3/21/09 11:50 PM

Monday Links & Open Thread

Latest cable news links [7:10 pm]:

The Dhue resurfaces.

MSNBC's paradox?

What is HvZ?

Friday's numbers.

Q&A: Tony Snow.

Lauren Green: thinking Wright thoughts.

Video: Greta at the Press Club.

Enough with the Fox jokes?

Jeff Cohen resurfaces.

Congressmen pressure CNN.

Most influential pundits: 50-41.

ObamaWatch roundup, blogometer, numbers. "Shill"? Outrage!

Profile: Chris Wallace.

Alexis Glick plays MC in London.

What if...?

Hot & Not.

iPhone mugging: reunion.

CNN's game plan.

Aaron Brown resurfaces.

Use our valuable bandwidth to post your comments on any and all cable news topics in today's open thread. Standard rules apply.




On The Mark
Great news about Aaron Brown. I only wish he were going to be a regular on a broadcast or cable news program. Brown gave class to every program.
April 28, 2008, 7:37:09 AM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
I watched the 45 minutes of the first hour of "Morning Joe," thankfully without Scarborough and with (Tucker) Carlson, remote, and it seem that upwards of half the time was devoted to Rev. Wright. This is an issue to some people, and it is safe to assume that to some portion of this group for whom it is an issue, it is a legitimate issue. However, it is also safe to assume that to some portion of this group Rev. Wright is simply a vehicle for the interjection of race and racism into the discussion. Cable news, it seems, is walking a very thin line here. I think this line has already been crossed on radio, with Beck, Bortz and Hannity. I also think Dobbs and Hannity, and to a lesser extent, Scarborough, are beginning to pull up to that line on cable news. This is going to be very, very ugly and dangerous when it happens. Let's face it, inflammatory sermons and homilies are are part of worship in many churches, African-American and otherwise. They seldom merit even the slightest mention from an apostate or quasi-apostate American public. Yet, we have an African-American candidate, and the African-American pulpit becomes a vehicle for derision of not just the preacher, but also the worshippers. Yikes!
 
Contrast this with Hagee. If, as some of Rev. Wright's critics claim, Rev. Wright hates America, Hagee's hatred is of a far broader sort. Yet, to the extent the Hagee/McCain tie is discussed at all, it is to draw a distinction about the nature of the relationship to the candidate instead of a focus on the text of the sermon.
 
The crucial point and a highly inconvenient truth, one that will undoubtedly be overlooked by many here, is that the Republican party, the right wing, has been engaged in a very dirty dance with the extreme religious right for a number of years now, perhaps reaching its crescendo in the blanket Islamic fear and hatred engineered by Rove in the 2004 election of Bush. If Rev. Wright warrants condemnation, then what of the Hagee's of the religious community, and there are, regrettably, many, and what of cable news analysis of the Hagee's and ties with the Republican party? Rove is, after all, a commentator on FNC now (whilst being an advisor to McCain, a seldom disclosed phenomenon). Doesn't this get to be Olbermannesque on a far broader and grander scale, and doesn't this threaten to rupture a key artery of Republican money and support?
 
The cable news editors have a possibly formidable task ahead of them in resolving these issues, and I am eager to find out if they are up to the task. Frankly, I doubt they are. Yet, I do think the resolution will pull cable news kicking and screaming out of puberty.
April 28, 2008, 8:01:29 AM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
I read this interesting point of view somewhere. If Obama wins the presidency, how would that jive with the idea of racism in our country? A friend made this suggestion: if Obama is elected president, is the philosophy behind affirmative action still valid?  
 
The only person standing between Obama and the nomination is Hillary. Chris Matthews, in the tank for Obama, just now admonished Obama to sever the relationship with Wright. So, it can be said that Wright is blocking the way to Obama's presidency. Ironic, isn't it, the two people hindering Obama. I guess Obama can say to McCain, "I'll sever if you sever."
April 28, 2008, 8:53:04 AM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
Forgot to add that Wright's platform diminishes with an Obama win
April 28, 2008, 8:55:19 AM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
Forgot to add that Wright's platform diminishes with an Obama win
 
----
 
A very interesting and worthwhile POV.
 
