1/6/09 12:37 PM

Weekend Links & Open Thread

Weekend cable news links [updated through the weekend]:

Mal James: Scary silence.

Greta: problematic promotions.

Why Larry King?

Profile: Steve Harrigan (via TV Newser).

CNN tweet controversy.

Media Matters behind bloody ballad?

Russia: The Angry Giant.

Conventioneering with Chuck Todd.

McCain documentary eyes Keating controversy.

Favorite FBN moments (via Inside Cable News).

Sunday talkers: roundup.

Alan's hate mail.

An Olympic "MSNBC-gate"?

Mal James: Lucky charms.

Bob Beckel: Republican?!

Video flashback: John Roberts.

Use our valuable bandwidth to post your comments on any and all cable news topics in this weekend's open thread. Standard rules apply.




Mike C.
Re: The John Roberts flashback: Wow! I had no idea.
And that will be my lone comment this weekend. I know what's coming because it happens every day. Venting about it gets me nowhere. To one side, have fun creating chaos; and to the other side, have fun feeding the chaos. See you Monday.
August 16, 2008, 1:27:23 AM EDT – Like – Reply


tess
My husband watches Happy Hour and he doesnt know the difference between the stock market and the super market. These women are gorgeous but I am pretty sure they have the cash to buy clothing that doesnt show so much cleavege or legs. Hepefully they are not the ones that talk about Paris Hilton and Lindsey Lohan not wearing panties when they are out clubbing. Hilton and Lohan are party animals and the ladies of FBN are professional women. They seem to flaunt their bodies. By the way I kid my husband about being so business oriented.
August 16, 2008, 7:50:50 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
I can understand why someone might think Beckel is a Republican.
August 16, 2008, 10:39:10 AM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
I can understand why someone might think Beckel is a Republican.
 
And that would be...?
 
Beckel is a self-described life long liberal Democrat.
 
He ran VP Walter Mondale's presidential campaign in 1988 and served in the Carter Admininstration.
 
He's a mainstream liberal but not a crazy internet leftwinger, the types that post here and elsewhere.
 
To those leftwing types, anyone to their right is a Republican. Heck, if Bill Clinton were running today for the Democratic Party's candidacy, he'd be called a "neocon" or "conservative".
 
He simply couldn't get the nomination today if the netroots had their way.
August 16, 2008, 10:53:15 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
i can to
August 16, 2008, 10:54:22 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
The Girls of Fox Business are hot, but give me Erin Burnett any time.
August 16, 2008, 10:55:24 AM EDT – Like – Reply


david smawley
To the nut jobs, if you are on FoxNews, you are a Republican, Susan Estrich, Lanny Davis, Howard Wofson, Alan Combs, Bob Beckel all right wingers to them. I find it amusing as it reveals their warped world view.
August 16, 2008, 11:21:14 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Davis and Wolfson are actually former Hillary supporters, does fox have any Obama supporters on payroll?
August 16, 2008, 11:34:45 AM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Beckel, Marc Lamont Hill, David Corn. I suspect Dennis Ross and Ellen Ratner but not sure.  
 
Just off the top of my head. I'm sure I'm forgetting some people.
August 16, 2008, 11:44:00 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Fox news is more anti Obama than Anti democrat
August 16, 2008, 11:45:54 AM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
Davis and Wolfson are actually former Hillary supporters, does fox have any Obama supporters on payroll?
 
Professor Marc Lamont Hill is on O'Reilly at least once a week or so.
 
And Wolfson's voting for Obama, that's for sure.
 
Alan Colmes. I believe Geraldo Rivera has come out for Obama. My guess is that Greta Van Sustern will vote for him as well.
 
Off hand, I'd say that there's more pro-Obama people on FNC than pro-McCain people on CNN and MSNBC.
August 16, 2008, 12:02:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
i can to
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.16.08 - 10:59 am | #  
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
You can TO ....what?????
August 16, 2008, 12:34:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Does anyone think F&F was better with Griif Jenkins this AM.
August 16, 2008, 1:05:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Vstol  
I sometimes Beckel does say some things that sound republican
August 16, 2008, 1:05:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Olby Sucks
Like?
August 16, 2008, 2:42:35 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike C.
I only briefly glanced at the "Favorite FBN moments" link. Anything FBN-related makes my Cablevision Derangement Syndrome act up. (I explain about that on my blog.) Also, anything ESPNEWS HD-related, ESPNU-related, and NFL Network-related. I'd say Boomerang, but I don't even care for cartoons right now outside of what's already in my collection.
August 16, 2008, 2:45:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike C.
Oh, and I'm glad that it hasn't been too bad over here so far. Let's keep it that way.
August 16, 2008, 2:46:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
David and Johnny, you basically proved my point in your litany of Democratic has beens. They define the Democratic party today just about as much as Thomas Dewey defines the Republican party today. I believe Ailes and Company honestly hired these people thinking it would produce fair and balanced coverage, or, more likely, that it would give the appearance of fair and balanced coverage. That's why FNC seems to be listless and stagnating. It needs new blood at the time. FNC is a decidedly mid-90's place now.
August 16, 2008, 2:58:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
I sometimes Beckel does say some things that sound republican
 
Well, I've heard him criticize the Clinton and/or Obama campaign and how they handle issues or controversies (e.g., Obama poorly handled the Wright matter). And he's criticized the harsh rhetoric that comes from the leftwing netroots crowd.
 
If that's Republican sounding then frankly I think any "problem" with Beckel lies elsewhere and not with him.
August 16, 2008, 3:08:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply


david smawley
At least CNN offers some conservative voices like Glenn Beck on Headline News and Bill Bennett is a contributor in some prime time programing on the mother station. Name one conservative voice that is a regular contributor on MSNBC prime time programing. Morning Joe does not count - prime time only.
August 16, 2008, 3:23:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike C.
Newsbusters showed a clip of Lars Larsen on "Verdict with Dan Abrams."
August 16, 2008, 3:50:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
Mark,
 
Yeah it is probably the same as the situation between Trotsky and Stalin. At one time Trotsky was a shining light of the Communist Party. Then, he did not tow the party (Stalinist) line as well as he should have. Then he was "thrown under the bus" (actually he was murdered).
 
It is the same with Beckel. Beckel is way liberal. But sometimes he might not tow the party line as well as the most fanatical Obama supporters would like. Time to throw the poor guy under the bus.
 
Wow. And you accused others of behaving like Stalin.
August 16, 2008, 3:53:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
Tony Blankley is one. Pat Buchanan is another. There are others, as well.
August 16, 2008, 3:58:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
"Off hand, I'd say that there's more pro-Obama people on FNC than pro-McCain people on CNN and MSNBC." -SteveMG
 
Not only that, but studies prove time and time again that the media leans way left. This includes with donations this year with Fox giving thousands to democrats and nothing to republicans. http://tinyurl.com/6omndz
 
I recall another recent report that broke it down by primary candidates and Fox employees donated biggest to Hillary and Obama.
August 16, 2008, 4:02:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
Pat Buchanan is another
 
By no measure is Buchanan a supporter of McCain's.
 
Buchanan views McCain as a "neocon" Republican (or someone with, let us say, "neocon" tendencies), something he hates almost as much as he does liberal Democrats.
 
I'm sure he'd pick McCain over Obama if he had to select one. But he'd do so with extreme reluctance.
August 16, 2008, 5:10:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
But Steve,, David's question was as to "conservative voices," not McCain supporters. I answered David's question. I imagine there are many conservatives who find McCain an anathema.
---
F/F: I think you're correct about Obama supporters at FNC, in part because of the reasons contained in my answer to Steve, and in part because of the personality differences, rather than political issue differences between McCain and Obama. Another factor, this election may be breaking much more on an age than race fault line right now. I think that upsets may of the predispositions we have.
August 16, 2008, 5:49:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Olby Sucks
"I imagine there are many conservatives who find McCain an anathema."
 
Just as there are many liberals that think of obama the same way.
August 16, 2008, 6:24:51 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
But Steve,, David's question was as to "conservative voices," not McCain supporters.
 
I stand corrected.
 
I mixed up his post with the question of Obama vs. McCain supporters on the cable news outlets.
August 16, 2008, 6:25:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
Chuckolytes Unite!
 
