Sep 032016
 
  • Report: Dr Drew refused CNN demand to retract Hillary comments.
  • Videos: F&F Weekend‘s goodbye to Anna Kooiman
  • Media Buzz videos: The media the
  • Reliable Sources videos: Media soft on Trump; playing doctor; Glenn Beck.
  • Chris Hayes tweet called anti-Semitic.  What’s bothering Chuck Todd.
  • Greta: This is unfair; why do these haters come out of the woodwork?
  • Your Buzz videos: Hillary; the guests?
  • New Jersey hero: How can HLN call it an error?  Sunday talkers: preview.
  • Borger and Brown discuss their CNN docs with Lindsey EllefsonJoe Concha.
  • Larry Kelly

    “We blurred the logo and shouldn’t have; it was done in error,”
    Don’t know about you, but I want to know more.

  • Larry Kelly

    This coming election will reveal whether the antichrist is a boy or a girl.

    • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

      Shave their heads and see who has “666” on it.

      • Larry Kelly

        Trump’s is almost see through.

  • Larry Kelly

    “Insulting you give us American Rice‼️🔪🈸🈶🎎☠⛩🔪🉐🈲🚷🈯️✳️⚠️⚠️🔪☠”
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-g20-china-hangzhou-usa-idUSKCN1190AT

    • gcblues

      glad i am not 14

      • Larry Kelly

        I hated 14.

        • gcblues

          yeah, i only feared the lottery back then.

        • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

          14 beats 64.

    • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

      Had Obama any balls when dealing with insulting foreign officials, he would’ve ordered everyone back on the planes and threatened to leave. The Chinese would’ve arrested Mr. “Our Country, Our Airport” so fast that it would’ve made his head spin.

      • Larry Kelly

        I’m sure it was planned. See if we’d blink. We did. What else is new.

  • Larry Kelly

    You know what’s bothering me, Chuck? It’s that the FBI waited to dump the documents on Friday night of Labor Day weekend. Obama Admin. pull that old trick, sure. But it makes it look like the FBI is going out of its way to protect Clinton. Guess they are. Wish another FBI “Deep Throat” was lurking in a D.C. parking garage.

    • gcblues

      my dad was a GS13 in the USDA. made me promise to never work for the govt ever. gave me Thoreau, Paine, Ayn, he learned to hate it. our neighbor spent years abolishing his job as unneeded. it took years, he got retirement with full pay and benefits and i remember him telling dad that it would save a lot of money for taxpayers.

      so in answer to your question, what you think they work on monday mornings? i can honestly believe there are 1000s of memos speaking of material disclosures being best done on fridays along with a list of dozens of other gem ideas. the structure is alien to humans because all of the normal human incentives have been removed and replaced. they ain’t human man.
      remember when we first read catch 22 or watched MASH. well, they were accurate.

      • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

        I have a lot of dreams about fish.

        • gcblues

          lol.

        • gcblues

          u know we go hahahahaha. but the incompetence was so really deadly. i mean the insane screw ups. if people knew the extent of friendly fire that existed, or the real numbers of ww2, Korea, Vietnam they would not be able to handle it. not to mention insanely contradictory ROEs. supply/transport snafu, etc etc. well, it is like any govt branch in the USA is run any better?

          • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

            The more accurate weapons have become, the fewer friendly fire incidents. However, that is one of the tragedies of war. But there is no excuse for the restrictive ROE that make it difficult to defeat the enemy. Of course, that is the last thing this president wants to do.

          • gcblues

            indeed so we don’t kill hundreds in 1 artillery barrage like in the Normandy breakout, but the self interest bureaucratic chain of command pecking order, game playing, contradiction cya stays. just like the DMV and local school. for context it was the response as to why we have repeated doc drops on fridays.

          • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

            Those doc drops on Fridays are simply to cover up for Clinton and Obama. The idea is that most news outlets will bury it and the people won’t notice.

      • Larry Kelly

        I’m referring to a Friday document dump on a vacation weekend when J.Q.Public is preoccupied, and damaging news is thus marginalized.

        • gcblues

          well yeeaah. it is how govt employees are wired. gov of oregon had to resign. just the way they all roll.

        • Michael T

          I think it was the group The Animals who sang the lyrics:
          I’m just a soul whose intentions are good
          Oh Lord, please don’t let me be misunderstood

          He seems to have totally missed what your point was.

          • Cecelia

            He’s saying that the FBI’s behavior in this matter is likely not new or specific to Clinton.

            That as a government entity it’s likely the FBI has had policy recommending Friday as a designated day for releasing info, because that what govt agencies do. They reflexively devise mechanisms that protect govt and its aegis.

            Or sumpthin.

          • gcblues

            or sumptin,
            frankly some things are not up to the FBI or SCOTUS. if we are going to Hades put it to a vote. she wins we deserve it.

          • Cecelia

            The things that are up to the FBI should be done in a nonpartisan manner.

          • gcblues

            he would have indicted a republican ex sec of state candidate for president? i do not think so.

          • Cecelia

            Goodness, yes, he would have. The drumbeat for him doing thatwould have been deafening.

          • gcblues

            nice to see you wrong once in awhile. he did the right thing. left it to the electorate to slit their collective wrists.

          • Cecelia

            I know it wasn’t Comey’s job per se to recommend a criminal prosecution, and I certainly know that his job isn’t what you just described.

          • Michael T

            That should be an interesting relationship if Clinton wins.

            Comey’s tenure runs for 10 years ending in 2023.

          • gcblues

            he should have let the announcement come from the DOJ aka, norm, however better he did it as he is less tainted. result, and you know i am no odummy supporter, he did it because it was the correct thing to do. governments around the world know every politicians break laws, democratic republics allow the electorate to decide which criminals stay in office, banana republics prosecute, impeach, make deals, provide for “mansion arrest”, any scheme you can imagine. play in the dirt, you get dirty. he was keeping it as clean as it was gonna get. if you think she is a crook worth prosecuting, vote for the other crook.

          • Larry Kelly

            Well stated. You sometimes get me to question my thinking… when I understand what you’re saying. That’s what makes a bolg’s comment section fun rather than just point/counterpoint.

          • gcblues

            ty

          • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

            No, he didn’t do the right thing. Not only did Madame go out of her way to “mishandle” classified documents, but she was running a pay-for-play sceme, taking bribes thru the money-laundering foundation. Anyone else would be facing serious prison time.

          • Larry Kelly

            We aspire to be a country of laws, not men. At least I do.

          • gcblues

            everyone has aspirations. it is also our nature. people make the laws, in this case, the law will be decided in Nov. have fun.

    • Cecelia

      Too many cameras nowadays and too many examples of ending up dead.

    • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

      The Clintons already had a “Deep Throat,” her name was Monica.

  • Mr Freeze after Fox News tweeted Hillary’s Fav/Unfav ratings:

    Fair and Balanced FOX did not Tweet the results for Trump from same poll.

    Favorable 35% Unfavorable 63%

    Newshounds caught in another lie.

    • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

      Everybody needs a hobby. The Stooges have two, lying and insulting.

      • Son of Blackflon

        The Stooges could possibly be sued for punitive damages 🤔🤔🤔

        • Larry Kelly

          One of the three threatened to sue a sometimes poster here and a regular ICN commenter. Hint: had the best birthday ever.

    • Larry Kelly

      Some day they will invent shame, but for now, that’s not a troubling factor nor a course corrector.

  • Michael T

    Which should give people more pause (if any) about their ability to cover both candidates fairly?

    What (or who’s) behind Door #1 or who’s behind Door #2?

    Door #1
    George Stephanopoulos making charitable donations ($75K over 3 yrs) to the Clinton Foundation.

    OR

    Door #2
    Chris Wallace saying, “Roger Ailes is the best boss I’ve had in almost a half a century in journalism. I admired him tremendously professionally, and loved him personally.”

    I think I’ll pick who’s behind Door #1 even though Stephanopoulos has said, “It was a mistake not to disclose this publicly and I made charitable donations to support the work they’re doing on global AIDS prevention and deforestation, causes I care about deeply.”

    I do disagree with Greta’s hyperbole however. This suspicion by those on the left is not, “The dumbest and most unfair thing to say about Chris Wallace.”

    I just don’t think after the debate is over anyone will think that was the case. As we saw in a comment here yesterday some on the right are already questioning the ability of Martha Raddatz to be totally neutral.

    Love it or hate it, bias paranoia seems only ‘natural’ with so much at stake.

    Your thoughts? (And I promise not to disagree. LOL.)

    • Grandpa D

      I agree, more pause to Door #1. Giving money to a candidate D’s foundation is a few more degrees closer to the candidate than praising your boss who used to work for a candidate R’s party.

    • GATXER

      I go with #1 also…….but let’s NOT forget that Stephanopoulos WORKED for Clinton when he was in the WH…….big difference from working for a guy who worked for Nixon in the early 1970’s.

      Without Stephanopoulos working for the Clinton WH he wouldn’t have that ABC job…..he owes them something BIG………I don’t think Wallace owes Trump or a family member for his job or anything else.

      • Michael T

        “Without Stephanopoulos working for the Clinton WH he wouldn’t have that ABC job…..he owes them something BIG….”

        That is certainly one reasonable inference one could make and I suspect many have.

        Although back in 1999 the LA Times characterized the Stephanopoulos book “All Too Human” as a stinging memoir of the Clinton years. Presumably the Clintons have moved on. But it caused bit of a riff at the time.

        • GATXER

          Yea I would say they have moved on……..I don’t remember that book but I was working 12 hour shifts almost that entire year.

          http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/George-Stephanopoulos-Bill-Clinton-G.png

          I would think it would be hard not to write a memoir of the inside of Clinton years that didnt seem stinging………You know if I could I would vote for EX_President Clinton this year……..not a popular idea here…….but I just can’t vote for HRC ….while I don’t dislike her as much as I do Trump by any means……….she no more qualified than he is……..and she would be a danger to the nation also…..maybe more than Trump. I’m glad I live in a country that allows me NOT to vote if I don’t want to.

        • Larry Kelly

          I believe his writing of the book while his boss was still in office was a bit of a first and considered bad form.

          • gcblues

            made bank. next.

          • Larry Kelly

            I’m sure your shorthand always makes sense to you.

          • gcblues

            made bank=got the check=got paid====

          • Larry Kelly

            ty

          • Larry Kelly
          • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

            I wonder who will ghostwrite those books?

          • Grandpa D

            “Will Bill Ayers write Obama’s post-presidency book as well? ”
            h/t @MartyDavis

          • gcblues

            in about 12 or 13 lifetimes maybe.

          • Michael T

            It amazes me the book industry continues to thrive. My ex-wife is a big reader of eBooks from Amazon. But not me.

            There was a funny line in the movie “Big Chill” from a character who wrote for a magazine like People and was embarrassed about it. He apologetically joked, “I write articles short enough to read during your average time sitting on the toilet.” (He may have said “your average dump.”)

            Anyway it was funny and It was supposed to make fun of that type of writing.

            Not a joke for me. I’m much too busy for books. There are just too many other fun things to do.

            That 500 word People magazine article is right up my alley…short and sweet.

            I read a book about once every 30-40 years, whether I need to or not. (“The Godfather” almost 50 years ago followed years later by “Game Change.”)

          • Larry Kelly

            Survey yesterday showed people given a choice of a free read still prefer books over ebooks.
            I’ve read both “Godfather” and “Game Change.” John Edwards could have been in both.

          • Michael T

            Yeah, kind of reminds of another book by Scott McClellan in the last year of the Bush Administration where he accused Bush of “self-deception” and of maintaining a “permanent campaign approach” to governing rather than making the best choices.

            Only in Scott’s case — no TV show to follow.

          • Larry Kelly

            I believe he is running the carmelcorn machine at a mall in Maryland.

          • Michael T

            So very sad. /sarc

            Probably should have used “Heck of a job Brownie’s agent” instead. At least he got a Denver radio gig out of his little embarrassment.

          • Cecelia

            Good thing all is well in Louisiana now.

            Nobody has to give a shite about who heads FEMA.

    • gcblues

      truth, you cannot be in the Mafia or Political Class without being a criminal. why do dogs bite? it is their nature. criminals organize to commit crime. they commit the crimes that benefit them most. only criminals want to be in the Mafia, Govt or media because they are places where only crimes are committed.

      • Larry Kelly

        My doog does not bite. My township trustee earns my vote by doing stellar work. I love them both.

        • gcblues

          even dogs with no teeth will bite as their first reaction. i am sure you are rewarded well for your your dog’s and township’s love. thank you for illustrating my point.

          • Larry Kelly

            My comment more to our wonderful audience than to you. If it illustrates your point to them, I’d be surprised.

          • gcblues

            lol, gimme gimme gimme. it is all transactional analysis.

  • Michael T

    Re: What’s bothering Chuck Todd

    If true, this is a significant counterpoint to Mr. Todd.

    Someone just commented on Joe Concha’s column by stating,

    “Educate yourself, Chuck—the FBI, as a matter of long-standing policy & practicality, almost never records interviews.”

    Anyone have a link to information which will either confirm or refute what this commenter wrote?

    • Larry Kelly

      I heard that last night on either SPECIAL REPORT ot PBS NEWSHOUR.

    • GATXER

      I heard that last night on Fox News also……seems crazy to me since the local police record shoplifting cases………seems to me if only for historical purposes they should have recorded it and sealed it for 40 years in the smithsonian…………I mean she like the first Nom to be interviewed by the FBI…..that has some historical value I would think.

      • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

        I think they should’ve used a cattle prod to get her to tell the damn truth. Except I don’t think at this point, she even knows the difference between a lie and the truth.

      • gcblues

        c above

    • gcblues

      1. what is google for? i typed does the FBI record interviews the skinny popped right up.
      http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/so-why-the-heck-wasnt-hillary-clintons-fbi-interview-recorded/
      2. no oath is administered because it is illegal to lie to a Fed whether you take oath or not, everyone knows that.

  • Cecelia

    Re: Chris Hayes tweet called anti-Semitic.

    That position is not inherently anti-Semitic and it was a joke, man…

  • Saintsfan720

    Watching “Greg Gutfeld Show” after the LSU football debacle earlier. At first, kind of annoyed by audience booing Democratic guests. But, then remembered the audiences on shows like “The View” and “The Daily Show” . Am about 98% over it.

  • gcblues
    • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

      Página no encontrada

      • gcblues
        • gcblues

          both worked for me

        • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

          That worked, thanks. This nonsense is disgusting. Somalia? That is working out really well in places like Minnesota.

          • gcblues

            every region of the world needs people from other parts. make it close to impossible to to do legally you either get the worst illegally or no one like Japan. not working out for those countries, wide open not working for europe, rejecting 99% of expensive applicants not working for USA. everyone dealing with emotions not practicality so you get this crazy stuff. funny thing is Muslim Africans and sick dangerous Haitians have been using the route for years, follow illness paths, and you are just hearing about it because some big mouth insists on posting it repeatedly. too absorbed in who is popular, crazy statements who is banging who, lies, useless studies, investigations and debt debt debt. nuts.

  • gcblues

    i am no stelter/beck fan, but beck poses a very good point. paraphrase, “no one is talking about what is going to happen after this election and that is what we should be talking about”. scary good point.

  • Larry Kelly
    • Cecelia

      Soros has evolved since then.

      • Larry Kelly

        Core principles are the final casualty of politics.

    • gcblues

      no, it is just too much emphasis on what people do not want and not enough emphasis on what is needed overall. everywhere needs new people. the question is how to sift to get the best for the future instead we get the worst and pay the worst citizens we already have to reproduce and studies show earners decreasing reproduction. no good end with just closing a border or throwing out feriners.

      • Larry Kelly

        When Trump says it, it’s “hate speech”. Hate speech, hate speech this I know, for the media tells me so.

      • Cecelia

        Maybe it’s easier to have 5000 Muslim men transported into your town when the LEOs carry AKs.

        • gcblues

          the idea is to set up a system that gets you the results you need. keeping the people out you describe is part of it, the jingoism about “the law” does not function getting the positive result the society needs to sustain itself. your consistent distortion does not help your argument.

          • Cecelia

            It’s your distortion. You’ve said nothing till now that you want anything resembling a “process”.

            On the other hand, I’ve said I have nothing against immigration for anyone as long as they are processed.

    • Michael T

      Didn’t know the phrase “illegal aliens” was ever used by the Left. Interesting.

      Now hardly anyone uses it other than some conservative politicians, Bill O’Reilly and a few others who are familiar names and faces.

      • Larry Kelly

        Well, political correctness aside, illegal they are. George Orwell’s “newspeak” coined over a half century ago shows the power of renaming a “spade” a “heart”. You dig a hole with the former, but love with the later. What you’re referring to however, still is what it is. A womans’s right to chose still is a dead fetus. Someone present in the country unlawfully is illegal. My dog is undocumented. She has no papers.

        • Michael T

          I guess the beef from some on the Left is that the term is too broad and is often used to also include children born in the United States to illegal alien parents. The children are U.S. citizens. Thus they prefer “undocumented immigrants.”

          Don’t know enough to defend that position, but that’s what I heard argued on The O’Reilly Factor.