While I admire Obama for not severing the Rev. Wright tie precipitously, I do think he has to do it now.
April 28, 2008, 9:05:18 AM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> Rove is, after all, a commentator on FNC now (whilst being an advisor to McCain, a seldom disclosed phenomenon).
 
I keep hearing this but is there a source for it? I thought I remember reading something that said he spoke with someone from the campaign once. Which, over the course of months, doesn't make it sound to me like he is "being an advisor to McCain".
April 28, 2008, 9:05:32 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
The Sklar piece is emblematic. I really think Olbermann gets in trouble over "misogyny" because he does treat women precisely as he treats men. Feminists so often want to play both sides, particularly when there's a political angle.  
 
The fact is, if Olbermann's analogy was used for a male candidate, there'd be no problem from any corner with it.
 
It goes without saying that a conservative would be excoriated if he uttered Olbermann's remark. THAT does not back up the argument that Olbermann is a misogynist. It makes him a hypocrite.  
 
The closest thing I see to misogynistic statements from Olbermann, in the sense that they are female-specific insults, is when he knocks actresses for being "party girls"... However, when you have a sex tape on the internet, publicity stunt leaks from your own camp about your wild night with so-and-so, and pictures of your bare upskirt va-j-j all over the internet, the consequences, girlfriend, is that someone might imply you're no different from Eliot Spitzer's kind of companion.
 
I'm sorry, it's certainly adolescent innuendo, but I can't work up a lot of feminist rage over any man or woman for that.
April 28, 2008, 9:07:54 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
I find myself wondering when Republican candidates weren't raked over the coals in the media for the Party's ties to Christian conservatives. Though their beliefs are far more reflective of the general population than are Wright's, they have been routinely portrayed in the media, and in movies and television in a way that makes OBL look reasonable by comparison.
 
When Pat Robertson makes a statement concerning the danger of God's judgment for sins of the flesh, abortion, the divorce rate, etc (areas that are far less political than Wright's stances) it is played endlessly in all the media, including FNC. His quoted words scroll across the bottoms of screens every five minutes in between.
 
We all know that ONE of the reasons John McCain enjoyed relative popularity in the media is that he has staked an area outside of the Christian conservative camp. After the Dems choose their candidate and attention is then focused intensely on McCain, we will--night and day see demands that he disavow Hagee, just as Bush and virtually every Republican candidate is pressured to do the same. It's not for nothing that one of the first questions asked of the Republican field of candidates was their personal beliefs in evolution and gay marriage.
 
McCain's counterbalance to his support for the Iraq War with Independents is that he is not known to embrace Christian conservatives. This willl be an issue for him as much as it is for Obama and his personae of bring folks together outside of racial considerations.
 
McCain is backing off from Hagee's support currently, in a way that is humorous and disinflammatory (I guess that's a word). The temptation with the Left is going to be to try and make everyone guilty of racism or at least the new-age crime of racial insensitivity when they criticize Obama's image contradictions. THAT will be so hard for them to resist. It's my personal opinion that constant emphasis on racial politics will hurt Obama more than it will McCain or his supporters.
 
We shall see.
April 28, 2008, 9:36:37 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Great point, Sharm! It's great to see you out and about too!
April 28, 2008, 9:42:48 AM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
On the Sklar piece, for me the extreme irony is Olby's spokesman or whoever sent her the apology makes a smart crack why didn't you call us first if you had a criticism. And Sklar, rightly, notes that is a courtesy that is never extended to the people Olbermann skewers in his nightly 'worst person' segment. Sklar has finally discovered Olbypocrisy.
April 28, 2008, 9:44:16 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Amen and amen, Johnny!
April 28, 2008, 9:46:19 AM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
The 8 March "Politico" article, unrebutted to my knowledge, seems to have started the discussion, which continues in a number of blogs and elsewhere, as shown by example (only, not including other repetitive sites) in the "Think Progess" link. "Newsweek" has been similarly criticized for non-disclosure.
 
"A top McCain adviser said both Mehlman and Rove are now informally advising the campaign."  
 
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=8B58A658-3048-5C12-006F9CBBFFC54DE3
 
Also:
 
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/13/rove-fox-mccain-adviser/
 
Finally:
 
"During a public conversation in Texas last night [25 March] with former Bush pollster Matthew Dowd, Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) media adviser, Mark Mckinnon, displayed 'maps of the states broken down by electoral votes' that gamed McCain’s chances in November. According to Texas Monthly’s Evan Smith, 'the printed header on both' maps 'read ‘Karl Rove & Co.'" Rove has previously been reported to be “informally advising” McCain’s campaign.
 
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/26/mccains-secret-weapon-maps-by-karl-rove-co/
 
I realize, Johnny, you have issues with both sources, but this has all been rather "wink-wink, nod-nod," as I imagine you might agree.
April 28, 2008, 10:01:22 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Sharm,
 
Notice that Johnny Dollar's Place is a place where anyone grab a stool and shoot the bull about JD's links and solve the world's problems without troll, socketpuppet, and strawman sockpuppet attempts to inflame, trivialize, and hijack the entire site.
 
It's what OW could be without endless rounds of Royal King insults. It's what OW will be.  
 
In some corners, that seemed to have been a very dangerous prospect, indeed.
April 28, 2008, 10:02:30 AM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
I will add that although I find Rove repulsive, an asexual Dick Morris as it were, and regret Rove's and Morris' contempt for our political system and voters, I have no objection to them being commentators. In fact, I find their political perspectives interesting and valuable. Both are routinely disclosed as "former NN advisors". As it should be .... I'm sure you recall the discussions about Carville and Begala and whether they are (Hillary) Clinton advisors. The resolution of that was always murky, and the issue reared its head again with reference to Stephanopolous and the last debate. I don't understand why we just don't provide a blanket disclosure for Rove. Some special portection we're unaware of?
April 28, 2008, 10:13:42 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Hi, Sharm and Cecelia! We three are here along with olbysucks so if Cee found his way to Jumping J
April 28, 2008, 10:17:20 AM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
The Politico article is the one I remember. One phone call to the campaign? Plus Karl Rove's electoral maps? He goes on tv and shows the maps full screen. It's not like they are secret; anyone could grab them. I'm not convinced this amounts to all that much.
 
Still, if disclosure is warranted, it is warranted. I just wish MM, TP, and the rest would start telling the truth about that. I heard Chris Wallace mention that Rove has advised the McCain campaign (as I recall he phrased it in the past tense but I could be wrong) almost two weeks ago. Yet these sites keep claiming that it's never been disclosed.
April 28, 2008, 10:37:50 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
True, Grammie.  
 
When it comes to secret police identification of those among the oppressed masses who are yearning to blaast an opponent in the foulest language possible, no one can bring them out quite like Cee.
April 28, 2008, 10:40:45 AM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
I do agree, Johnny, it is rather a tempest in a teapot. This is just one of those misunderstandings that is so easy to remedy, why not do it?
 
I do seem to recall the Wallace statement as well. In a news or "newsier" context, like Wallace, the disclosure is probably far more important than on a pure opinion segment like you'd get on O'Reilly or Hannity (or Cooper or Olbermann).
April 28, 2008, 10:58:16 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Johnny, when this charge first came up there was much made of the fact that some maps were cleary stamped with "Karl Rove, Inc" or whatever was the name of his company.
 
I checked on it and Rove had sold that company a few years ago.
April 28, 2008, 11:02:58 AM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
I'm pleased some of the OW people enjoyed that site, and I hope it is functioning again, soon. But, please, don't try to turn this site into a insult-exchanging out-of-focus lonely hearts club. There are few blogs that handle this topic, broader than Olbermann, well and offer informed input. Be patient, perhaps OW will return for you soon.
April 28, 2008, 11:03:32 AM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Thanks for the compliment? I think? But let's not go off on a tangent of taking shots at posters from OW. Remember OTM, lots of people of all types posted there, as you of all people should know.
April 28, 2008, 11:14:17 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Oh, I'm hanging out at JD's Place regardless of OW's return and partly because it can't become what your concerted efforts accomplished at OW. This is an upscale place run by a classy man.
April 28, 2008, 11:29:44 AM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
This is a good site, Johnny, and I don't flirt or blow smoke. I have a very high and harsh grading scale. I just want to make sure that everyone is vested in keeping it that way. You, to be sure, but posters, as well. And, since one of the ways to maintain the quality is to keep focused on the topic, this is my last off-topic comment on this matter.
April 28, 2008, 11:41:22 AM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
Good for the Hispanic Congressmen. Dobbs crossed the line separating legitimate immigration concerns from racism long ago, and he has been given a pass. Time to end that!
 
I had to stop watching Dobbs long ago, although I once enjoyed him. The substance of his show became difficult enough, but his anger is just more than I can bear.
April 28, 2008, 11:47:39 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Never let it be said we that we don't appreciate the irony too, OTM.
April 28, 2008, 11:48:01 AM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
I'm no Lou Dobbs fan but I have to wonder what business it is of the government to try to limit the free speech of the press.
April 28, 2008, 11:54:47 AM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
Hello everyone. Back for another quick point. I believe that McCain pandered to Hagee to get some votes. Hagee is not a lifelong friend of McCain nor does McCain attend his church (as far as I know). Obama is now on the verge of dropping a friend/mentor/spiritual adviser to avoid losing votes. Who is more hypocritical, MCCain for getting Hagee on board or Obama for dropping a twenty year freindship?
April 28, 2008, 12:00:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Missy
On the Mark,
 
As I wrote over at Spud's site earlier, "Obama wrote a book and stated that Wright was his “spiritual advisor”, and a huge influence in his life, etc.
 
So now that we’re finding out more about Wright, it is imperative to hear these things since it is HE who is such a big influence on a potential POTUS. He’s real big into this “black liberation theology”. Fine, just let the electorate know that so they can vote for or against Obama based on that, PLUS Obama’s voting record, plus his speeches, actions, other associations, etc.  
 
If Wright was Obama’s dentist, that would be one thing. But when Obama writes a book and states the guy has been a major influence in his life, we need to know exactly where the guy is coming from, because that influence could actually affect public policy should Obama win in Nov."
 
And as has been pointed out constantly, both Hillary and McCain have been in the national spotlight for years. We know a lot about each of them. This is not the case with Obama, however.  
 
Now on to John Hagee. OTM, let's hear more about the "broader hate speech" that you attribute to him. Hagee is just this year celebrating his 50 years of preaching the gospel. His father was a preacher, as was his grandfather, too, I believe. The family has been indoctrinated in the Word of God for YEARS, and is probably the most politically incorrect of any out there. Sorry. He preaches against homosexuality and fornication, because that's what the Bible teaches. He is VERY pro-Israel, and has even slammed the Bush administration and Dr. Condoleezza Rice for their attempts to divide the nation of Israel.  
 
Hagee is very well grounded in the Bible, and political correctness and hurting any group's feelings is about the last thing this guy cares about. He is definitely a "fire and brimstone" preacher, probably the most avid our country has. But he preaches the Word of God, and if anyone else has a problem with that, take it up with God.
 
Falwell was the same way. He preached exactly what the Bible taught, and was excoriated by the public and the media constantly.  
 
If I'm a Christian, I don't want to attend a sermon by some cowardly, compromising preacher who is willing to make provision for my sin. I want to hear what God has to say, and if it hurts my feelings, too bad. It's me, not God, who is wrong. I'm the one who needs to change, not Him.
April 28, 2008, 12:11:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Merely addressing the scenario you present, Sharm, I'd have to pick McCain.
 
I don't think it's hypocritical at all to drop a 20 year friendship with someone who makes the sort of claims that Wright has made.
 
I've done it with those neo-Confederate and black helicopter types who love to get into what they think is safe territory and wax paranoid.
 
However, if your point is that Obama has certainly waited until his motive of backed-into-a- corner self-interest belies his very recently made statements... yeah, I see that too.
April 28, 2008, 12:20:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Well, Sharm, Obama does find himself now between a rock and a hard place.
 
I personally believe that Obama latched onto Wright 20 years ago to help launch his political career and milked it in Chicago b/c it offered the newcomer an entre into the power base in Chicago and aided him in maintaining that power. Having moved on to national politics I don't think Obama thought the implications of that exposure through to how it would be perceived on a national scale. Based on his first answers to Wright's national exposure Obama was obviously totally unprepared to explain and then gracefully move past Wright's rants.
 
J$ has at least one link that sheds light on the possibility that Wright's self interest in the continuance of the racial devide far outweighs the coup de grace to those perks and ambitions that an Obama victory would make Wright's rants superfluous.
 
http://thecablegame.blogspot.com/2008/04/cable-gamers-prediction
 
titled "Jim Pinkerton plugs The Cable Game" on the wekend thread.
April 28, 2008, 12:32:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Missy, I am quite offended by Hagee's Catholic bashing stance. However, I recently heard one professed Catholic commenter on OW say that he would have difficulty voting on any Mormon candidate (Romney looked like the Republican front-runner at the time...surprise...surprise...) because his church taught him that this Christian sect is a cult.
 
I'm fairly sure that Mormons believe that Presbyterians (I am one) have it dead wrong too... I think there has to be some perspective taken when it comes to the slings and arrows taken between religions and religious sects. "Your myth is as good as my myth" may be a politically correct stance, but it's not one anyone should expect from sincere believers.
 
However, equating what is doubtlessly a Christian denomination with imagery from the book of Revelation, is something ANY thoughtful person, let alone believer or politician, should back away from. That stance bars the door completely against any mediating idea that we all "see through a glass darkly".
April 28, 2008, 12:34:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Grammie, that was certainly a very savvy and prescient prediction from The Cable Game blogger.
April 28, 2008, 12:39:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Vince
I'm convinced most of you folks attacking Hagee have no clue what he actually said.
 
Can someone provide the verbatum quote of what he said that is so wrong?
 
And btw... the entire history of Protestantism is full of one denomination or another stating that the Papacy is the Antichrist.
 
I was raised Catholic.. to think this "offends" Catholics is absurd... most Catholics are not mired in hypersensitive idenitiy politics where our poor self esteem shatters because other sects think our sect is implicated in the end time scenerio.
April 28, 2008, 12:44:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
Cecelia,
 
I guess I am riding the fence on my own question. I don't believe that Obama holds any of those views, and I don't see anything wrong with dropping a friend who you have come to believe is a divisive figure when you are all about unity. On the other hand, I have a hard time believing that some of the inflammatory comments (believed by a segment of the population) made by Wright were unknown to Obama until they received nationwide attention. McCain has courted the vote of a group of people led by someone who also makes inflammatory comments (believed by a segment of the population). With McCain, there is no question (for me) that he wants to get as many votes as he can. With Obama, you have to look behind his comments to see whether they are sincere or not and I am having trouble believing that he "just never knew."  
 
Onto Rove, if you have ever seen him on Fox, you would note that he advises Clinton all the time.
 
Johnny $- "Sklar has finally discovered Olbypocrisy." Once the light bulb goes on, how transparent KO becomes. I do agree with Cecelia that I am not taht affected by KO's latest. The feminists do get up in arms a little too quickly. I remember when the headlines concerned the idea that women can't do math was taken up by (I think) Wendy Murphy (a frequent guest on O'Reilly and whom I have come to like). When asked a question that concerned a math issue, maybe a percentage question or something, she embarrassingly said that she can't do math.  
 
One more item here. I caught Craig Ferguson at the correspondents' dinner. This somehow slipped the headlines. He stated that he needed the help of the audience to vote, being a newbie, and asked for a show of applause for voting republican and got a fair round of applause. Then he asked for a show of applause for voting democratic (voting democrat- a Chris Matthews HA!). A clear increase in the applause sounded, and he slyly brought up proof of the bias.  
Another HA!
 
P.S. How do you refresh here? I saw a yello bar once but now it does not appear.
April 28, 2008, 1:01:20 PM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
Of course, Johnny, the letter came from the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, an unofficial, extra-Constitutional body, so I am not sure this rises to the level of government action to control the press. Unless I am missing something, I don't believe governmental action was even threatened.  
 
I do think this will all resolve itself at some point. Even Father Coughlin lost his audience, and if Dobbs keeps harping on an issue too long, he will lose his audience, too. Last time I checked, immigration was down the list of issues important to voters, and none of the presidential candidates have taken up the cause. True, if Hillary finds out there is a former brother-in-law of a superdelegate in Terre Haute who is bidding on the middle string of barbed wired on the border fence as it passes through the eastern end of the Hidalgo city limits, she might take up the cry. But, I don't see any evidence that this is the burning issue it once was. I know McCain would like it to disappear, and I suspect the Republican party would like to stem the flow of Hispanics away from the party now, too. In other words, Dobbs' hate-filled spews are on a short timer. The market will determine his fate.
April 28, 2008, 1:10:49 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
Vince,
 
I as a Catholic convert, perceive Hagee as teaching what his father and his father's father taught before him. Part of their mission is to save us hell bound Catholics. The Catholic angle only makes headlines and is a big joke coming from the mouth of our chief hypocrite, KO.
 
[You may be interested in Trial, Tribulation and Triumph by Desmond Burch- Catholic theologan- on end times. One of the most interesting books I have come across].
April 28, 2008, 1:11:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Yes I know it wasn't an official government action. But if I'm the local prosecutor, and I start sending letters to people warning them about doing this or saying that, we have what we call a "chilling effect". Congress has the right to regulate, and as such they have no business trying to chill speech that is otherwise completely legal. Just my opinion.
April 28, 2008, 1:29:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
I was just listening to Bill Press on Fox.
 
He obviously thinks that everytime Wright opens his mouth more crap harmful to Obama flows out. Press was adamant thay Obama is being dragged down by Wright and that Obama needs to cut away from him and denounce him.
 
I'm confused.
 
When did Bill Press become a racist reich wing Christo Nazi?
April 28, 2008, 1:32:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
Thanks for your post, Missy, and thank you as well, Vince. I don't want to dwell on the specific point too long, as I believe it tends to run into theology and not cable news.
 
The most objectionable point I find is included in this short take:
 
https://youtube.com/watch?v=uViQ0hVV57Q
 
Missy: I am not sure why you believe that if you want to hear the Word of God, you necessarily listen to Hagee or any priest, preacher, rabbi or mullah. The liturgical churches tend to make a pretty clear distinction when the Word of God shifts to the Word of Man (the homily or semon) in the order of service.
 
Vince: Point very well made. Hagee's words don't offend me, either. My faith is not shaken by a nut case pointing to a figurine and misinterpreting the Revelation.
 
As to the news coverage issue, it may be true that Obama's relationship with Rev. Wright is different in kind than McCain's with Hagee. But, if there is some value in examining Obama's relationship with Rev. Wright in determining Obama's character and thinking, there is also some value, perhaps less, in determining why McCain actively sought and why Cornyn actively set up Hagee's endorsement. I'm not sure the media, cable news and otherwise, has covered that as it ought to have done.
April 28, 2008, 1:35:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
That reminds of Dingy Harry's back firing foray into using the weight of the U S Government, through one of its most powerful entities, to censor and bring pressure to bear to have another private citizen fired.
 
I am so glad that the Dems are liberal, tolerant, open minded progressives or they might take it to the next step and send capitol police to enforce their demands.
April 28, 2008, 1:36:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
The "chilling effect" is a good argument, Johnny, and I am sure that was the intent of the letter. I tend to be a purist in these matters, and would much rather sanction all speech, however objectionable I find it. As I said, I expect Dobbs is going to sing his swan song surprisingly early.
April 28, 2008, 1:41:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Vince
It needs to be said that Hagee's work in bringing together Christians and Israelis is very significant. It's a shame that his name has been soiled by these Obama folks.
 
Hagee speaks out against religious hatred... he speaks out for Christians to understand the natural skepticism that some Jews view the motives of Chrisitians due to the history of abuses done by RCC and Protestants alike.
 
The media totally ignores all the good work he does , including his founding of the organization Christians United for Israel ..
April 28, 2008, 1:41:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Missy, I enjoyed your comment very much. You really articulated the concern that someone who Obama himself has held up as his inspirational mentor definitely becomes completely pertinent to we the voters. Obama has walked a long path, arm in arm with Wright, and has touted him as an influential and powerful force in his life. That makes him and his beliefs important way beyond that of a just a pastor. That makes a potential power player in the highest level of our country if Obama prevails.
 
I don't know of any equivalent figure vis a vis McCain but if one is exposed I would want them to be as thoroughly vetted as Wright.
April 28, 2008, 1:47:09 PM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
Again, I agree with you Vince, but can't the same thing be said about Rev. Wright? He and his congregation have developed such powerful street and prison ministries, helping hundreds and hundreds of people, and have empowered so many young men and women who would otherwise have been lost. Yet, this is not discussed, either.
 
I would take some exception to the Obama "folks" soiling Hagee's name. Were this not an election year, you would have noticed that Bill Donohue and the Catholic League have actually been Hagee's biggest critics. That has been covered, but only barely. In the interst of personal accountability, I also think Hagee had some role in soiling himself.
April 28, 2008, 1:56:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Johnny, I just noticed that you have 937,000 + hits here.
 