Greatest guy on broadcast/cable news. More knowledgeable than anyone, anyone, anyone when it comes to political analysis. Makes Barone and Schneider look like the rankest of amateurs. He's the only reason I stick with (MS)NBC. Otherwise, I'm back at CNN.
August 16, 2008, 6:26:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
Fox news is more anti Obama than Anti democrat
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.16.08 - 11:50 am | #  
 
Specious argument. BTW, when did you stop beating your wife?
------------
 
I believe Ailes and Company honestly hired these people thinking it would produce fair and balanced coverage, or, more likely, that it would give the appearance of fair and balanced coverage. That's why FNC seems to be listless and stagnating. It needs new blood at the time. FNC is a decidedly mid-90's place now.
Mark | 08.16.08 - 3:03 pm | #  
 
Convoluted logic: "That's why FNC seems..."
 
There is a simple way to gauge if a cable news network favors one candidate or another, and it has nothing to do with who they hire as political analysts.
 
When a campaign official, a spokesperson, a manager, or any other position, appears on a cable news network, does the cable news network have a like official from the other campaign on at the same time, or immediately following?
 
Is the coverage of official campaign commercials, news releases and statements equal?
 
Is on-air joking or making fun of any candidate off limits?
 
I don't have the answers but some wonky study group probably does.
August 16, 2008, 6:58:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply


DeeKay
"Does anyone think F&F was better with Griff Jenkins this AM"
 
Actually, yes, I think so also. Griff can be serious when needs be, but also can add some fun to the show when it's a slow news morning.
 
He's redeemed in my eyes ever since the weekend they were talking about Tony Snow's passing, and he spoke so highly of his good friend in such a touching way. I liked Griff before that, but I like him a lot more now.
August 16, 2008, 7:04:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
Is on-air joking or making fun of any candidate off limits?
 
Speaking of which, does anyone know if Olbermann has ever "tweaked" or made fun of Obama at any time?
 
I try (really) watching "Countdown" but Olbermann is just too tendentious for me. Tendentiousness is tolerable if it's mitigated with at least an occasional opposing view.
August 16, 2008, 7:18:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Guest
Pat is on Morning Joe, not a prime time player. If he is on at night, what show?
August 16, 2008, 7:31:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
Excerpts from the LA Times Chuck Todd profile:
 
(Todd)"...an almost old-fashioned straight shooter among his highly opinionated colleagues..."
 
"...and MSNBC with its colorful anchor team of Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews, who unapologetically slide between news and opinion."
 
"...as the 2008 race gained steam, in large part because of Olbermann's barn-raising tirades against President Bush. ///snip/// Griffin said. 'For the first time, we've got some swagger'."
 
C&P apologies.
 
Chucky, chuck, he's our man
If he can't do it, Chrissy can
Chrissy, Chrissy, he's our man
If he can't do it Keithy can
Keith, Keith, he's our man fan
If he can't do it
We're SOL
August 16, 2008, 7:32:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
I think you pose a really good question, Steve. Certainly, I enthusiastically support Senator Obama. At the same time, I probably have as little regard for Olbermann as you do. In my limited experience watching Olbermann, I am not sure I have heard him joke about Senator Obama. I spoke with my wife, who frequently watches the Olbermann re-broadcast, probably 3-4 times a week, and she doesn't recall such an incident, either. I'm not sure what that means. Maybe nothing.
August 16, 2008, 7:48:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
I'm not sure what that means. Maybe nothing.
 
Olbermann clearly (to me) uses his sense of humor (which I must admit is sometimes wicked and good) to diminish people. It's often pointed and raw.
 
Humor is a very powerful weapon. Once the late-night comedians zero in on a public figure, for example, and are able to successfully "caricature" or "target" them, that public figure will have a tough time ridding himself or herself of that public image.
 
I know, Jay Leno is not Keith Olbermann.
 
But you get the point.
August 16, 2008, 8:05:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
If he is on at night, what show?
---
He was just on the MSNBC forum wrap-up. He is frequently on Matthews, Gregory, Abrams. He was constantly on primary return coverage. Pat chalks up as much air time on MSNBC as some hosts.
August 16, 2008, 10:08:11 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
The "Wild Card" in the cable news wars is Chuck Todd, if more people see him at the convention more viewers will be drawn to MSNBC which in turn would hurt Fox and Cnn. Also if Luke Russert proves to a third as good as his father, he is better than anything Fox can throw at them. The history of cable might be defined in the next few weeks and the Fox empire might start to show some crumbling.
August 16, 2008, 11:40:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Olby Sucks
That's some mighty broad speculation, there!
August 17, 2008, 12:42:17 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
The "Wild Card" in the cable news wars is Chuck Todd, if more people see him at the convention more viewers will be drawn to MSNBC which in turn would hurt Fox and Cnn.  
 
Well, since MSNBC comes in fourth place in a three-way race, it's doubtful this is going to happen.
 
Do you really think that people will see him on MSNBC and then tell all their friends "Hey, ya gotta see Chuck Todd on MSNBC, he's GREAT!"
August 17, 2008, 1:08:39 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Actually yes I do. Look at the hits his website takes. Viva CHuck Todd, he is the new star and since he will be on the main networks convention coverage millions more people will see him than on Fox's convention coverage. And Fox does not have the firepower that Nbc does, Brokaw, Williams, Mitchell, Fox just doesnt have the repected and balanced newspeople that Nbc or CNN have.
August 17, 2008, 9:18:00 AM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 9:23 am | #  
 
LA Times excerpt:
With the broadcast networks doing limited coverage of the conventions, the cable channels see an opening to dominate these events and position themselves as a destination for political news throughout the fall. They hope to expand on a trend that began in 2004, when Fox News got higher ratings for its coverage of the GOP convention than the broadcasters.
 
"Cable really has replaced broadcast for convention coverage and real political debate and discussion," said David Bohrman, CNN's Washington bureau chief.
------------
 
An occasional perusal of the cited article and a consideration of facts rather than using an incorrect assumption for the basis of an opinion would be a HUGE help in being considered a person worthy of debating an issue.
 
[debate tutoring and consultation provided pro bono]
August 17, 2008, 10:40:38 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
UU:
 
I think that the (MS)NBC combination is likely to do very, very well, in part because of Todd, as you suggest, along with Brokaw, Mitchell and Williams. CNN will do well. It remains the standard, at least until the conventions are over. ABC will do well. The big losers will be CBS and FNC. CBS is, literally, anchorless, and FNC, as I said before, is simply tired, stale and listless. That will appeal to some who are also tired, stale and listless, but anyone who wants a combination of breaking news and cutting edge commentary is not going to be at home FNC. This election breaks molds. FNC is just not in the mold-breaking mode. At least not anymore. Of course, Carlson and Doocy can probably entertain us with the keen analysis of the candidates' wives dress and demeanor.
August 17, 2008, 11:05:21 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Oh so true mark but cbs will do alot better with its new partnership with CNN which in my opinion is the standard. And you Doocy and Carlson coments are sp righton. Do you think Fox wishes the still had Kiran Chetry?
August 17, 2008, 11:19:14 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
and Mark GOP and FOX are synonomis with each other
August 17, 2008, 11:28:01 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
UU:
 
I don't know about Chetry.
 
My greatest fear about FNC, Ailes and Murdoch is that they think Carlson and Doocy are actually good.
August 17, 2008, 11:51:15 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Olby Sucks
Fox just doesnt have the repected and balanced newspeople that Nbc or CNN have.
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 9:23 am | #  
 
:lol:
August 17, 2008, 11:51:52 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Olby Sucks
vstol, notice how they ignore your post and continue their baseless back and forth? Also, getting in their little childish "Doocy" and "Carlson" digs? Have Dooceys or Carlsons words ever killed anyone?

Edited By Siteowner
August 17, 2008, 11:57:41 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
OS,
 
Do you think that this just happened, or was this planned in advance? Curious how U&& just recently showed up so Mark could have , these little dig-laden dialogues. Notice they really don't need to defend anything when he and his partner are able to operate this way.
 
I suppose that this is the best Mark can do. Obviously, he is not very good at debate. That's why he won't answer vistol or talk to me.
 
