1/6/09 12:37 PM

Tuesday Links & Open Thread

Latest cable news links [updated through the day]:

Will Keith retract? Video: today's Hardball segment. Alan weighs in. Greta: I want an apology too!

Cablers plan exhaustive convention coverage.


Greta pix from her Beijing stop.

Larry King cerealized.

Monday's numbers. Weekend numbers. Weekly ranker.

Deleted diary retrieved.

Profile: Bill Hemmer.

Scarborough: no Republicans here.

Hotline quotes.

Who killed the Unitarians?
Fox News, of course!!

MSNBC's digital café opens.

CNBC crowns a winner.

Today's firing demand.

Use our valuable bandwidth to post your comments on any and all cable news topics in today's open thread. Standard rules apply.

Mike C.
Finally, a firing demand I can get behind.
July 29, 2008, 1:27:25 AM EDT – Like – Reply

The thoughtful and well-written piece by Eskow assigns blame to a culture of intolerance. There is intolerance on the right and on the left, to be sure. But, the former has an organized, institutionalized quality to it. Intolerance was an honored and key element in the Rovian electoral processes and has been a noticeable feature or characteristic of this Administration throughout its existence. Yesterday, alone, we had the Goodling report which is subject to little other interpretation. FNC has allowed itself to be used as an agent of intolerance, in a fashion directly tied to the Administration, via the well-established talking points dissemination, but also on its own standing. I know of no network, no editorial board, no assemblage of media personalities as filled with agents of intolerance, both as employees and as recurring guests, as FNC. Carlson, Coulter, Doocy, Hannity, Ingraham, Morris, O'Reilly, et al, are key agents of intolerance. They contibute, on an on-going basis, to a coarsening of our society, to a viral intolerance. They are not alone. We can look to other agents in other media outlets. Beck, Brown, Dobbs, Limbaugh, Wiener all come immediately to mind. And, not all personalities on FNC are agents of intolerance. Barnes, Kondracke, even Krauthammer, et al, come to mind. Yet, Eskow is correct. Those who breed intolerance are borne of it. The Tennessee shootings were not because of FNC. Far from it. But, agents of intolerance all about us nurtured those, nurtured he, who engaged in the criminality.
July 29, 2008, 7:53:57 AM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark, this Eskow guy is insane, and you're backing him up?
Like it or not, there IS a God and He and His ways are depiced in the Bible. Our God also gave us all free will; people such as the Knoxville shooter chose that specific course of action, and NO ONE else made him do it. Hannity, Doocy and O'Reilly choose to believe Biblical principles and speak accordingly; people have a free will to agree with them or not, or even watch them or not. To slam them for their rhetoric goes against all tenets of free speech, does it not?
Liberals simply LOVE to blame others for certain actions. Personal responsibility is a foreign concept to them; it's much easier to blame conservatives or Christians for having a solid moral basis.  
When Christians or conservatives don't live up to Biblical teachings, we blame ourselves; when liberals fail, they blame others, as did Eskow in this case.  
And just because we choose to believe what is written in the Word of God, we are accused of being "interolerant" and "bigots". So I am now going to accuse you and Mr. Eskow of being intolerant toward OUR religious beliefs. There - you two are guilty of a hate crime! How does that sound?
July 29, 2008, 9:51:06 AM EDT – Like – Reply

"depicted", not "depiced"
July 29, 2008, 9:53:58 AM EDT – Like – Reply

right as always
Missy you lost to Mark on this one.

Edited By Siteowner
July 29, 2008, 10:07:33 AM EDT – Like – Reply

Missy, I long ago decided to endow Eskow's sort of reasoning and the sort of sentiments expressed by the blue blogger about Novak's misfortune, with the seriousness that this sort of faulty generalizations, malevolent opportunism, and anti-intellectual cheap shots, deserve.  
And what they deserve is that they be recognized as an attempt to tar and feather all and sundry political opponents and to eventually squelch part of the national discussion, whether it be about centuries old religious doctrine or current events.
Which is to say I wouldn't endow this mess with any seriousness at all. Just back very quietly away from its purveyors and softly shut the door behind. It's the best thing you can do for them. After all, they ardently wish to be alone with only their own voices or they'd never condescend to such moronic dribble in the first place.
July 29, 2008, 10:46:53 AM EDT – Like – Reply

Although I think it is generally a good idea to be skeptical about Eskow, I do think he made a good point in the piece selected. Americanism involves an individualism that generally says to government and to the community, "Leave me the hell alone, unless and until ...." That's a positive thing. It is our strength. It is largely the opposite of European communalism (not communism, not socialism) which says, "I am part of this government, this community, except when ...." That is a European strength. But, at once, you see the danger in the divisiveness we have endured during the Gingrich/Rovian era. The divisiveness is such that we don't pull together at those times we must. Since those times are rare, we are immeasurably weakened. That is why we have to be so concerned about matters such as parroting Administration talking points and the intentional and artificial divisiveness inflicted upon us by the media, especially some cable news and some talk radio. Eskow may not be commendable, but he has an important point in this instance.
July 29, 2008, 11:52:29 AM EDT – Like – Reply