          • Larry Kelly

            Well, let’s just throw out the term altogether… or let’s not.

          • Michael T

            I’m the wrong person to debate this issue having lived for 40 years 20 miles from the border in a city (San Diego) which is almost a third Latino, Hispanic or Mexican-American — whichever is preferred now. It’s hard to keep up.

            I see them (both documented and undocumented) as warm, friendly, mostly Christian, very hardworking and more family oriented than most Caucasians I know. They really know how to throw a picnic. The local parks and beaches are filled with mostly Mexican families on the weekends.

            Love their food (as does just about everyone)…their music…not so much.

          • gcblues

            i’m with the illegals. my family entered the usa that way. most of the world moves across borders in defiance of the law. right on! liberty for all! unless you are a deadbeat, crook or lefty.

      • GATXER

        Actually the US government still uses it………people started using undocumented because some on the far left decided it was a insult…..most countries still use illegal to describe people who are not legally in the country.

        https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/immigration-terms-and-definitions-involving-aliens

        Illegal Alien
        Also known as an “Undocumented Alien,” is an alien who has entered the United States illegally and is deportable if apprehended, or an alien who entered the United States legally but who has fallen “out of status” and is deportable.

        • Michael T

          “People started using undocumented because some on the far left decided it was a insult.”

          It’s not just people on the far left anymore. In March the American Library Association decided the term had become a pejorative in recent times and adopted a resolution to replace it with “undocumented immigrants.” Although some in Congress fought the idea and may have succeeded.

          Even some in the print media are making the change. Back in 2013 ABC News reported:

          Amid recent controversy, a few major news-gathering organizations like the Los Angeles Times and The Associated Press have announced they’d no longer use the term “illegal immigrant” because it labels people rather than their behavior.

          Which is kind of weird since ABC News has a category on one of their web pages named “Illegal Aliens.” Go figure.
          http://abcnews.go.com/topics/news/immigration/

      • Cecelia

        Squirrel!

        • Michael T

          Rabbit, chicken, fox…

          Feel free to chime in anyone and enlighten us as to what this dialogue means. 🙂

          • Cecelia

            I suspect that the only “we” who might pretend that it needs decoding in this instance, is you and the rodent in your pocket.

            A treatise on illegal vs undocumented semantics has nothing to with the gist of presenting Clinton’s remarks as a contrast in how a very commonsensical notion has morphed into the pinacle of racism all because of the current strategy of ethnic gerrymandering.

          • Michael T

            Squirrel!

            (You knew that was coming, didn’t you?)

          • Cecelia

            No. I’d assumed that Larry didn’t need decoding for you too.

          • Larry Kelly

            I have this ring to decode messages I obtained for three ovaltine lids and a dollar.

          • I already know what is says: “Drink Ovaltine”

          • Larry Kelly

            For some reason that’s what it claims Michael said?

          • Cecelia

            That’s absurd logic. The post you were responding to mentioned Clinton.

            It was about Clinton voicing a prefrence for policies that are similar to Trump’s though he is widely vilified for them.

            You ignored that by making it a matter a pejorative semantics rather than policy.

          • Michael T

            It also mention Al Giore and welfare benefits,

            Would you lke to comment on them as well?

            Bad nights sleep, Cece?

            You don’t seem as mentally sharp today for some reason.

          • Cecelia

            Did you comment on Al Gore and welfare benefits in your posts?

            Did you make any reference as to how such policies lauded then are now racist?

          • Michael T

            I’m done.

            Go engage another commenter in one of your endless arguments.

            I’m here to discuss — not argue about petty issues and fact-free arguments you make after distorting my comments.

          • Cecelia

            You can pretend that Pres. Clinton’s comments as to illegals are not germane now. You can avoid it by pointing to the petty semantics of undocumented vs illegal, etc…which you did…

            You can try very hard to avoid asking what has changed in the notion of abiding by existing immigration law between then and now.

            You can accuse me of making a specious argument about a post that was linked in order to draw the exact contrast I’m pointing out.

            You werent discussing. You were deflecting.

          • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

            And the damn Germans still have nothing to do with it.

  • Larry Kelly

    Wish everyone in the country could/would watch Sharyl Attkisson’s FULL MEASURE today on the deceit used to pass OBAMACARE. Even if the fraud is familiar to you, the refresher will boil your blood. That, and a reminder that the “Cadillac Tax” to of $200 billion by taxing employer paid healt plans by 40% is still out there (though now delayed by Congress until 2020).

    • gcblues

      on list.

  • Larry Kelly
    • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

      He should avoid parks.

      • Larry Kelly

        and be suspicious of a new mailman.

  • Cecelia

    This is hilarious and sad at once.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4SZqiXDfHnI

  • gcblues

    fun, bit of rain. wouldn’t tweet. turn up the sound…lol.
    https://www.facebook.com/100010466951295/videos/307981596227403/

  • Michael T

    So what do y’all think Donald Trump’s policy is now regarding mass deportation of the approximately 11M non-criminal illegal immigrants?

    He and his surrogates seem to be dancing (or tiptoeing) around the issue trying not to alienate core supporters or Hispanics. Not an easy needle to thread, I might add.

    My take (reading between the lines) after watching partial interviews with Kellyanne, Giuliani and Pence is that after we secure the burder we’ll see where we are.

    This seems like somewhat of a softening — but perhaps not. (Unlike the spokespeople I cited I believe has said “after we build the wall” — so “after we secure the border” sounds like a modification of what was said earlier.)

    What’s your take? And what is Clinton’s take om illegal immigration as she tries to appeal to white blue collar workers in battleground states? A delicate “win some, lose some” issue for both sides it seems to me.

    • Cecelia

      It’s impossible. We need an amnesty process for people who have been here and abided by the law for a designated number of years.

      From hereafter, we follow existing law or we change the laws.

      • I think amnesty for those presently here would be OK with the large majority of people. What would not be OK with them is citizenship for people who entered the country dishonorably. I think it’s a bridge too far for many people, and they end up opposing legal status for those here now because they’re convinced the politicians will, sooner or later, convert it to full-blown voting citizenship.

        • Michael T

          I think that’s true regarding legal status as opposed to citizenship.

          Some on the right fear a slippery slope toward citizenship.

          Some on the left argue that anything less than citizenship still leaves them as second class citizens.

          Perhaps both of these factions need to realize the process may require some compromises — a ‘dirty word’ in some circles.

          • No, they wouldn’t be second class citizens. They wouldn’t be citizens at all! I don’t think America should have levels and gradations of citizenship. Either you is, or you ain’t.

          • Michael T

            Hard for me to tell what the “leaves them as second class citizens” is really arguing. Is it only about rights — or is it also about status.

            Years ago some of my very smart fellow software engineer co-workers from India with their fancy graduate degrees (Haha) used to claim they would always be “looked upon as second class citizens.”

            Since they were already citizens, I believe it was used more like a reference to standing in the community than a literal reference to actual “citizenship.”

          • Cecelia

            I think it means they’d need a green card.

          • GATXER

            They could change things tomorrow….give the 11 million legal status but they can NEVER vote or get Federal welfare till they get in line and become a regular citizens the real legal way………..but Democrats want those votes so it would never get a vote in the Senate.

          • gcblues

            clearly. however a country run only by it’s citizens without new blood dies out. there are examples of countries dying from xenophobia and there is a waft of it throughout the world on views couched in nationalism, populism, usfirstism …. and on. a carburator needs an optimum mix.

        • gcblues

          i think the word you are looking for is “residency”. Most countries make the citizenship part hard and define various classes of residency. pensionor. student, renter rich guy, all non-working non-voting not eligible for benefits. i have never heard of a country that does not have some form of residency allowing work, we seem to call that a green card. most countries whose laws i have seen also vary the validity time. 1yr, 5, permanent for example.
          i would like to see shopping visas, plane change visas, and short stay tourist with RFDI tags added to their passport be very easy. walmart tracks their inventory surely an arrangement can be made.

      • Michael T

        People can debate whether to call it “amnesty” — but what you suggested makes sense to me.

        Even though there’s a risk of alienating some in his base. The majority of a large audience at a recent Trump town hall with Hannity loudly booed this solution.

        • Cecelia

          That Trump’s stand was orginally stricter was implied in your use of the word “softening”.

          That’s there’s something in between open borders and deporting everyone was what you seemed to be asking about in your question.

          • Michael T

            “That’s there’s something in between open borders and deporting everyone was what you seemed to be asking about in your question.”

            I didn’t mean to leave that impression. Mostly I was referring to new talk from the campaign about who would and would not be deported.

            BTW, I can’t find any evidence Trump ever stated a specific timetable. So no softening there.

            But many are now asking if there’s been other types of softening. Not based on a more clearly defined timetable for mass deportation — but based on headlines like this one.

            “Trump retreats from vow to deport all living in US illegally”
            https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-retreats-from-vow-to-deport-all-living-in-us-illegally/2016/09/01/3d031396-7013-11e6-993f-73c693a89820_story.html

            BTW, Giuliani told Jake Tapper, “What he said in the speech is, after we secure the border and after we remove the criminal illegal immigrants to a large extent — you’re never going to get to 100%— then and only then can we look at this in a very rational way in which we can look at all the options and be open to all the options.”

            The former mayor added that “Trump wouldn’t separate families.”

          • Cecelia

            I guess the answer to your question then is that it depends on who he is talking to.

          • Michael T

            Actually the answer I was looking for was how the right was covering this by posing a question to those here who might have had Fox News on today. (See more on this below.)

            It apparently depends on which TV network or channel website you visit. But isn’t that SOP. 🙂

            For example, there was criticism on Fox News of the MSM for less coverage of the FBI releasing the Clinton email report than what some had expected.

            Now some could argue the opposite is taking place. Both ABC News and CNN have the featured story on the main page of their websites about whether Trump’s positions have changed on either the border wall or mass deportation.

            But over at Fox News as far as I can tell this is not covered on their main page.

            Aren’t we all glad we have (since 1996) channels representing all sides — or ostensibly all sides?

          • Cecelia

            Goodness, yes. There’s at least one channel that understood that everyone predicted that Trump would soften on immigration.

            I dare say none of them predicted that HRC would cop to a faulty memory 26 times, blame her brain injury for a lot of that, and have 15 devices smashed to bits in just one more means of avoiding FOIA.

          • Michael T

            If “everyone predicted” it sure seems like Fox News is the only one who got their memo.

            The rest of the media is treating this as an unexpected change with an emphasis on surrogates turning themselves into pretzels trying to navigate changes so they don’t alienate core supporters. This last part was not on anyone’s radar screen that I am aware of.

            I know you’re a big Fox News defender but I would suggested a more open-minded look.

          • Cecelia

            It was predicted and expected that Trump must and would back off or soften in some way a plan to deport millions of people.

            Just as it was predicted that there would be no way that everyone could keep their doctor prior to getting coverage under the ACA (any more than they could keep all the same providers if they change employers), and that closing Guantanamo would be far more problematic than the president suggested when campaigning.

            The “shocked!” airs you see after these things are all part of the process of partisans trying to exact as much blood from these maneuvers as possible.

          • Michael T

            Nice try Cece.

            No one is buying the “it was predicted” excuse.

            Are you checking news website and TV channels other than Fox News?

          • Cecelia

            How is it an “excuse” when Trump softening on deportings people is both news that was predicted and news that has been opined upon all of August?

            It’s not okay for Fox to feature the “new” news of the startling revelations in the FBI release of Clinton emails?

          • Michael T

            We seldom agree and this is no exception. 😊

            As Johnny said (to me) the other day when we had reached a bit of a stalemate, “Peace out.”

          • Cecelia

            Concha predicted it.

          • Michael T

            No one predicted the type of squirming and clever word games we’ve seen from the Trump campaign over the last three weeks. Especially in the last week.

            Take off you blinders as a Fox News and Trump defender and open your eyes. Jeez.

          • Cecelia

            Yes, they did. Mind you, I hope the media isn’t pulling out the notion that he’s being “clever”just to bolster an argument. That he’s been wiggling has been discussed throughout the last month.

            The FBI Clinton emails revelations are hot off the press, albeit unloaded on a holiday weekend.

          • Michael T

            BTW, you must be a huge fan of firebrand Dana Loesch.

            Similar stubborn, dogged, often churlish and scorched earth approach and sensibilities.

          • Cecelia

            Consider that the only thing that has changed since the days that you complimented me, is my pointing out that you’re enabling a drunk.

          • gcblues

            yeah, like everywhere they can qualify for residency if they have a clean police and health record, document ability to pay for your stay and do not work or collect benefits. work application can be separate, and benefits are not allowed. almost every country has stuff like that.

          • GATXER

            Only thing Trumps got going for him is HRC policy which is crazy IMHO……I thought Sanders was to BTW……Trumps is not going to happen of course…..so IMHO it’s a wash.

            HRC was against illegal immigration….till she wasnt…….like a ton of other issues.

            HRC in 2005

            Adamantly against illegal immigrants

            “I am adamantly against illegal immigrants… Clearly, we have to make some tough decisions as a country, and one of them ought to be coming up with a much better entry-and-exit system so that if we’re going to let people in for the work that otherwise would not be done, let’s have a system that keeps track of them.”
            Source: What Every American Should Know, by the ACU, p. 81 , Sep 30, 2005

          • Michael T

            In my circle of family and friends — both Dems & Repubs — they’re also strongly against illegal immigration and would probably not be offended by a stance HRC took back in 2005 even though two in the aforementioned circle (my ex-wife and my 40-something son despise her).

            The debate I was referencing was what are the two sides proposing we do about the 11 million who are already here…and is Trump ‘softening’ any of his immigration positions on the ‘beautiful’ wall or the ’round ’em up, kick ’em out’ mass deportation plan.

  • Larry Kelly

    One thing I hadn’t picked up on until I heard it on MEDIABUZZ was that Hillary Clinton’s people asked the debate commission to not pick anyone from FOX. That was obviously ignored.

    • Grandpa D

      Chris Wallace is doing the last debate on October 19th. What are the odds Clinton is a no-show?

      • Larry Kelly

        Well, it won’t be because of health problems. Even if it is.

    • Michael T

      In media/politcial circles and the debate commission is Chris Wallce more associated with Fox News or Fox broadcast?

      I don’t know the answer, so it was probably rude of me to ask. 😊

      On a personal note I am rather enjoying my last Sunday in 2016 without NFL football. It’s been very relaxing knowing my San Diego Chargers won’t lose a game today.

      • Larry Kelly

        A distinction without a difference but to head-of-a-pin dancers, and those who only get their TV channels via rabbit ears.
        Q. “When you think of FOX do you think of Chris Wallace or GOTHAM?
        A. “What the F*** are you talkin’ about?”

        • Michael T

          Haha!

          When I think of FOX I think of former and current ratings behemoths American Idol and Sunday NFL Football.

          No one can accuse me of not being a front runner.

          • sky303

            When I think of It I think of my local station that has watchable local news. and happens to have Fox Programming on it. and The Simpsons .

    • Cecelia

      Good grief. She’ll only do tightly controlled interviews rather than press conferences and she doesn’t want to talk to anyone from Fox.

      Just call her Empress.

      • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

        As in The Real Royal?

        • Cecelia

          He’s just her footman.

          • Larry Kelly

            Empties the chamber pot.

          • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

            On his head?

          • Michael T

            Good one. Zing!!!

    • Mitch Alan

      Chris Wallace is really from NBC and ABC, not Fox. And he is center-left, not conservative.

      • Larry Kelly

        He’s spent the last thirteen years at FOX. He fights too often with Shep to be center Left. Seems center center to me.
        About Chris:
        http://www.foxnews.com/person/w/chris-wallace.html

        • gcblues

          people have weird ideas about where they and others are in the left right spectrum. MT calls himself a centrist and looks to polling for proof while stuff he supports was mostly left agenda. plus, while the left is fairly unified in their agenda. the split on the right between fascist, nationalist, populist patriot right and libertarian small gov, end the social welfare, govt is the problem right muddles the mess. so it gets tough trying to peg people on the spectrum. mostly they are talking about themselves not the people they are labeling.

          • Michael T

            Listen, all I was saying was that many issues those on the right (especially NRA members and those conservatives in Congress) oppose have majority support in the polling data (including from me).

            Even some of those on the right who may not strongly oppose, certainly aren’t active supporters.

            67% Of Americans support the legalization of same sex marriage.
            60% Say the government should continue to fund Planned Parenthood.
            63% Pro choice
            79% Employers should be required to pay men and women the same salary for the same job.
            82% People on the “no-fly list” should be banned from purchasing guns and ammunition.
            89% Favor birth control
            90% Think birth control information should be available to anyone who wants it.
            57% Of Americans support a ban on assault weapons.
            65% Favor stem cell research

            Pretty evenly split on these two:
            48%-52% There should be more restrictions on the current process of purchasing a gun.
            50-50 Latest poll (from PPP) on Obamacare

            Admittedly, some polling data also suggests the majority favors some issues those on the right favor.
            73% All welfare recipients be tested for drugs.
            63% Oppose Common Core national standards
            73% All welfare recipients should be tested for drugs.
            Also, support for the death penalty, school vouchers and the Keystone Pipeline.

          • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

            Also quiotes from polls run by PPP. another Soros funded operation.

          • Michael T

            Oh c’mon. They are not near the outlier that Rasmussen Reports is.

            For example, in the last presidential election PPP ranked in the middle of the pack because they had Romney’s final total 1.6% too high.

            YES THEY OVER PREDICTED ROMNEY.

            Yet Rasmussen finished 4th from the bottom and Gallup was in the cellar over polling Romney by almost 8%.

            LA Times/USC is another pollster that has been a really bad outlier lately, while PPP’s results are similar to what other polls are showing about the TRUMP-CLINTON race.

          • gcblues

            actually i thought i had read that when PPP opened they based their system on Rasmussen which had quite a successful run before dumping. there is a diff between polls that measure behavior past tense, behavior future tense, attitude, idea phrasing….abortion polls are all crap, and you want to mix them all up to point to prove some position or another i do not understand and you are using material collectively that is unable to prove anything at all. until the other day i had no idea about some of your positions you always seemed to post about some specific item not an agenda. the other day you listed ideas as mainstream that seem to me that where pure bernie positions which many complain are too far to the right. i think here in this room we are mostly cynical old duds obsessed with our own damn idea of how the world should turn. gax claims to be a blazing lefty, i have not seen any heat thrown at him because of his political beliefs. certainly i am no mainstreamer. btw, a lot of polling you cite is blatant push polling. guns, abortion, etc are all worded to push a political point into getting people to believe a majority exists when it does not. running obamacare polls worded so you know the result and then having them released to the media is a very old tired game.

          • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

            I am against abortion. However, I have met people that we would all be better off had their mothers had one.

            Me and my mouth. Now I have to go to confession again.

          • gcblues

            yes you do, as a rational atheist i depend on others to logically conclude taking an innocent life contradicts the basic agreement human beings must have among themselves to survive. use any means necessary to achieve that . confess!. lol

          • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

            Our priest knows that is about as bad as I get.

          • gcblues

            i have a friend that is a Catholic priest, Chemi, Father Jose. he is now past 70 and they give him less to do so he comes here and drinks my stock and bores the kids. he would do anything for anyone but he is kinda sad. he loves alcohol and books. lol

          • Michael T

            If you want to get in the weeds and criticize a polster that’s fine.

            I just choose not to go there.

          • gcblues

            i do not know gax i was citing his words, and you are missing what i am saying. i am not calling polling companies better or worse. i am saying the conclusions you draw from the polls do not support the reality of what people do, say, think, intend etc. they can barely predict elections and you want them to determine the aggregate of the public’s human heart. you citing polls that say “people believe….” does not equate with what people actually believe. any pollster can get to the nth degree what he needs on abortion, gun rights etc type polls with simple wording changes. both sides do it. it is weak implicative evidence at it’s best.

          • GATXER

            Whoa kind sir…. ….I dont consider myself a former Democrat…..I haven’t seen the general election ballot yet but my guess is I will be voting for @99% of the Democrats on it……I still post about media at Kos and i’m thinking of going back Full time AFTER Nov…….I’ll be attending the local Democratic party social here in a few weeks and Ive been told……but not officially that I will be the Democratic Judge once again at the polls at the local high school……..which since the Local Democratic “bosses” pick…..means that they think i’m still a Democrat……and YES Ive told them why I won’t be voting for HRC. You need to stop listening to the stooges.

            As for the “black Conservatives” on FOX……..I dont like Clarke or Carson and can’t think of much if anything I can say I agree with them on……….I defend them from what I see as unfair racist attacks from the stooges……….that doesn’t mean I like them…….and yes if you target Black people …..you might be a racist.

            Ive been a Democrat my whole life and I always will be……that doesn’t mean I vote for each and everyone……I’m a person NOT a drone…….only A dry drunk would think Ive been pretending to be a Democrat here and other places for over 10 long years.

            All i’ve really said about polling this year is….I dont think they will be as right as normal…..2 many people like my room mate who would never be polled ……….. registered to vote for the first time just so he can vote for Trump…..I expect the rest of his ballot will be left blank……….normally I trust polling…..in fact I visit a web site every week that list pols on all types of subjects.

          • gcblues

            “normally I trust polling…..in fact”
            in fact the biggest qualitative difference between polls is not the firm, the methodology or the designers but the question polled. exit polls, voting polls are not the same as the psychographic pictures attitude polling tries to draw. trying to characterize people or countries with psychographic polling has been tried, tried and Motried by ad buyers for all the years i know about and had zip success in predicting behavior, i.e. reality.

          • Michael T

            Okay. Obviously you have every right to state your political leanings.

            But I hope you are not suggesting it is unreasonable for anyone to say about someone who seems to never criticize Fox News — even defends them by taking on their critics — that they (in my best Jeff Foxworthy voice) MIGHT NOT BE A DEMOCRAT.

            Cheers buddy.

          • gcblues

            why? democrats not allowed to think? gax points out when the left media is full of it, he does not need to do that to FNC because there are legions of those critics. legions!. seems to me he has supported dem goals and thinks the dem politicians are trash. i can say that about republicans and i am still a con. the trend i see is more and more people hating the political class, biz,pols,media, but not giving up on their ideas of utopian socialism or nationalism, or libertarianism.

          • Michael T

            So the reason he doesn’t criticize Fox News is because Fox News already has “legions of critics?”

            Got it.

          • gcblues

            i have seen negative things by him about FNC, man, you need some fiber, this is all too serious. nothing in here is other than just good natured banter. i do not see him, me or larry or nixon needing to score points.
            you know polling is interesting but we are not paying the freight for it so why try to extract more from it than it is good for. i still think most of the payees of qualitative public polls are designed to push not measure.

          • Michael T

            “I have seen negative things by him about FNC, man.”

            As Mr. Bill is fond of saying to his guests, “Name one.”

            Let it go dude…you’re embarrassing yourself.

          • gcblues

            no Michael i am not. in no way would a centered human wade through old posts in a cable blog.

          • Michael T

            And even if you found 2 or 3 examples this would not refute the fact that he is one of the top defenders of Fox News hosts, co-hosts and guests (especially if they’re African American) at J$P.

          • GATXER

            Well lets see……Ive said many times here…….again just last week….that Hannity doesn’t belong on ANY news network..and Fox News should be ashamed to have him on…….I said the same thing about Beck here and at ICN…..I dont think Kurtz is hard enough on Fox News……just as he wasn’t on CNN when he was there……..I think Fox News makes mistakes in its hiring of contributors and have said so…..IE: Newt……..Scott Brown………I thought Huckabee’s show was a joke…….but no more a joke than other shows on CNN on the weekends or Lockup on MSNBC.and those are just off the top of my head.

            I dont mind people saying that they dont think I’m a Democrat…….they are idiots but I dont mind…..its when people who DIDN’T vote for OBAMA but a third party do it that I have to laugh.

            BTW: I also defend things on MSNBC and CNN….sometimes here and sometimes at other places….KOS for one. I defend Fox News here…..because…..wait for it……OH thats right this is a blog that deals with mainly FOX NEWS!

            I defend the AA hosts and guest on Fox News from unfair racist attacks….and if you READ what I said…..I dont defend what they say as much I do the laughable attempts at attacking them by racists…………Can you name one time Ive stood up for one for what they said or agreed with one?…….me saying I dont think Harris is a “Trumper” is not defending her…..it common sense………otherwise I dont talk about them much……if the disgraced stooges started to target AA on MSNBC or CNN I would do the same thing.

            I think you need to really look at my posts……….you’re embarrassing yourself…..as if being friends with the disgraced racist stooges wasn’t enough to do that.

          • Michael T

            “.if the disgraced stooges started to target AA on MSNBC or CNN I would do the same thing.”

            This is simply not born out by the evidence, counselor.

            Let me introduce into evidence where Ice refers to pro Trump A-A Pastor Burns as a liar.
            https://twitter.com/IceManNYR/status/773292014620315648

            Ice was referring to the black Pastor Burns who embarrassed himself on CNN.
            http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/03/politics/mark-burns-donald-trump-interview/

            Why not own it my friend? On numerous occasions you have defended Fox News hosts, co-hosts and guests. Something totally unexpected from any Democrat.

            But if you want to call yourself a Dem, as I have already said this is your right.

          • GATXER

            OH….he did it once…..when he spends a whole day just attacking black guest and hosts I will take notice……..that’s what it took for me to notice what he was doing with Fox News. Till I noticed a pattern i didnt say anything…..and then only when I was sure.

            Surely you aren’t saying that he attacks Black host and guests on CNN or MSNBC in any way that he does Fox News???????.

            BUT….I guarantee if he does….I will bring it up here as just more proof that what he’s doing is exactly what Ive said………I dont see how you could doubt that…..it just helps my case……not that it’s not clear already.

          • Michael T

            Nobody believes you man. For God’s sake let it go.

            You’re on a Fox News blog. Wear your defense of a channel you repeatedly call “#1 rated Fox News” with pride and quit trying to pretend you’re NOT a Fox News defender.

          • GATXER

            You just dont get it do you……….the only place I type #1 Fox News is here because it makes the disgraced stooges nuts.

            Thanks for calling me a liar……..I promote you to stooge status……….your jacket will be in the mail in 6 to 8 weeks…….GOODBYE.

            Feel free to defend the racist stooges…..it just makes you look like a fool. Seems to me that you should be voting for Trump…….you have a lot in common.

            #laughingstocks

          • Michael T

            As long as your happy in your alternate universe who am I to judge. 🙂

          • GATXER

            Absolutely NOBODY.

          • Cecelia

            Well, you’ve tried to judge Nixon in the same manner.

          • Cecelia

            I’m not sure if he is actually the only human alive who can’t ascertain that you like FNC a lot less than you dislike those guys, but he’s likely #2.

          • Michael T

            It’s pointless with you Gatxer.

            Any “Democrat” who can’t tell that Harris is a full-on Trump supporter is lying about EVERYTHING and can’t be reasoned with.

          • GATXER

            WOW….please tell J$ that……I will make the popcorn.

            PLEASE tell J$ hes lying about EVERYTHING………..PLEASE…..otherwise you wouldn’t be much of a man …..now would you.

          • Michael T

            “OH….he did it once.”

            I knew that was coming as you continue your childish diatribe.

            His criticism of Harris has nothing to do with her race. It’s because he and many other don’t think someone used on the weekends as an anchor should be offering her opinions about a candidate on Out#. Same goes for Melissa Francis. Peeps like Joe Concha disagree labeling these two as ‘hybrids’ — to each his/her own. But it’s not about race.

            You should know that Ice also criticized CNN for moving Don Lemon to CNN Tonight yet still using him as an anchor and having Lemon go on CNN’s Newsroom show giving his opinion on issues including those involving race.

          • Michael T

            “me saying I dont think Harris is a “Trumper” is not defending her…..it common sense.”

            Are you really saying right here in front of God and everybody that Harris Faulkner is NOT an unrelenting and unapologetic Trump support?

            Seriously? On what planet?

          • GATXER

            The one where we live and not one where the stooges are not disgraced racists……..I notice you dont attack J$ and he says the same thing I do….couldnt be you dont wasn’t to join MOE on the island could it???????……Harris is a award winning journalist………..I love how you drones know everybody’s who is a “Trumper”……but cant seem to find a Clinton supporter.

            You once seemed pretty reasonable…..but I guess if you spend to much time agreeing with racist stooges…..you get brain rot sooner or later.

          • Michael T

            I never kiss up to Johnny like you do with your silly obsession and constant comments about “stooges”.

            BTW, these so-called “stooges” Joe and Ice are people you cowardly attack from the safety of J$P because you don’t have the courage to confront them on Twitter.

            Johnny and I are close in age and have traveled a lot of ground politically in our lifetimes.

            We treat each other with respect. His views mirror those of one of my brothers as do Larry Kelly’s. I love and respect my bother a Vietnam Marine Corps veteran who later earned a PhD.

            Johnny and I usually avoid engaging each other over topics we have little hope of common ground.

          • GATXER

            So….im a liar about EVERYTHING because I dont think Harris is a Trumper………but J$ says the same thing and hes NOT a liar…..OH I think people can see you for what you are now.

            PLEASE show me just one time “kissing up” to J$……just one……if you cant you have proved yourself to be just another stooges……..the truth doesn’t matter if you get what you want.

            Why would I want to join twitter just so I can talk to racists????or anything else for that matter???? I was here saying these things and ICN for that matter before MOE and ICE were banned……its not my fault they are NUTS and MODs get tired of their BS………I wouldn’t join Myspace to say things just because they were banned everywhere I go. I wont join stromfront to talk to them either.

            You know……..I used to get along with MOE before he went nuts…….we agree politically on most issues……….I love his car……I watch Nascar…….his Fox News hate is what caused the friction and the racist part ended any of it for me.

          • Michael T

            “So….im a liar about EVERYTHING.”

            Either a liar or totally out of touch with reality.

          • GATXER

            Id say what you are but Im a gentleman…..and the island is hot this time of year.. …. I wonder what worse…..a Fox defender or a racist defender?????????????…feel free to block me because further responses to the racist stooges defender will be this;

            “I’M sorry I dont respond to people who defend racists.”

          • Michael T

            I’m sitting here laughing while thinking, “People like Cecelia actually defend this kind of absurd irrational repetitive thinking…wow!!”

          • Cecelia

            Get used to it.

            I find the argument that it’s okay to call another political side a bunch of racists because the media says it, to be far more tenuous and self-serving.

            You settle for me thinking that Gaxter may be on to something as regards two people.

            I’ll settle for folks like you labeling vast swaths of citizens as being racists because you like the taste of disdain and political expedience.

          • Michael T

            “…folks like you labeling vast swaths of citizens as being racists.”

            It appears you mischaracterized what I said, which was, “racists — or at least bigoted alt-right white nationalists.”

            So you’re a supporter of the alt-right white nationalists?

            Wow. Seriously? Is that really what you’re saying?

            Your writings are often vague, so I am simply asking for clarity.

          • Cecelia

            No, I’m a supporter of not attempting to shut people up by tarnishing their views as being a milder variation of a few extremists.

            That’s what being done here with Trump. That’s what being done to people who agree with his policies on immigration. They’re being called racists and linked in with people with couldn’t get much attention otherwise if they stood naked and handed out flyers in front of supermarkets.

            That clear enough?

          • Michael T

            Yes. Perfectly clear…and mind blowing I should add.

            The NYT, The Atlantic, the NRO on one side and you and sites like the Daily Caller on the other.

            Oh well. There’s also this from the Associated Press:

            Donald Trump’s oldest son last week retweeted a post from Kevin MacDonald, a former professor at California State University Long Beach. MacDonald said last week that white people in America are becoming a victimized minority. He has been accused of anti-Semitism by critics, including the Southern Poverty Law Center.

          • Cecelia

            So that’s what white nationalism is, huh?

            Suggesting that a cultural ethos designed to shut people up — “check your privilege”, microaggressions, whitemansplaing… leads to the sort of thinking that vilifies something as commonsensical as Pres. Clinton’s speech in the 90s.

            The Atlantic told me so….

          • Cecelia

            I’m not voting on Trump, but it’s not because I think he and his kids and his supporters…are racist, antisemites…

            I’m not voting on him because he’s a two-bit hustler who couldn’t determine to be a statesman for one moment, if someone demanded it by holding a gun to the heads of his grandchildren.

          • Michael T

            You’re back to being vague again my friend.

            But that’s okay. I’ve said all I need to say.

            You’re always a worthy challenger as is Joe Remi when I’ve debated him.

          • Cecelia

            I could be unvague like Joe and have an argument that consisted of “I’m not going to let you say that” and “You’re full of shite”, but you’re going to have to settle for me giving examples of the sort of rhetorical devices that are used nowadays to squelch speech rather than support it.

          • Michael T

            I would like to change the topic and pose a challenge (in a lighthearted manner) to those (you, Johnny and Gatxer) who seem unaware of the pro Trump bias by Harris Faulkner. Our own little version of Truth or Dare, if you will.

            Let’s keep score (this is said with tongue in cheek)…
            • Every time Harris Faulkner says something unfavorable about Donald you get a point.
            • Every time Rachel Maddow says something unfavorable about Hillary I get a point.

            You’ll soon discover how rare it is for Harris to ever veer from her unrelenting support for Mr. Donald J. Trump.

          • Cecelia

            So now instead of arguing that it’s ridiculous to say that there’s only one way to measure Harris Fauikner, I must sign up for Twitter…eh…watch daytime tv.

            Can’t I just get hysterical updates from Ice, as you do?

          • Michael T

            BTW, with Harris it’s not so much bold declarations of support like you might hear from Bolling and Guilfoyle.

            It’s more on the subtle side…much like what Howard Kurtz does.

            For example, a guest or co-host will say something that might be construed by some as unfavorable to Trump. So when Harris gets a chance to speak she will politely tweak (or spin) what was just said — for the viewers — to put a more ‘favorable to Trump’ spin on it.