Mark is clearly at his best when he can indulge in these long-winded bombasts while trying to minimize and opportunity for other to challenge him.
August 17, 2008, 12:27:53 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
No, But fox does put them on their flagship show (Doocy and Carlson) When Doocy interviewed Bush he lobbed so many softball questions, He has the leader of the free world and he cannot ask a tought question, and Carlson where do you start, she sure did not get where she was at with talent. Look how Chetry has flourished since she went to CNN , when they let her show her talent. Fox and Friends is no more than a tabloid TV show with news thrown in. Except on the weekend where it is fair and balanced. I cannot wait for Morning Joe to get back at least the call it right down the middle. They riip on MCcain and Obama equally. Does Fox (dont think so)
August 17, 2008, 12:32:36 PM EDT – Like – Reply


david smawley
It seems like Harrigan has been on the front lines for his entire career. I still remember the dark, greenish images from the time that the 3rd ID invaded Iraq. The stuff from Georgia, including getting fired upon, is top notch. Steve's not the kind of reporter to sit in the green zone or report from the studio.
August 17, 2008, 12:32:36 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Interloper
http://swinney.org/journals/article.phtml?id=1223.txt
August 17, 2008, 12:33:36 PM EDT – Like – Reply


HaggisFarmer
Would just like to congratulate the great Michael Phelps for an unbelievable performance over the 1st week of the Olympics...And also for making my bet on him getting 8 golds pay off...I'm a happy man today, 
 
------------------------
 
I couldn't help but notice....FNC's panel last night was packed with Republican voices....Against a lone Democrat voice....After the Saddleback thing...This may have changed latter...As I had more important things to watch.
August 17, 2008, 12:39:25 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
FNC's panel: Ann Lewis (D), Chris Kofinis (D), Bill Sammon (R), Krauthammer (R).
 
Is this another instance of you 'testing' us to see if we catch you in a lie?
August 17, 2008, 12:53:11 PM EDT – Like – Reply


HaggisFarmer
J$...I'm not trying to test anyone...I flicked over and all I saw was Chris Kofinis (D), Bill Sammon (R), Krauthammer (R)....You also have to remember...Carl Cameron was putting in his two penneth...And we all know he's no Dem.
Not to worry, as Obama did an excellent job in a very difficult environment.


Edited By Siteowner
August 17, 2008, 1:09:03 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> we all know he's no Dem.
 
Another 'test' with another lie we're supposed to 'catch"? Please stop this.
August 17, 2008, 1:11:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Uh Carl Cameron is an obvious republican
August 17, 2008, 2:07:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
Thanks for the quotation and analysis, vstol. As far as it goes, it has merit, but I wouldn't rely on 2004 as being the baseline. There was a political eternity between 2004 and 2006. Remember Barnes, Hannity, Hume, Kristol, Morris, all pretty much in either the dark or in the deepest denial about the mood of the electorate in the House and Senate races, with Barnes and Morris, trying to salvage a modicum of respectability, finally and eblatedly acknowledging what was happening in the country? FNC seemed to be in the political wilderness in 2006. And, I will confess, that was a surprise to me. FNC had been cutting edge for a time.
 
As different an election 2006 was from 2004, 2008 will be even more so. And, I see no signs the core FNC establishment realizes this. In her limited election coverage, Van Sustern has tipped a hat to reality, and that political round table that Smith hosted after some primary returns were coming in (sorry, I can't remember the name, only the garish red set), some sense that it was no longer 1988 emerged. BTW: The content of Smith's show was awfully good at times. I just couldn't come to terms with the presentation and the set. Very confusing. Disorienting.
 
So, while I agree with you vstol, that broadcast news cedes coverage to cable on the conventions, I tend to think we're going to see something fresh but sound with (MS)NBC, something solid and substantial with CNN and last Tuesday's white bread (not yet covered in greenish spores, but dry and stale) from FNC. I actually hope that's not the case, because I would enjoy watching on three (3) networks.
 
See any glimmer of merit in that analysis, vstol?
August 17, 2008, 2:14:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
Interesting link, Interloper. It describes well the problem at most politically oriented sites. Not that this site has anything to do with politics, johnny.
August 17, 2008, 2:32:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
Olby Sucks | 08.17.08 - 12:02 pm | # 
 
Yes, I do notice. They continue to try to divert and clog the comment threads, but instead, their only accomplishment is to further prove they are unworthy of being engaged in debate.
 
Personally, I think they'll be very happy together.
August 17, 2008, 2:49:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
FNC's panel: Ann Lewis (D), Chris Kofinis (D), Bill Sammon (R), Krauthammer (R).
 
Two Democrats and two Republicans is "packed" with Republicans?
 
Well, if it's Olbermann's standards.
 
Haggis, appropriately enough, likes to pull things out of his, um, intestines, doesn't he?
August 17, 2008, 2:51:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
"Thanks for the quotation and analysis, vstol." Mark | 08.17.08 - 2:19 pm |
 
I offered no analysis, simply a recommendation. This comment is a correction.
August 17, 2008, 2:58:50 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
Loved the article by Greta. She says:
 
I am in NYC this weekend and just saw a billboard promoting a show on another news network. It is a show that is up against Bill O’Reilly and Bill’s number of viewers stomps all over this show... The big huge headline on the billboard promoting the show is “The Most Talked About Cable News Show!” I don’t think I have heard anyone ever talk about this show promoted on the billboard. In fact, everyone talks about Bill O’Reilly when talking about cable news …. I wonder, where do they get this?
 
I have to disagree with her to some degree, because these are the some of the things people are saying about Countdown:
 
Keith is a liar
 
Keith is deranged
 
Keith is an idiot
 
Keith is a liar
 
Keith is not competent enough to debate anyone with an opposing viewpoint.
 
Keith is intolerant of anyone not "his kind"
 
Keith is a hypocrite.
 
Obama is the ventriliquest and Keith is the dummy.
 
No one is the ventriliquest but Keith is still a dummy.
 
We here at Media Matters have it much easier now that our website is connected directly to Keiths teleprompter.
 
After reading over some of the previous posts, I think its important that we put everything into accurate focus.
 
FNC is the number one rated Cable news channel
 
FNC is the fair and balanced network.
 
Keith and his minions only wish they had FNC's ratings.
 
Keith and his minions don't want to become the number one news channel by being the best, they want to do it by destroying FNC and CNN. That way, they come in first in a one network race.
 
More democrats watch FNC than MSNBC and CNN.
 
FNC is #1. It's so great, that even the haters watch!!!!!

Edited By Siteowner
August 17, 2008, 3:07:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply


HaggisFarmer
SteveMG | 08.17.08 - 2:56 pm |
 
As I said...I didn't see the whole thing....I also made another post on this but it didn't appear....When I watched a small part there was Chris Kofinis (D), Bill Sammon (R), Krauthammer (R). + Carl Cameron...That snap shot didn't come across as balanced to me....Things may have got better but as I said I didn't see it all.
August 17, 2008, 3:24:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Look, I don't know how you could has seen a "small part" without Ann Lewis, since she was there from the top of the show to the very end. Sitting right in the studio, in between Sammon and Krauthammer. Yet you saw everyone except her.
 
Now the facts are in, there's no more need to discuss the fictional 'unbalanced' panel. Right?
August 17, 2008, 3:31:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike C.
Thank goodness I've been so pre-occupied that I don't need to comment here. Things have once again managed to get out of control and go back and forth, back and forth. I'll see you after midnight in the Monday thread.
August 17, 2008, 3:32:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
There are few interviews that Larry King ever did that I thought were any good. Of course, he was able to get people on his show because they knew he would only toss soft ball questions. I guess there is a place for that.
 
However, I Larry King's time has long passed. I doubt that he would do very well on radio if he tried it today.
 
I will not be sorry to see him retire.
 
Maybe he would not have had to work so long if he had not had to pay all of that alimony.
August 17, 2008, 3:47:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
I have to say I rather envy people who can direct so much concern, so much attention, so much anger toward a person as inconsequential as a cable news personality. To be sure, I can feel and express my distaste and my disrespect for a Doocy or a Hannity, a Dobbs or a Beck, but I just don't have the interest, much less the time, to live my life focused upon any of them. I suppose it does mean that attention to the great issues of the day is diverted. There must be a relaxing quality to it all.
August 17, 2008, 4:06:09 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
Haggis:
J$ has my response (in so many words).
 