The gunman was also a "victim" of the economic injustice the left touts to justify bad behavior of others. Why is this theory not mentioned regarding his rampage? I recall economics being their excuse for islamic terrorists. The theories to why people do such bad things just seem to be all over the map. Reading a book, watching a news channel, attending a certain church, losing one's job, etc. etc....I think the fact that there is a "soup du jour" quality of the arrogant left's pronouncements of the why's of life and death speaks volumes to the idea that it is always an opportunity for them to use fear to advance their ideology. An ideology we all should know is best for us and should stand alone.
July 29, 2008, 11:58:03 AM EDT – Like – Reply

Royal King
I was home a short while ago and saw one of my favorties, Hemmer, for a few minutes. He and some dittzy woman were moving Obama's head to McCain's body and vice-versa. I wanted to cry. A great news man reduced to F&F status! Only at FNC.
July 29, 2008, 1:37:36 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mike C.
What time was this?
July 29, 2008, 2:02:37 PM EDT – Like – Reply

johnny dollar
I wouldn't bother asking. I checked the tivo and could find no such incident.
July 29, 2008, 2:08:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mike C.
That's what I thought.
July 29, 2008, 2:22:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply

olby sucks
I see a nuke in 1:42's future.
July 29, 2008, 2:41:51 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark's posts are a great example of the expressions "lipstick on a pig."
A good example of liberal tolerance:,/i>
The City of San Francisco looking the other way as an illegal immigrant with a criminal record whom they could not bring themselves to deport, guns down a father and his two sons. in cold blood because they blocked his car  
If that is tolerance, that Mark and Eskow favor, I'll take the Fox "intolerance" every time!
July 29, 2008, 3:54:24 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mike C.
Johnny, drifting.
July 29, 2008, 4:04:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply

johnny dollar
Yeah, drifting a bit. Let's focus, guys.
July 29, 2008, 4:05:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply

At its core, Eskow's article totally rejects individualism. He views the gunman as a helpless pawn who is driven insane (partly because of economic reasons) and then programmed (as he puts it) by society to commit murder.
In other words, the gunman is not responsible for his own actions but he is totally driven by outside forces.
Who is most responsible for his programming? Why it is the evangelical preachers who (among other offenses) have dared to preach that homosexual acts are sinful, and they have dared to take a stand against those who say that there is no God and we are free to set up our own standards of morality (secular humanists).
Then, abruptly he accuses Sean Hannity, Dick Morris, and the entire Fox News network with helping the evil evangelical preachers “program” the poor helpless robot (uh, I mean man) to kill.
The man problem with the article is as follows: He irrationally tries to establish linkages where there are no linkages.  
You could, for example, just as easily establish a linkage between the secular humanists and the murder. Remember Doesteyevky’s masterpiece THE BROTHERS KARAMOZOV. I van Karamozov preaches that there is no God, so everything is permissible. Ivan’s half brother takes the message to heart, and he kills their father and frames his brother Dimitri for the misdeed. “There is no God, so everything is permissible, right Ivan”?
Can Eskow show one instance where the preachers that he mentioned have advocated shooting people . . . even shooting sinners . . . in cold blood? You can’t hold people accountable just because they write words or take a stand against things. You can’t hold Mothers Against Drunk Driving accountable every time a wino is beaten up . . . even though Mothers Against Drunk Driving preach that unrestrained alcoholism is a great evil. You can’t hold the Beatles responsible for Sharan Tate’s murder, because the Manson gang was inspired by “fab four’s” song HELTER SKELTER, and the Manson followers even wrote the title of the Beatle song on the wall of Tate’s home in blood.
How the entire Fox News Channel gets blamed as the chief programming instrument of these “evil” preachers is really mind boggling. Does the Fox news channel carry any evangelical services on its channel . . . even on Sunday? Interestingly, ABC and Disney (which owns ABC) totally escape criticism. This is the case despite the fact that The Family Channel (also owned by Disney) actually carries Pat Robertson’s program.  
People in the Fox News Network family are from diverse religious persuasions and political camps. Eskow’s argument really becomes absurd when he points an accusatory finger at Dick Morris. Dick Morris is a Jew. How in the wide world of sports is he related to the “evil” evangelical preachers and their “evil” programming? Escrow isn’t clear on that point because there is no way he can be.
The only common denominator between evangelical preachers, Sean Hannity, Dick Morris and the entire Fox News Network is that (for some insane reason) Escrow hates them all. It is a blind irrational hatred. Eskow’s hatred resembles the hatred the gunman felt towards the Unitarian Church. That church was in no way responsible for the (economic?) plight that Eskrow says drove the gunman insane. Irrationally (according to Escrow) the man made a linkage that weren't there, and he lashed out at people who had no responsibility for his situation. Similarly, Escrow is making linkages in his mind that aren’t really there and he is lashing out in print against those who were not responsible for the attack on the church.
Escrow is programming into insane people an improper form of behavior. He is telling crazy people everywhere that it is OK to attack people who are not responsible for their unhappy situation. If I had to blame someone other than the gunman (who really was the only one at fault), I would blame Escrow. It was Escrow who has blood on his hands. It was he who murdered those poor, innocent people in the Unitarian Church.
God forgive Escrow for his truly dastardly act!!
July 29, 2008, 4:46:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Johnny...what royal king was referring too was a photo of McCain and Obama that was shown on Happening Now...Bill filled in for Trace today..
July 29, 2008, 4:54:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply

johnny dollar
I know about the photo. But I didn't see Hemmer or anyone else moving heads from one body to the other and vice-versa. That never happened.
July 29, 2008, 5:02:35 PM EDT – Like – Reply

No you are right....They were just showing a photo that is out there....Fox didnt do it....
July 29, 2008, 5:18:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply

johnny dollar
Why do people make up stuff like that? Do they really think nobody will catch them? Sigh. I guess anything is justified if you're attacking Fox, even not telling the truth.
July 29, 2008, 5:22:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Why do people make up stuff like that? Do they really think nobody will catch them? Sigh. I guess anything is justified if you're attacking Fox, even not telling the truth.
johnny dollar | Homepage | 07.29.08 - 5:27 pm |
I blame Fox News...
July 29, 2008, 6:15:19 PM EDT – Like – Reply

I would have loved to have told Eskow how utterly wrong he was on Huffington Post, but Arianna banned me a long time ago. (No, I didn't cuss anybody out over there, and I didn't ever insult anybody. They just didn't like me speaking real truth to power.)
July 29, 2008, 7:47:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply

olby sucks
Johnny...what royal king was referring too was a photo of McCain and Obama that was shown on Happening Now...Bill filled in for Trace today..
Wenchie | 07.29.08 - 4:59 pm | #  
He's a namejackin troll who was here to disrupt. Period.
July 29, 2008, 8:16:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply

The murder of several innocent Unitarians because of their church's "liberal" ideology is pretty telling about Fox's bias.
If several white evangelicals were murdered by liberal activists, the screaming outrage from Fox would last through the next two elections. Non-stop coverage. Every show. from Fox & Friends to O'Reilly to H&C. A non-stop litany of guests who would be brought on to repeat the same talking points that liberals are murderous and out of control.
Some liberals are murdered and Fox almost completely ignores it. Not surprising. Bias it what it's all about.
July 29, 2008, 8:46:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Fox Fan
FoxSucks | 07.29.08 - 8:51 pm | #
First off, it tells nothing about FNC. Second, "several" people were not murdered. Third, there were not a bunch of "activists" doing the shooting. Fourth, FNC hardly ignored it. Fifth, enjoy the Kool Aid.
Also, it could never happen the way you describe because liberals expect the gigantic government to protect them and don't need eeevil guns; that's why guns should be illegal.
July 29, 2008, 9:21:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply

What the hell are you talking about. Do you even know?
In the first place the story was not ignored by Fox. Shep Smith, for example, did a rather lengthy story on the tragedy. The video is still up at the Fox News site.
Secondly, you are correct that Fox would have devoted far more time to the story if the man were a liberal activist . . . or a conservative activist for that matter. By activist I mean someone who has been a a leader in generating publicity for a cause.
This gunman was no activist. He was a loner . . . a loser. . . . a man without a job . . . an insane person consumed with irrational hatred. There was nothing special or noteworthy about him. Unfortunately, people like him are far too common. He probably got more than the amount of infamy that he deserved.
You need to put a check on your irrational hatred of Fox News, so that you don't become just like him.
July 29, 2008, 9:38:54 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Fox Fan
Danny, thank you for expanding on my points.  
However, FS can't become just like the shooter because of my last point.
July 29, 2008, 9:43:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply

olby sucks
'fox sucks' is nothing more than a disgruntled troll/newshound. He knows good and well Fox covered the story. He's just desperate.
July 29, 2008, 9:46:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply

The Factor
Carlson, Coulter, Doocy, Hannity, Ingraham, Morris, O'Reilly, et al, are key agents of intolerance.
Mark | 07.29.08 - 7:58 am | #  
Be care about your speech around Mark the good German. You might be convicted of a thought crime. Mark doesn't need to hear or read what you actually say. He just knows you are guilty of a thought crime because you don't preach liberal dogma. Be careful not to cut yourself when you shave your head and lace up your boots Mark. Their are EVIL thought criminals on Fox News who need to be stomped.
July 29, 2008, 10:47:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply

[message deleted for rules violation: off-topic]

I was ready to let this one go through, but you drifted off topic and at the very end you actually call for more people to discuss your off-topic non-cable-news political issue. Sorry. Edited By Siteowner
July 30, 2008, 7:22:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply