HERNANDEZ: Well, first of all, we have to do two things to make sure that we fix what's broken. Number one, we have to find the people who are here, who are even for security reasons, who do have jobs, who have no criminal record, who are paying social security and taxes, and let's go ahead and give them a working paper. Then number two, let's have a program--

MALKIN: How are you supposed to find them if you can't ask them--

HERNANDEZ: --let me finish my dear friend. Let's have a program now so that we don't get into the same mess ten years from now as we are in a mess from 1986 to today. The amnesty was great, but we didn't fix the program.

SNOW: OK. All right, Michelle Malkin, you get the final word.

MALKIN: Every time that we have done amnesty in this country it has resulted in one thing only, and that is more illegal immigration. The ultimate agenda of La Raza and Dr Hernandez and people like him in the open borders lobby is the ultimate subversion of our laws. Prop 200 is a message that should be shouted at the top of the rooftops, which is that it is enforcement, stupid.

SNOW: All right, all right. Michelle, Mr Hernandez, thank you both.

HERNANDEZ: Merry Christmas to Michelle.

SNOW: All right.

posted: Wed - December 22, 2004 at 09:06 PM       j$p  send