What's Scottish for "Oy"?
August 17, 2008, 4:08:30 PM EDT – Like – Reply


HaggisFarmer
Danny | 08.17.08 - 3:52 pm |
 
Larry may be old...But he was as sharp as a tack the other night...Exposing the Corsi lies.
August 17, 2008, 4:14:53 PM EDT – Like – Reply


HaggisFarmer
SMG you sound scunnard...There's a new word for Bill to add to his collection, :lol: 
 
Blooter means: to kick something hard...Or blootered means: drunk...Why is Bill using this word?
August 17, 2008, 4:34:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
Mark,
 
I just don't believe hardly anything you said in your last post. I don't think that you denounce Olbermann or Newshounds. A few days ago, I said that you denounced them with your name (and your name alone) attached to that quote, and you could not even recognize that I was speaking about you.
 
You spend many hours on this site as sort of anti-Fox missionary, zealously spending a large amount of your time preaching your gospel of Fox hatred.
 
It is all right for you to do this. What you don't like is for people to stand up to you and disrespect your message of Fox hatred and to have the audacity to debate the sacred tenets of your anti-Fox religion.

Edited By Siteowner
August 17, 2008, 4:34:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
Haggis:
Well, on the question of whether it was a Republican packed FNC panel or not, the ba's ina slate.
August 17, 2008, 4:52:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Saying Fox is fair and balanced is like saying Bill Clinton is a faithful husband. And saying Olberman is an idiot he did graduate from Cornell, and he is no different of a hate monger than Hannity or Oreilly. And Keith doesnt pick on CNN he picks on Headline News thats where Glen Beck is. And Olberman does not speak for Obama or his supporters for that matter. He just hate republicans and everything they stand for

Edited By Siteowner
August 17, 2008, 4:53:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Mark, 
What did you just say? Isnt you anti Olberman and MSNBC the same as Marks dislike for Fox News. HUh?
August 17, 2008, 4:55:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply


HaggisFarmer
SMG...My reply has to be....Yer bum's oot the windy
August 17, 2008, 4:59:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Im sorry I meant to say Danny
August 17, 2008, 5:00:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply


HaggisFarmer
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 5:00 pm |
 
UU, Your right on the money there...But Danny just won't hear a word said against FNC....But he'll happily disparage other news channels....That don't show the sort of bias he likes.
August 17, 2008, 5:12:53 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Here are few tidbits you Olby haters might want to take a look at 
He Published a book at 14 years of age
"The Major League Coaches"
He has won a Edward R Murrow Award
a Cable Ace Award
A Golden Mike Award
4 Sports Emmy Awards.
If you read his bio 9/11 changed him to what he is today and tell who was President when that happened a Republican.
August 17, 2008, 5:16:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
UU,
 
Not quite the same,
 
I am not nearly as fixated on Olbermann as Mark is fixated on Olbermann and on Fox News. I have never contributed to the OW site and I very occasionally go there. I may disagree with you but I have never accused you . . . even in jest . . . of being married to goat (I am not talking about a figurative goat, I am talking about the animal).
 
I reject your assertion that we are comparable at all. [My guess is that Mark also would reject that comparison . . . for different reasons of course]

Edited By Siteowner
August 17, 2008, 5:30:37 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
To all you Olby Lovers:
 
He has received less formal education than George W. Bush.
 
He not only won an Edward R. Murrow award, he actually believes he's Edward R. Murrow.
 
He is a hypocrite as recently proven by his about-face on telephone tapping. He yelled like you know what for years over it, but the moment Obama is for it, KO is for it. 
 
He does not admit his mistakes.
 
He will not debate anyone with an opposing viewpoint. He's too afraid to do so.
 
He is a liar.
 
He relies mostly on MM to do his research for him.
 
How much did he pay the publisher to publish "the Major League Coaches"?
 
He is consistently been beaten in the ratings by Bill O'reilly who has been the number 1 on cable news for 75 consecutive months.
August 17, 2008, 5:38:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Hey I like goats (cool) Danny, you just proved my point when someone gets personal you just proved I am right.
August 17, 2008, 5:41:52 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Well Ahsley i just proved my point with you too. He porbably didnt pay the publisher much he was 14 (maybe some paper route money) and alll news people have the right to flip flop when the get more information on the subject. And I would hope our President has more education, sure doesnt seem like it but I hope he does. He does debate people with differing opinions. we can go on an on you have you opinion and I have mine. One thing I do know if Obama becomes President Fox News might as well stand behind all the news organizations for an interview, because they will be shut out of the White House and that there own darn fault.
August 17, 2008, 5:48:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
HF,
 
You last post has to be a joke, right?
 
Maybe this is some sort of feeble attempt at projection on your part.
 
As has been demonstrated on this thread, half the time you say something against Fox . . . it is a lie and is totally untrue. When you are caught telling an untruth . . . a lie . . . it does not seem to phase you. You try to make up all kinds of unbelievable excuses as to why you told that untruth . . . that lie. 
 
This has happened so often, I dont believe (with good reason) almost any thing you report about what happened on a Fox nes show. You have about zero credibility with me.
 
You illogical assertion that Rove planted the Powell story is an example that comes to mind, but if I take the time to go through your posts, I know that I can find many examples of where (as Cecelia puts it) you deal in the hypothetical and not in the world of facts.
 
Johnny has demonstrated that Fox has an almost identical number of democratic listeners as Republican listeners. You say that to infer that Fox has content that appeals both to Democrats and Republicans as being laughable. When I point out to you that your argument is the one that is laughable . . . that it is our argument that flies in the face of marketing theory . . . you offer no rebuttal.
 
Like a close-minded cultist, you say (in effect) "well, we can't persuade each other. I am going to continue to believe what I believe and you can believe what you want to believe. Facts and reason be damned!!!"
 
Don't you ever HF, accuse me or anyone else of being irrational or close minded again.' You have set the bar so high for being close minded and irrational that I doubt that I or any other contributer to this forum could ever reach it. . . even if we tried.

Edited By Siteowner
August 17, 2008, 5:52:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> He does debate people with differing opinions.
 
Like who? You can refresh your memory here:
 
http://tinyurl.com/6c3vfj
August 17, 2008, 5:56:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
UU,
 
In your fantasy world, I may have. But in the real world I didn't not come near proving any point you made.
 
If anything, you just proved that you say nonsensical things. I wish I had said that you often do; then you would have proven my point.
August 17, 2008, 5:59:03 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 5:53 pm | #
 
Funny, if the current White House shut out CNN or MSNBC, the left would scream murder!!! Censorship!!!! Where is freedom of the press?????? First amendment???????
 
But its OK I guess to shut out FNC.
 
Hypocrisy, plain and simple.
 
But UU, it's nice to see that even you watch Fox. thanks for helping make it #1.
August 17, 2008, 6:00:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
And Johnny just because they are all Dems does not mean they have Olbermans same opinion. Also that was from 2 years ago do you have anything newer. Or maybe republicans will not go on there because they do not want to go on his show and debate him about how Bush has messed up. They want to be re elected, and standing up for Bush sure as hell wouldnt help that.
August 17, 2008, 6:00:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> Also that was from 2 years ago do you have anything newer.
 
Correction. It started two years ago. The latest entries are from this month.
 
> Or maybe republicans will not go on there 
 
When Democrats won't go on Fox, they bring on their Democratic contributors so that the point of view is represented. Olbermann does not do this for Republicans. Don't try to pretend that it's because nobody will go on. Olbermann has said in interviews that he finds dealing with opposing points of views makes him nauseous. He can't handle it so he restricts guests to those who agree with him.
August 17, 2008, 6:03:24 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Danny let it go. We all know your pro Fox and I am anti Fox( although some Fox personalities are somewhat fair and balanced Hemmer, Kelly, Macallum Gallagher, Shep) If you guys did not have Doocy, Carlson Oreilly or Hannity I could watch fox all day
August 17, 2008, 6:03:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
well today most republicans do make us (Dems) sick, I believe thats Olberman might at one time might have been at least tolerable towards republicans, I honestly think he blames republicans for 9/11.

Edited By Siteowner
August 17, 2008, 6:08:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
Excellent points, Ashley!
 
To be fair to Danny, HF and UU, this site does claim to be the "source for the truth about Fox News". The method by which it accomplishes this is by posting video from sites or shows that dislike FNC and publish/broadcast false allegations about it (such as NH or Countdown) and then posting video or transcript of what Fox really said.
 
All in all, this is a pro-Fox News blog and its readers would be expected to be pro-FNC. It's not a surprise if people here dislike Olbermann and other fabrication purveyors about Fox. Dissent is expected but a majority of the commenters here respect and admire FNC for their adherance to a balanced presentation, something other cable news outlets disregard.
 
I think I feel a tingle running up my leg, got to run!
August 17, 2008, 6:08:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Also another tidbit about Olberman, he broadcasted 40 days(with his radio show) from the Twin Towers after 9//11. That show he has a love foe his country, how many reporters on any news channel can say that?
August 17, 2008, 6:10:30 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
UU,
 
Why should I let anything go?
 
When did I ever deny that I am pro Fox? 
 
All I have said is thathis:t I try to support my assertions with logic and facts. Many posters who come here with the express purpose of slamming Fox don't.
 
I stand by that.
August 17, 2008, 6:17:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
If UU is saying that he doesn't like to watch anyone that is not fair and balanced, then does he believe Keith "Czechoslovakia" Olberman is fair and balanced?
August 17, 2008, 6:18:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
"And Johnny just because they are all Dems does not mean they have Olbermans same opinion."-UU
 
Correct.
It is because they all share his identical opinion, it means, they all have the same opinion.
 
Or maybe republicans will not go on there because they do not want to go on his show and debate him about how Bush has messed up. They want to be re elected, and standing up for Bush sure as hell wouldnt help that.
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 6:05 pm | # 
 
Since his guests are rarely Democratic elected officials or candidates, having Republicans on that are not running for or hold an elected office would solve that non-existant problem.
 
This comment is not analysis, it is not debate, it is an attempt, probably in vain, to illuminate.
 
UU-SUFD
August 17, 2008, 6:29:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
Regarding Keith "Czechoslovakia" Olberman's flip flop on wiretapping
 
"and alll news people have the right to flip flop when the get more information on the subject. 
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 5:53 pm | # 
I can't think of anyone who has said he does not have this right. but don'cha think he should apologize to President Bush for all of his rants against bush for something that Olby is no for?
 
Nah, never gonna happen. K"C"O is a hypocrite who never admits his mistakes. He's a coward. He's a 50 ish year old school-yard bully.
August 17, 2008, 6:35:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
And Johnny just because they are all Dems does not mean they have Olbermans same opinion."-UU
 
Indeed, that's possible. Good point.
 
Olbermann thinks all Republicans are terrorists.
 
His guests may think only half of them are terrorists.
 
This is what he calls "diversity".

Edited By Siteowner
August 17, 2008, 6:41:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Olby Sucks
He (orangy)does debate people with differing opinions.
 
by unfair
 
Where's the list?
August 17, 2008, 6:47:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
Didn't Olby say during the primaries that someone from the dem party should go into a room with Hillary and explain things to her in such a way that only one person comes out of that room?
 
Another thing, if Olby thinks that 9/11 was an inside job, then that is one more thing he has in common with Jerome Corsi.
August 17, 2008, 6:50:19 PM EDT – Like – Reply


HaggisFarmer
Why does everyone have such a problem with Keith? 
He doesn't pretend he's fair and balance...Where as Bill does...If he(Bill) just said...He's a right wing programme...Instead of this fair and balanced nonsense...I wouldn't have a problem with him....I wouldn't agree with what he says...But at least it would be upfront what side he was coming from.
August 17, 2008, 6:56:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply


HaggisFarmer
Ashley | 08.17.08 - 6:55 pm |
 
Correct me if I'm wrong here....But didn't Bill say he'd be OK with a terrorist attack in SF?
August 17, 2008, 7:11:53 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
Because BOR gives everyone a fair shot on his show. Ask Hillary and John Kerry. As long as people answer the questions without going into some other direction and doing anything but answering the question, BOR is quite calm. No-spin right?
 
Every day, BOR debates people on his show who have different opinions from him. That's the fair and balance HF. Can Keith "Czechoslovakia" Olberman make this claim? No, because he is a coward.
 
Besides HF, there are many things that BOR is not inline with the GOP, more with the Dems, issues such as global warming, death penalty, "big oil", etc. Many lefties see him as a righty, and many rightys see him as a leftie.
 
But whatever he is, Bill O'reilly the #1 program on Cable News for 75 consecutive months. Why? Because America loves him. Even farmers from the UK watch him. Why? Because they really love him too.
 
Keith "Czechoslovakia" Olberman wishes to God he had BOR's ratings. K"C"O is obsessed with BOR, he must love him too, talks about him all the time.
August 17, 2008, 7:19:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
HF
 
If you REALLY believe that BOR would be happy if terrorists struck SF, then any further discussion with you would be pointless.
 
Why don't you go back and view all the tapes about the SF city/county government and their treatment of our troops, and then provide us with an exact transcript, keeping it total and in contect, of anything that even remotely comes close to your claim
August 17, 2008, 7:23:24 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
I think HF is most assuredly onto something. If FNC stopped with the fair and balanced slogan and acknowledged it has a distinctly right wing orientation, I'd probably watch even more FNC programming, and I'd stop complaining about FNC. My concern and dislike (rather localized, since I do like some FNC personalities and programs) is the wink-wink-nod-nod subterfuge that goes on about the fairness and balance. What's the big deal about balance? Why is it such a supreme virtue? When a teeter-totter is in balance all it is is a dull, splintery piece of wood.
 
HH: I don't know if Olbermann has ever said he was middle of the road or left of center. Perhaps, someone who watches him more than I can say. But, I don't think he goes around touting his great objectivty, his political neutrality. His wondrous fairness and balance. I give him that much, even if I othwerwise rather loathe him.
 
And, I really don't think the big FNC fans believe in this fairness and balance charade, either. Otherwise, they would not be so shrill and defensive, so prone to personally attack those who have the utter temerit to disagree with them.
 
Just admit it and build a great network based on something other than a bogus slogan. I once heard an entrepreneur say, "We're all about quality for value, and that's not just something we say. It's our motto." Well, 'fair and balanced' is just something FNC says. Wink-wink-nod-nod. It still manages to air some good programming (Doocy, Carlson and Hannity, excepted). Just imagine how much better if ....
 
Being conservative is not shameful. Why act as if it were?
August 17, 2008, 7:23:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
Correct me if I'm wrong here....But didn't Bill say he'd be OK with a terrorist attack in SF?
 
You can really cram a lot of stuff in that casing, can't you?
August 17, 2008, 7:26:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
I never said anything about not watching fair and balanced news, the most fair and balanced newsperson recently passed away (Russert) so you have to watch what is out ther eand make your own opinion. But Fox repeatedly says fair and balanced ( why say it, are they guilty due to the fact they are nor) they are just less fair and balanced that the other news sources, and Olberman as haggis said never admits to being fair and balanced) he just call out people who say they are but are not. Oreilly Doocy carlson,etc..)
August 17, 2008, 7:27:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> But, I don't think he goes around touting his great objectivty, his political neutrality.
 
"I am not politically biased". --Keith Olbermann, Feb 6 2007
August 17, 2008, 7:27:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> he just call out people who say they are but are not.
 
If he doesn't tell the truth and routinely lies when he calls out people, then he is more than biased. He is dishonest.
August 17, 2008, 7:31:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply


HaggisFarmer
Ashley | 08.17.08 - 7:28 pm |
 
Bill O'Reilly November 8th 2005
 
"And if Al Qaeda comes in here and blows you up, we're not going to do anything about it. We're going to say, look, every other place in America is off limits to you, except San Francisco. You want to blow up the Coit Tower? Go ahead."
August 17, 2008, 7:33:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
well Johnny does Hannity not spread the same venom as Olberman
August 17, 2008, 7:34:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
You can argue that he does. Half the time. The other half the time there is someone giving the opposite point of view.
August 17, 2008, 7:36:09 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
And Ashley i am not a Neilson Family so we watching Fox does not count toward their total viewership, I watch Fox when Hemmer and Kelly are on, Trace and Martha and sometimes Shep.And I flip between Morning Joe and American Morning (unless Doocy and Carlson are gone then I might watch a little F&F)
August 17, 2008, 7:37:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
I would like to know in comparison to how much Hannity talk to how much Colmes talks, Shoot Hannity drowns him out.
August 17, 2008, 7:39:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Weekend Fox is much more Fair and Balanced
August 17, 2008, 7:39:50 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
Mark,
 
Just because you believe that a network is not fair and balanced does not mean that it isn't.
 