            I’m sure similar biases appear on other shows and other channels as well.

          • Cecelia

            And based upon THAT you practically accused Gaxter of denying the existence of gravity.

          • Michael T

            You never know with him, do ya?

          • I’ll respectfully pass on your offer. I don’t know what your basis is to claim Harris not only supports Trump but is ‘unrelenting’ about it. There are only three programs on Fox you admit to watching and Harris isn’t on any of them. A few weeks ago you didn’t even know she anchors The Fox Report, which she has been doing for years. And yet, though you have actually watched her only ‘rarely’ you are dogmatic about her ‘unrelenting support’ for Trump. I wouldn’t personally make such judgmental determinations on so little evidence, but this is America and that’s what makes horse racing. Maybe someone else will take you up on this.

          • Michael T

            Out# is on my DVR for today.

            Hopefully I can provide some examples.

          • Michael T

            “A few weeks ago you didn’t even know she anchors The Fox Report.”

            What does this have to do with anything?

            I was quoting what I read elsewhere that she anchored a weekend news show. A pivotal point in a debate about her opinions on Out#.

            So now we actually have to have personal direct first-hand knowledge of something we say here at J$P?

          • I only cited it as it was relevant to your general knowledge about programming that you ‘rarely’, if ever, watch. That lack of info is not exactly a great credential to claim someone is an ‘unending’ ‘100% Trump supporter’. My first reaction when someone expresses such an opinion after saying they almost never watch is ‘How would you know?’ I have the same problem with Maddow BTW who boasts that she’s never seen more than five minutes of any program on Fox but still finds a way to go off on rants about Fox does or doesn’t do across its entire schedule. Just stay in your lane, people!

          • Michael T

            Okay.

            Looks like we have a basic disagreement about how useful information is we get from online sources compared to actually watching the program.

            No problem. To each his own. I feel I could write a long-form article about Rush Limbaugh for Vanity Fair and I have never listened to his radio show (on a radio) in my entire life. Then again maybe I’m kidding myself.

          • Cecelia

            Yes, it’s totally settled science to conclude that Harris Faulkner is a Trump fan, and beyond the scope of realty to hold another opinion, so your jaw dropped when Harris supported Meghan McCaine, but Harris refused the opportunity to actually rebuke Trump afterwards as a impartial journalist would have,,,etc….

            Sheesh.

            With arguments like this we don’t need to trip over to “neutral” sites like Mediaite…

            Correct me if I’m wrong. but isn’t Ice able to come here and defend himself? Hasn’t he done that many times in a deluge of posts?

            Did any commenter force Moe to do as he claimed and get himself banned because it’s not good for his serenity to comment here?

            Does anyone force him to read us and comment on that and our various proclivities via Twitter?

            How unfair are we being to Moe when he made all those moves himself and congratulated himself for doing it for his own benefit?

            He blocks a few of us on Twitter for his own benefit, says insulting things about JDP, and commenters here and thus far, no has suggested that you or anyone else should demand that he unblock us so we can respond.

            Of course, it wouldn’t occur to you either to do that, now would it?

            It’s a pity your sense of justice and fair play seems to only go one way, but I can live with that.

            I know you’ve been conscripted to enable a drunk in his own undoing, and aside for that, you like it.

          • Michael T

            The debate with Gatxer was over whether he was being honest and accurate with his readers. And also whether his actual goal here was to kiss up to Johnny so he would get some attention for some very misguided observations about who’s a racist and who’s not.

            Nice try with your deflection though.

          • Cecelia

            How is responding to your argument about Harris Faulkner being an obvious Trump supporter “deflection”?

            How is responding to your nonsense that Gaxter is being unfair to Joe that as well?

            Joe intentionally made his bed and does his own blocking people from responding to his criticism.

            Ice can and does do his own defending here.

            They don’t need your help.

          • Michael T

            “Ice can and does do his own defending here. They don’t need your help.”

            Got a chuckle out of that one..my retort should be obvious.

            “Gatxer Ice can and does do his own defending here. They don’t need your help.”

            The difference I’ve never whined about who’s defending whom other than to comment that 5 or 6 against 1 was a little exhausting and hard to keep up with the flurry of replies.

          • Cecelia

            Oh, so you’re just recruiting for Twitter when you make a federal case demanding that Gaxter sign up for the service in order to have it out mano-a-mano with Joe because he can’t here.

          • Michael T

            If Johnny has ever once denied that Harris is pro Trump just like most of the other women on Out#, I missed it.

          • GATXER

            sure you did….sure you did…hes only done it here many times and on twitter…..so of course you missed it………gee…..just be a man.

          • I don’t think I’ve denied the notion but I’ve certainly ridiculed it. I don’t know who Harris Faulkner is supporting, and I’m not aware of her ever saying who’s she supporting. And I’m one who tries to never miss her on Outnumbered ( I think I’ve succeeded). The notion that anyone can “know” from, say, the height her eyebrow goes up or what questions she asks that she’s a ‘100% Trump supporter’ just strikes me as silly. More so if you admit you don’t watch Outnumbered, and two weeks ago didn’t even know that Harris Faulkner anchors The Fox Report!

            I can recall an Out# where Meghan McCain launched into a rant against Trump, his comments about her Dad, owing him and veterans an apology, dishonoring the military etc. When it was over it was Harris Faulkner who spoke and said to Meghan that’s why I love you. Pretty odd comment for a 100% Trump supporter to make. And guess what? That comment never got tweeted by Ice. I don’t recall seeing it on Media Matters or Newshounds either. Because what better way to poison the well against Harris Faulkner than by excluding things that don’t fit the meme? That’s been a trick of the newshounds for over a decade. It started in Outfoxed (where they cropped a Democrat out of a picture, eliminated Alan Colmes, etc) and continues with the hounds. I’ve caught them in lies of omission so many times I gave up counting (and doing weekly exposés) because it was getting repetitive.

            So that’s my story and I’m stuck with it. I really think I need to get some sleep. ‘Night, all.

          • Michael T

            “When it was over it was Harris Faulkner who spoke and said to Meghan that’s why I love you.”

            Yeah, I saw that too. My jaw dropped. That was really out of character. I suspect some could argue (not a stupid person) knows that some (perhaps many) of her fans let her know that they were surprised she was not more critical of Trump when he critized (indirectly) the POWs.

            So when Megyn went off it was the pefect opportunity to convede, “Yeah, I get it and thank you Megyn for calling out someone who attacked your dad.”

            I am surprised that you can’t see the pro Trump bias from Harris. It seems so frequent and obvious. Eye of the beholder I guess.

            But if you are saying, “…that’s my story and I’m stuck with it” I will echo your comment and say night, all as well. 🙂

          • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

            Ignore him, Gaxter. I do. I don’t even give him and his puppetmaster the satisfaction of a response.

          • GATXER

            Yea I guess Im going to have to………………hes a racist stooges defender…….and hes always right and anybody who disagrees is a crazy person.

            Thing is Nixon………before he became the stooge defender and chief…..he made a lot of scene…….and we agreed a lot………..now its like talking to ICE.

          • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

            I noticed that, as well. As far as I am concerned, I simply ignore him like Son of Blackflon. Who at times makes more sense. I told Johnny that I am going to simply ignore him. He will eventually cross the line with his BS.

          • Michael T

            You two really like to take on that polemicist role with your childish name calling (stooges) and personal attacks.

            You can’t fool me. All you want to do is argue…never discuss and work toward common ground.

          • Michael T

            You really love to throw around that word “racist’ don’t you?

            It undermines whatever serious point you might be trying to make because people are going to label you as an out of control mudlslinger and Breitbart disciple. Have it your way.

          • GATXER

            You really love to throw around that word “racist’ don’t you?

            Funny you dont say the same about the stooges when they throw that around about Trumps people…..other than Trump……the stooges are about the only people Ive called that in years……but I may have said it about Ann Coulter….Im not sure……anyway:

            “I’M sorry I dont respond to people who defend racists.”

          • Michael T

            Because many in the media are saying the same thing about some of Trump’s people. They are racists — or at least bigoted alt right white nationalists. It’s in all the papers Mr. “Democrat.”

          • GATXER

            I’M sorry I dont respond to people who defend racists.

          • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

            He’s a different man than he was just a month ago. Now, he is simply “Moe by proxy.” Ignore him and his ilk. Life is too short to deal with them.

          • Michael T

            Fabrications from Gatxer we are waiting for proof that they are true:

            “I don’t have a Twitter account.” What are the odds someone else would use the Twitter name @gatxer?

            “Ice is a racist.” I am increasingly convinced you do not even know the real meaning of the word. You just know that J$P and Newshounds has a long history of feuding and you constantly make your first post of the day about a writer for Newshounds in your transparent attempt to kiss up to Johnny.