Is Fox PERFECTLY fair and balanced? No, nothing is ever PERFECTLY fair and balanced.
 
Does Fox beat the industry standard for being fair and balanced? Yeah . . . and it is not even close. The diversity of Fox viewers demonstrates its diversity on content.
 
You have not made an effective argument to prove the Fox is less Fair and Balanced than the industry standard.
 
Until you do, your repeated mindless parroting of "it's not fair and balanced . . . it's not and balanced." is not worth considering. Go repeat your lie somewhere else.
 
BTW: BOR (who is less conservative than you think) often has guests who disagree with him. Often these are Fox commentators. On the other hand, Olby rarely has a guest who disagrees with him.
 
Olby's policy does not sound balanced to me. If fair and balanced is what really concerns you, you should be complaining about Olby before you complain about BOR,
August 17, 2008, 7:41:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
I guess a memeber of the Fox News thinks its ok to be hit by a terrorist thats really ( Fair and Balanced) and they Olberman is a psycho
August 17, 2008, 7:42:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
"And if Al Qaeda comes in here and blows you up, we're not going to do anything about it. We're going to say, look, every other place in America is off limits to you, except San Francisco. You want to blow up the Coit Tower? Go ahead."
 
Who is the "we" in the statement that "we're not going to do anything about it"?
 
It's the American military.
 
O'Reilly was arguing that the federal government should tell the city of San Francisco that if the city government banned the US military from the city (recruiting stations, port facilities) then the military should say that if - if - terrorists strike SF that the military shouldn't help them out.
 
That's an ugly view by BO and I reject it.
 
But it's far different than saying that it would be "okay" to attack SF.
 
O'Reilly's point was that if the city of San Francisco is so opposed and hostile to the military and makes every effort to keep them out of the city, why should the military help the city when they need the help?
 
It's an ugly argument that I reject; but it's not the same as wanting the city to be attacked.
August 17, 2008, 7:44:03 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
You do hit the nail squarely on the head, UU. My morning viewership habits, exactly. One of the El Paso stations use to have a Chihuahua who would do the weather forecast. Sunglasses, raincoats, windbreakers, a ski jacket .... Walk across the set. If F&F would unload Carlson, bring back Camarata and hire that Chihuahua, I'd watch Camarata, the Chihuahua and Kilmeade. It's not like a national weather forecast means much, anyway, unless you live in Andorra.
August 17, 2008, 7:46:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> I would like to know in comparison to how much Hannity talk to how much Colmes talks
 
A minute you were pretending Colmes wasn't even on the show. Their participation in the show is timed via stopwatch. Each gets an equal amount of time.
August 17, 2008, 7:46:43 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> That's an ugly view by BO and I reject it.
 
It was also a use of hyperbole to make a point, as the rest of the conversation demonstrated. It was over the top, but it shouldn't be misrepresented as something it wasn't.
August 17, 2008, 7:48:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
So, if I read what the rabid FNC fans are saying, FNC should change it's slogan to "Olbermann is Worse than We Are." I don't think I have a dog in that fight, but it is an interesting marketing strategy.
August 17, 2008, 7:48:53 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Well actually you forget Colmes is even on the show because Hannity always cutting him off, Where is this mythical stopwatch and who has it
August 17, 2008, 7:49:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
That would be a waste of money. Why tell people something they already know?
August 17, 2008, 7:49:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
No there slogan should be We are Fair and Balanced (except for Doocy, Carlson & Hannity)
August 17, 2008, 7:50:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> because Hannity always cutting him off
 
I think the key number is 26. Just keep saying it until you get to 26 times, and then whatever it is, it automatically becomes true! Anything beyond 26 times is gravy.
August 17, 2008, 7:51:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply


HaggisFarmer
"You want to blow up the Coit Tower? Go ahead."
 
I'm sorry, I just don't understand how you can defend that...Would be a different story if Keith had said it, I imagine
August 17, 2008, 7:53:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Thats is the most dillusional thing I have ever heard. And yes, 26 is right (how many times he cuts off alan)
August 17, 2008, 7:53:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Olby Sucks
But didn't Bill say he'd be OK with a terrorist attack in SF?
HaggisFarmer | 08.17.08 - 7:16 pm | # 
 
That's what the newshounds told him, so, it must be true!
August 17, 2008, 7:55:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Does anyone in here know who is the highest paid newscaster on fox? i was suprised when i read it
August 17, 2008, 7:56:24 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
I think that Fox should continue to use the fair and balanced slogan until another news network can demonstrate they are more fair and balanced.
 
The F&B crown belongs to Fox until then,
August 17, 2008, 7:56:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
How can anyone justify or argue what Oreilly said, no one not the devil himslef can justify that
August 17, 2008, 7:57:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
The F&B crown belonged to Tim Russert and only Tim Russert
August 17, 2008, 7:58:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
its Shep
(the highest paid anchor on Fox he make like 5 million a year)
August 17, 2008, 7:59:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
JJ$ It was also a use of hyperbole to make a point, as the rest of the conversation demonstrated. It was over the top, but it shouldn't be misrepresented as something it wasn't I agree but even hyperbole must be held to some standard. O'Reilly obviously, pace HF and UU, didn't think it would be "okay" for AQ to hit SF. But he could have made the same point simply by pointing out that the policies of San Francisco are hurting the same military they would want rescuing them if the city was attacked. And that the city denigrates and condemns the same military that would rescue them in an emergency.nbsp;
It was also a use of hyperbole to make a point, as the rest of the conversation demonstrated. It was over the top, but it shouldn't be misrepresented as something it wasn't
 
I agree but even hyperbole must be held to some standard.
 
O'Reilly obviously, pace HF and UU, didn't think it would be "okay" for AQ to hit SF.
 
But he could have made the same point simply by pointing out that the policies of San Francisco are hurting the same military they would want rescuing them if the city was attacked.
 
And that the city denigrates and condemns the same military that would rescue them in an emergency.
August 17, 2008, 8:00:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
i think al jazeera news is more fair and balanced than fox
August 17, 2008, 8:00:11 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
Certainly, the crown does not belong to Chris Matthews.
August 17, 2008, 8:01:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Ed Hill (terroist fist jab) Boy that was fair and balanced
August 17, 2008, 8:03:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
U&U,
 
If you want to be protected by somebody, don't disparage them. That is what BOR was trying to say.
 
You don't agree with that? You think that it is a good idea to disparage people you want to risk their lives to save you?
 
How silly.
August 17, 2008, 8:04:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
O'Reilly's hyperbolic statement cannot be explained away (and certainly not by diminishing it by saying NH printed the DIRECT QUOTATION by O'Reilly. Geez!). But, I doubt anyway believes O'Reilly meant that literally. Just acknowledge he said it and disengage from the ridiculous finesse job. O'Reilly is a hot head who says intemperate things from time-to-time. Big surprise. It's forgiveable.
 
And yes, I know Olbermann, who I may even dislike more than I do O'Reilly said ... blah, blah, blah.
August 17, 2008, 8:05:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
O'Reilly did not say it would be okay to blow up the Coit Tower.
 
O'Reilly said that the military should tell San Francisco that if the city wanted the military out of the area that the military should respond by telling them that they wouldn't help if AQ attacked them.
 
E.g., "You want us soldiers out? Okay, then if you're hit we won't help you! It'll be okay with us [the military] if the Coit Tower is attacked. We won't help!".
 
It's a crude and over-the-top point. But it's not saying that O'Reilly thinks "it's okay to attack San Francisco".
 
If critics can't see the difference, it's because they don't want to. 
 
Which they don't.
August 17, 2008, 8:07:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
One thing we can all agree on is that is that Steve Harrigan and his crew were totally awesome in their reporting of the Georgia - Soviet Union conflict. Thats is what newsreporting is all about.
August 17, 2008, 8:09:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> Ed Hill (terroist fist jab)
 
Yes she should be condemned for referencing an example from Time magazine of what the fist bump does NOT mean. Of course Time reporting it is perfectly fine. E.D. referencing it is evil.
 
I still regard this as one of the worst concocted controversies of all time.
August 17, 2008, 8:12:52 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Well no, Chris leans toward Obama , which is fine with me. But no body can argue the Nbc has the most fair and balanced Brokaw, Williams, Mitchell and to a point Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough
August 17, 2008, 8:13:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Time magazine did have an article but the reason there was such a stink was because it was a ratings scam (the show was the lowest rated on Fox ) also it was fox and every knows for is anti Obama.
August 17, 2008, 8:19:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
I may be entirely wrong about this, but it seems as if E.D.'s career is suffering because of this (and I do think it was more like a bad joke than it was anything malicious or contrived). Do you have the same sense, JD, or is she in an apparent eclipse for other reasons?
August 17, 2008, 8:19:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
"And, I really don't think the big FNC fans believe in this fairness and balance charade, either. Otherwise, they would not be so shrill and defensive, so prone to personally attack those who have the utter temerit to disagree with them."-Mark
 
For examples of shrill and defensive and personal (as well as vulgar) attacks, please see: Newshounds.
------
 
Being conservative is not shameful. Why act as if it were?
Mark | 08.17.08 - 7:28 pm
 
Acting shameful for being conservative is a mutually exclusive oxymorom.
-----
 
So, if I read what the rabid FNC fans are saying, FNC should change it's slogan to "Olbermann is Worse than We Are." 
Mark | 08.17.08 - 7:53 pm | # 
 
For an example of shrill and defensive and a blanket (personal) attack, please see: "rabid FNC fans."
August 17, 2008, 8:22:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Average American Patriot
johnny dollar | Homepage | 08.17.08 - 8:17 pm
================
 
What were you saying about the 
"Tu Quoque" fallacy, Johnny.
 
And of course you, Johnny, are going to tell us what "the TERRORIST fist bump" does not mean.
August 17, 2008, 8:25:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
think al jazeera news is more fair and balanced than fox
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 8:05 pm | # 
 
Unnecessary comment. Facts in evidence. Established fact. Something even Ray Charles could have seen.
August 17, 2008, 8:26:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
High ratings do not mean integrity, I mean you have a network that has Friel, Banderas, Macallum, Nauert, Kelly shoot if I had the time I would watch fox all the time to see those hooties, that is one thing Fox has over the rest, lots of hotties
August 17, 2008, 8:29:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
It might have been unecessary, but so was Sean Hannitys saying it was ok for MCCain to cheat on his wife but not ok for Edwards.
August 17, 2008, 8:32:49 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
But honestly Ed Hill is better than Carlson.
August 17, 2008, 8:33:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Fox's new slogan simply "We hate Obama"
August 17, 2008, 8:37:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Did Alan Colmes agree with him? Why are people so upset that a rabid partisan like Hannity is allowed to say things that sometimes are outrageously vapid, when you have someone else on the same show there to argue the other side?
 
OK I get it. You don't like Hannity. But that's why Colmes is there. This isn't like Countdown: one viewpoint only. It's a debate show, with two partisans taking opposite sides. I don't get the constant citing of Hannity who always has a counterpoint opposite view facing him. Is it that you even object to Hannity's view being represented at all, even when there's someone sitting there to rebut it?
 
People need to grow up and do some critical thinking.
August 17, 2008, 8:37:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> Fox's new slogan simply "We hate Obama"
 
Did I just say something about people need to grow up?
August 17, 2008, 8:41:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
By "rabid Fox Fans," I mean exactly that, i.e. a type of Fax Fan. Not all Fox Fans are rabid. Fox Fan, Johnny, Mike, you - none of you seem in the least rabid. You all seem to have formed an opinion in a logical fashion, an opinion which is different than mine, to be sure, but not in the least objectionable. I might disagree with your conclusion, but your opinion is valid and valuable and ought to be respected as an honest expression of your beliefs.
---
As to Al Jazeera, have you ever watched it, vstol? I have on trips to Europe and the Middle East, and it all seems very reasonable to me. There is a different slant, different emphases, of course, but it seems quite reputable to me. AN honest effort at objectivity. On a given night, Al Jazeera, the BBC, CNN International and FNC are likely to lead with the same stories, before Al Jazeera goes off to details on the Afghan black market, the BBC discusses dramatic crashes on the M4, CNN moves to relief efforts in Darfur and FNC goes to a story about bridesmaids being forced by brides to have botox treatments.
August 17, 2008, 8:41:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
But hannity is such a dominating personality there are time he seems not to be there.
August 17, 2008, 8:42:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
I may be entirely wrong about this 
 
Yep Mark, you are wrong as usual. Hill is doing fine.
 
It is Time's subscriptions that have plummented.
 
It is only fitting because Time was the real culprit in fist bumping story.
August 17, 2008, 8:43:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
Of course, Johnny, as you well know many center and left-of-center people, myself included, believe Colmes is most often a particularly ineffective, weak voice. I think Alan has a keen mind and a big heart, but he has a very weak voice. It is something akin to having paired Ginger Rogers with Larry Fine.
August 17, 2008, 8:45:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
It's amazing how many factually and analytically challenged posts from the left I am seeing today.
 
Sean Hannity NEVER said it was "OK" for McCain to cheat, "so was Sean Hannitys saying it was ok for MCCain to cheat on his wife" is a flat out lie.
 
Hannity defended McCain when the Edwards supporters deflected criticism of Edwards by pointing out what McCain supposedly has done.
 
Any "defense" Hannity mounted was when those on the left tried to establish moral equivalance between what McCain and Edwards actions.
 
Hannity was pointing out that this cheating happened right after McCain returned to the US after being tortured for over five years. He also pointed out that McCain NEVER lied to the American People about the affair.
August 17, 2008, 8:45:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
It might have been unecessary, but so was Sean Hannitys saying it was ok for MCCain to cheat on his wife but not ok for Edwards.
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 8:37 pm | #
 
Not only would it have been unnecessary, it would have been untrue, if he had said that, which he did not. Sen. McCain agrees with you that it was wrong and there was no excuse for it. 
 
Please, stop making stuff up.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
August 17, 2008, 8:46:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
It is pointless to argue with someone who is suffering from the pains of growing up.
August 17, 2008, 8:47:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Olby Sucks
its Shep
(the highest paid anchor on Fox he make like 5 million a year)
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 8:04 pm | # 
 
I believe Bill makes 10 mil. No?
August 17, 2008, 8:50:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply


david smawley
Ed Hill, new FoxNews hire? I am tired of U&U's hijacking of this site.
August 17, 2008, 9:02:43 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Thats what it said in tv guide.
August 17, 2008, 9:04:50 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
hey vstol
I thought Johnny Dollar said no personal attacks but it ok if you are on his side. Ill give you that one, Ill just consider the source
August 17, 2008, 9:06:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
David I appreciate your comment. There has been quite a bit of blog hogging going on lately.
August 17, 2008, 9:07:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
Mark | 08.17.08 - 8:46 pm | #
 
Mark, you are correct about Al Jazeera. It isn't the devil the uninformed point it out to be, at least, not all of the time. I don't know if any of you have seen this video, but it's an agnostic arabic woman who goes head to head with an Islamic man and she BURYS HIM with reason on Al Jazeera. I bet Vince P has seen this.
 
http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null
August 17, 2008, 9:18:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 9:11 pm | # 
 
Please cite a personal attack by me.
August 17, 2008, 9:20:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
Mark,
 
So Hannity Debates like Ginger Rogers danced in her prime?
 
And Colmes' debates like the least noticed of the three stooges?
 
Not even Ellen Brodsky would say that. She is often quite laudatory her comments about Colmes. And, she has absolutely nothing good to say about Hanniity.
 
Maybe you should write to Colmes, expressing your opinion of him. Be sure and call him a Stalinist.
 
Maybe your note could end up on Alan's hate mail.
 
Then, you would be famous.
August 17, 2008, 9:33:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
when you told me i suffer from the pains of growing up.
August 17, 2008, 9:34:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
Not even Ellen Brodsky would say that. She is often quite laudatory her comments about Colmes. And, she has absolutely nothing good to say about Hanniity.Danny | 08.17.08 - 9:38 pm 
 
You might want to retract that statement. Miracles do happen
August 17, 2008, 9:46:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
I think a good idea for a show would be one with Hannity and Olberman debating each other with Anderson Cooper as the moderator, You would have the left vs the right and the middle moderating . Then put it on pay per view
August 17, 2008, 9:46:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 9:51 pm | #
 
UU, I've suggested the same in the past (minus Cooper). I'd love to see Hannity and Olbermann one-on-one. I'm not sure which one would explode first!
August 17, 2008, 9:54:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
U&U,
 
But Olbermann doesn't debate. He only likes to talk to sycophants.
 
That's why he is unfair and unbalanced.
August 17, 2008, 9:56:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
when you told me i suffer from the pains of growing up.
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 9:39 pm | 
 
I was talking to Johnny, not you. I did not mention any names, although I do understand how you might think I was talking to you about you.
August 17, 2008, 10:02:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
I think a good idea for a show would be one with Hannity and Olberman debating each other with Anderson Cooper as the moderator, You would have the left vs the right and the middle moderating 
 
But how do you know Olbermann is on the political left?
 
He says he keeps his own opinions out of his news show. And Phil Griffin assures us that "Keith calls it straight" during the "Countdown" news cast. Remember: it's a news cast and not an opinion or talk show.
 
For all we know, Olbermann may be a right wing conservative.
 
If that turns out so, we'll have an unbalanced program.
August 17, 2008, 10:24:37 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
Does Olberman ever say that he is Fair and Balanced I dont think so. He even admits it
August 17, 2008, 10:26:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Danny
U&U,
 
Also you should remember Mark's words that Hannity debates like Ginger Rogers once danced.
 
And Olbermann is no Fred Astaire (figuratively speaking or otherwise).
August 17, 2008, 10:27:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
My money would be that they both would pass out from sheer madness.
August 17, 2008, 10:27:51 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> Does Olberman ever say that he is Fair and Balanced I dont think so.
 
Please see 7:32 pm above.
August 17, 2008, 10:33:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


SteveMG
Does Olberman ever say that he is Fair and Balanced I dont think so. He even admits it
 
When has he ever admitted to having a one-sided or "un-balanced" news show?
 
Citation please.
August 17, 2008, 10:41:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
By "rabid Fox Fans," I mean exactly that, i.e. a type of Fax Fan. Not all Fox Fans are rabid. Fox Fan, Johnny, Mike, you - none of you seem in the least rabid. Mark | 08.17.08 - 8:46 pm ------
 
This is what you said:
 
So, if I read what the rabid FNC fans are saying, FNC should change it's slogan to "Olbermann is Worse than We Are." 
Mark | 08.17.08 - 7:53 pm |
 
Sounds shrill to me. And just who are the "rabid Fox Fans" that you were reading? Ashley, SteveMg, OS? Johnny and Danny both spoke quite critically of KO, but you say they are not "rabid Fox Fans."
 
Is calling someone "rabid" considered a personal attack in your neighborhood? Is calling an unnamed group of people "rabid" considered a blanket personal attack by the folks you chill with? You didn't need to explain to me what you meant. I knew exactly what you meant.
 
Al Jazeera:
 
Yes, I have watched Al Jazeera, usually on-line; occasionally on satellite. I do not believe I said anything negative about Al Jazeera. In fact, I didn't say anything about Al Jazeera at all.
 
If you eliminated all of your opinions that are based on false assumptions, you might not have any opinions at all.
August 17, 2008, 10:42:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Unfair and unbalanced
i said that Olberman never admits to being fair and balanced, but he call out people who say they are, whats the deal
August 17, 2008, 10:46:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Dann
U&U,
 
Does Olby call out himself for saying the he (Olby) is politically neutral when he is clearly not?
August 17, 2008, 11:12:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 10:51 pm | #
 
Olbermann said "I am not politically biased" in johnny's quote above. Being fair and balanced is being "not politically biased".
 
Olby lied.
August 17, 2008, 11:15:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
vstol: Very well constructed argument. I'll be interested in Mark's response.
August 17, 2008, 11:17:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Dann
U&U,
 
Let me caution you. You CAN say a stupid thing 26 times and it is still a stupid thing,
August 17, 2008, 11:18:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Olby Sucks
Does Olberman ever say that he is Fair and Balanced I dont think so. He even admits it
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 10:31 pm | # 
 
i said that Olberman never admits to being fair and balanced, but he call out people who say they are, whats the deal
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 10:51 pm | # 
 
"I am not politically biased". --Keith Olbermann, Feb 6 2007
August 17, 2008, 11:42:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply


A ve r a g e American Patrio t
[message deleted for rules violations: language, personal attacks, off-topic]

Edited By Siteowner
August 18, 2008, 12:11:58 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
A rabid FOX fan, vstol, would be a person who:
 
1. Is agenda-driven to seek out affirmation and confirmation in reporting which:
 
a. Fails to be critical of opinions held by that person, fails to test the ideas of that person.
 
b. Presents the news selectively in such a fashion that opposing views, if aired at all, are held to scorn and ridicule.
 
2. Does not seek out and actively blocks out news and information from other sources which might tend to give balance or serve as a check.
 
3. Holds that any criticism of FOX is invalid, often driven by a personal agenda.
 
4. Questions the motives, even at times the patriotism of those who do not wholly buy into the FOX line.
 
5. Impugns the intelligence and integrity of other people who do not share their strict allegiance to FOX.
 
You can fill in the blanks as to who fits into this category. I am willing to say, however, that you do not, for a variety of reasons, including the fact that you have acknowledged receiving news and information from other sources. As I noted above, Fox Fan, Johnny, Mike do not. They are drawn to FOX for positive reasons and do not view it as infallible. Some of those who view me as their nemesis, including Cecelia and Sharon, also fit into this category. The list is by enumeration, only, and is not complete.
 
You, no doubt, are a student of history, and you are familiar with the Father Coughlin phenomenon. There are some, not only on this blog, but elsewhere, who are such slavish devotees of FOX that they are Coughlinesque. They are the rabid ones. Again, I leave it to you to fill in the blanks. I am sure you can do it effectively and well.
August 18, 2008, 12:23:53 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Olby Sucks
Where's these "weapons" cakes is crying about?
August 18, 2008, 1:02:00 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
Unfair and unbalanced | 08.17.08 - 9:51 pm | # 
 
U&U states that Olby is "the left".
 
Olby states he is not politically biased.
 
Sounds like U&U don't know Olby from Shinola.
August 18, 2008, 1:12:08 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
Olby Sucks | 08.18.08 - 1:07 am | # 
 
Must be all the facts the right minded posters have been wielding today. I don't know why AVP went into such a venomous tirade.
August 18, 2008, 1:14:15 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Dann
Mark,
 
Basically, you could take your definition of a rabid Fox Fan and apply it to yourself. No, you don't share the media philosophy as what you call a rabid Fox Fan, but you do share the same mentality.
 
If your definition is to be operative, then I would call you a rabid . . . (and let someone else fill in the blank).
August 18, 2008, 1:35:41 AM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
Mark | 08.18.08 - 12:28 am 
 
I did not ask you for, nor am I particularly interested in, your definition of a "rabid Fox Fan."
 
I did ask you if calling someone "rabid" would be considered a personal attack. A question that remains unanswered. It's a simple question. Yes or no? Don't wait for the translation, yes or no?
August 18, 2008, 1:42:46 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Dann
Ashley,
 
Ellen Brodsky put him up to it. He was only doing what Ellen told him to do . . . in writing!!
August 18, 2008, 1:43:57 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
"There are some, not only on this blog, but elsewhere, who are such slavish devotees of FOX that they are Coughlinesque. They are the rabid ones."
 
Scott.
August 18, 2008, 10:12:36 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Mark
Descriptive? Yes. Pejorative? Yes. A personal attack? I don't think so, particularly in light of the definition I gave about which you were not interested.
 
The triangulation is now confirmed, so as I have ceased responding to one of the three (3) provocateurs or one of the three (3) personae of one (1) provocateur, I now cease responding to yet another. Enjoy.
August 18, 2008, 10:16:45 AM EDT – Like – Reply


vstol
Mark,
 
Lighten up. What's the problem with wanting an answer to a simple question? It really wasn't that hard, was it? Your answer was pretty much what I expected and I have no reason to doubt you, well, that's not quite accurate. You know, recent history. But it's a new day, a fresh start, a clean slate, washed clean by cable news coverage of Fay.
Your definition would have garned some interest once you answered the question, an answer by the way, which would have put your definition in its proper perspective.
 
Time for hurricane prep. It's gonna be a Fox Fay Watch.
August 18, 2008, 11:09:02 AM EDT – Like – Reply