            “Ice is banned from ICN.” Not true and you have no proof.

            “I would call out Ice if he took on conservative black hosts or guests on CNN or MSNBC.” Not true and you have no proof.

          • GATXER

            I’M sorry I dont respond to people who defend racists.

          • Cecelia

            “…this is all too serious…”

            Who are you and what have you done with gc?

          • gcblues

            i have no desire to fight anyone on the net over posts. i am happy to argue but when people get nasty or personal or upset, i do not enjoin or enjoy. see below. i did not need to post a word.

          • Cecelia

            I’m saving this response for prosperity.

          • gcblues

            calling you catty indirectly is not included.

          • Cecelia

            Agreed. Like I’d remember that over your more testosterone laden spats.

  • Apologies but I have been unable to post any videos from today’s Reliable Sources. It’s now almost 7:30 pm and the Reliable Sources video page still has last week’s clips on it. They’re usually behind Fox in posting videos but this is ridiculous. If the videos show up tonight or tomorrow I will add them to the post.

    Meanwhile watch for an extra post tonight. It’s nothing superific but it’s not just a collection of links either.

    • Cecelia

      Guess they decided that you aren’t news.

      • Larry Kelly

        Guess they decided they are not news.

  • This weekend’s most popular links:
    5 part one
    4 call it an error
    3 out of the woodwork
    2 called anti-Semitic
    And the most popular link in this weekend’s links…
    1 What’s bothering Chuck Todd.

    • Joe Concha

      This result isn’t bothersome at all.

      • Larry Kelly

        That Chuck was wrong about what was bothering him was bothersome. Oh bother.

  • Larry Kelly

    What’s bothering Chuck Todd? Bet it’s not what’s bothering Gilbert Grape.

  • Larry Kelly
  • gcblues

    Best year in 5 for surfers. end of ‘el niño abd boom, big waves every day. lonnnnng tubers. photographers loving it.
    https://www.facebook.com/nicaragua365/photos/a.1351897171506106.1073743252.136713643024471/1351897311506092/?type=3&ref=notif&notif_t=notify_me_page&notif_id=1473102606701560

    go west through Tola out of Rivas, 40 min.
    hey tech guys. when will google earth be able to do video?

    • Larry Kelly

      As soon as they finalize the naked-sunbathing filter.

      • gcblues

        the nude and sag deal is more cali, Latinas are more thong and shave. the first few years i lived in CR i fell in love many times a day. still some awesome beach photos w/out women. between Panama and Puerto V, there are thousands of miles of incredible pacific beach. i have seen almost all of it from Alaska south. i hitch hiked from san fran north to the UofO via florence. the states has incredible beauty along the pacific. the Olympic penn in WASH is really nice. but nothing beats the latin pacfific. i mean it is like driving through Iowa nebraska and you are going will it ever end …. except it is sunsets on empty beaches, and they go on for weeks and weeks.

  • Larry Kelly
  • Larry Kelly

    “Friar Tuck” how many times I gotta tell you? You rob from the rich and keep it!”
    http://ntknetwork.com/bill-clinton-compares-clinton-foundation-robin-hood/
    “Let’s make merry, Maid Hillary is nowhere near Sherwood Forrest.”

    • Cecelia

      Robbin’ hood.

  • Larry Kelly
  • Larry Kelly

    R.I.P. Hugh O’Brien. He was 91 when he passed today. One of my partners was in his leadership program for young people. She was one of nearly a half million the program taught leadership skills over the decades.
    🎶brave, courageous and bold…🎶

  • Michael T

    It’s been quite an active little seven-day span as some of us argued and some of us discussed and some of us did both. (I don’t remember that many days in the 200 comment territory — let alone three in the same week.)

    SEP 3rd Weekend — 206 comments
    SEP 2nd — 195 comments
    AUG 30th — 204 comments

    • GATXER

      I was trying to figure out how long I had been at INC the other day……I was shocked to notice free for alls had hundreds of comments almost every time back in 2008……….never did find my first post…….but the archive doesn’t go back to ICN 1.0 so I think thats why.

      I like Spud he makes me think about things I might not see…..its sad that most threads now only get 1 or 2 comments.

      • Michael T

        What’s your take on Spud’s political leanings if you have one?

        He and his blog seem a bit like TVNewser (if you are familiar with this site).

        Center-right but posts articles about networks and channels other than the many he posts about Fox News.

        • GATXER

          Well……Ive been at spuds place since it was 1.0 ………….I was never a big commenter there but I used to read everything he wrote…….I still go there everyday just to see if anything news been posted.

          I don’t like talking behind his back……but what Im about to say here Ive said to him at his place so I hope he won’t mind.

          IMHO Spuds pretty fair and knowledgeable. I don’t see him center right but center on most things. His twitter feed in the past has been fairly left of center before this election……….but not stooge left.

          On Fox he tends to be fair……….but he doesn’t IMHO like the network much…..if blog was pretty dead till the ailes thing and he’s made more post in the last two months than any months before that. Its not like there haven’t been any other cable news stories.

          My biggest example of bias for him in the last few years is that he likes to post the news release for ratings……..he posts MSNBC and CNN and sometimes CNN-HL…….but he stopped doing one for Fox News some time ago…..which if that’s the worst I can say about him………..that means hes pretty fair.

          BUT…….I know others here and the BANNED people who shall not be named have had a complete different experience with him. His blog changes over time…..as does this one…..there are few people here that were here when I started reading J$ and no one left at Spuds place that were there when I started reading him.

          • Cecelia

            I have posted there less than ten times, so correct me if I’m off base, but from what I have put together he really wasn’t much concerned that there would be commenters there.

            Commenters were more of a nuisance for him?

          • GATXER

            That’s how it ended….but back in the early days things were VERY different………I enjoyed reading the comments at one time….I think Spud did also….or so it seemed………but just imagine a place with all 5 stooges and no comments moderated so anything can be said………how long do you think you would want to run a blog like that?

          • Larry Kelly

            Got him a lot of clicks. Usually just the regular customers in any barfight. Leave, fight, makeup, toss in some humor. Running gags, shifting alliances. I though it was going surprisingly well unregulated until someone complained to him. Attemptng to regulate sporadically make things worse. Commenters felt they were treated unfairly and tempers flaired, plotted to get the other guy banned, faked outrage, gravited to tormenting. Couldn’t last. Didn’t. Krypton blew up, and some of us found better planets. Blessings sometime come in disguise.

          • Larry Kelly

            After most of the gang got banned, Spud toyed with my suggestion maybe he might want to end the comment section, but decided not to. Comments there have ebbed and flowed over the years, and I would not be surprised to see a large number return if a couple new people find the place and make interesting comments. Comments at a blog are like comments on YouTube. Spice or poison they are a driver of eyeballs.

          • Michael T

            Spot on and it doesn’t help that compared to Disqus the commenting software for WordPress type blogs is pretty lame.

          • sky303

            I commented a few times there, maybe more than a few… I found his first blog , when there was a story link on an msnbc forum that I was part of, and was happy when he came back for 2.0 and commented when I could or I thought the story was interesting.

        • Larry Kelly

          He’s more concerned with cable news than politics.

          • Michael T

            I think I recall you saying recently that he’s old school (my words — not necessarily yours) and opines that cable news has seen better days and basically is going to hell in a handbasket (to use and old cliché).

  • Larry Kelly

    If you watched PBS NEWSHOUR tonight you learned President Obama cancelled a planned meeting with the new president of the Philippines who earlier threatened to call Obama a SOB to his face. If you watched NBC NIGHTLY NEWS, you did not. You also heard Trump speak to a huge enthusiastic Ohio county fair crowd on the former, and Trump say dumb things at a diner on the latter. I’m loosing my enthusiasm for NBC NIGHTLY NEWS.

    • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

      I would call him much worse than a SOB to his face.

      • Larry Kelly

        Don’t think I’d cross the street to meet him or Biden. I’d like to meet his wife though. I expect Trump to show up in my coal country part of Ohio. He will get a rousing reception from Democrats. Me and dog will attend. I hope they take down the confederate flag in town.

        • Nixon – niihpikiiookani

          Biden and I would probably end up comparing brain surgeries. He may be nuts, but he sure isn’t boring.

        • gcblues

          curiously political parties around the world have Flags, not the USA.

          • Larry Kelly

            Thank God.

          • gcblues

            i am not sure who to thank however i will say the in party Bandaras are intimidating. more than once i have passed through fronteras, government buildings and passed government vehicles with no Nica flag, Blue and white, and only the FSLN flags, red and black. they like rotating a lot and include lots of billboards of the royal couple.