As best I remember from two or three weeks back you were somewhere at 897,000 or so hits.
 
Congratulations on a job well done!
April 28, 2008, 2:06:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Grammie,
 
Is there a Norse or Greek god of temper tandrums? :D
April 28, 2008, 2:17:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Johnny,
 
The link on Wright by Lauren Green is wonderfully expressed!
April 28, 2008, 2:32:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Vince
OTM: Wrights entire social theology is one of racism, lies and purpetual victimization.  
 
That is what Black liberation theology is.
April 28, 2008, 2:50:20 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Kirk G
I guess Kathryn Lopez thinks that if a woman is attractive and dresses up for a dinner can't be a journalist/anchors. or be disimissed as just window dressing, she does give credit to Hannity for going after the Wright story first and didn't give up until the MSM got it.
April 28, 2008, 3:21:40 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
I've been busy buying and then setting up a new HDTV in my basement. Is this another "ideological cage match" (to use my phraseology from Saturday)?
April 28, 2008, 3:23:40 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Well if it is you can help steer it back on course!
April 28, 2008, 3:29:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
So, Craig bashed FNC Saturday night? Then, you know what? I *will* erase my recording after all. I never would have guessed Craig Ferguson is another person most likely to be Great Thanksed by you-know-who.
I agree with Kathryn Jean Lopez at NRO; stop hitting below the belt with FNC, FBN, FNR (Fox News Radio), and anything else related to Fox, News Corporation, or Rupert Murdoch. Enough is enough!
Five hours later...
"Mike 'Fox Noise cheerleader' Chimeri [botched pronunication], today's Worst...Person...in the World!!!"
April 28, 2008, 3:32:11 PM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
No, Vince, I understand liberation theology well, very well, indeed. And you have not correctly summarized it. Liberation theology is about recognizing captivity, suppression and inequality and casting it off, casting it aside for the purpose of empowerment, and the basis for it is always the social Gospel, but the Gospel of God Incarnate reaching out to those others would not touch. Disagree with it if you will, and I find holes and flaws in it, but it is not as you summarized. Rev. Wright, however, seems to preach a somewhat distorted liberation theology at times.
 
The Lauren Green article, to which Johnny linked above, gets a bit mushy-headed in the middle, but it is a strong start and a stronger finish. Benedict's visit did remind us all, and Green, by referencing Benedict, reminds us once again that the highest of Church traditions, the (Western) orthodoxy of Hagee's despised Roman Catholicism, Anglo-Catholicism, Lutheranism and even modern Prebyteriansim emphasize to us that our liberation comes from a God who created, redeems and sanctifies us, and not through a God that condemns us or emphasizes our differences. That is why, I suppose, I find a Rev. Wright out of touch and out of tune, but a Hagee an apostate. Others might draw the line elsewhere, but we should pray for both and for guidance to know one from the other.
 
I would like to add that Ms. Green is doing a marvelous job reporting on a difficult topic in modern America. I am actually encouraged by what I have seen as a new-found respect for the role of faith in America on the cable news networks, especially CNN and, to a somewhat lesser extent, FNC. I congratulate both.
April 28, 2008, 3:34:20 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Mike, to tell you the truth I am not sure but I only have a limited vague idea of what you mean by the term "ideological cage match".
 
I would not think that this comment section rises anywhere near to that level but I don't know for sure.
 
Why don't you glance through it and let us know.
 
I just got one of those mind boggling new TVs and it is great. It ought to be. It cost more than my first new car, a VW bug with a six volt battery.
April 28, 2008, 3:36:07 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
>Well if it is you can help steer it back on course!<
Nope. I'm powerless. Once the back-and-forth starts, it can't stop. "Fox stinks." "Oh, yeah? Look at this link and this link and this link. That proves Fox is balanced." Dueling rebuttals follow.
April 28, 2008, 3:36:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
Grammie, here was my definition on Saturday at 10:57 AM ET:
"It's just as well [that I will be away from the computer while in Connecticut for the weekend] because it's just going to be an ideological cage match in here anyway; back and forth, back and forth. And since it's ideological, very little of the comments will have to do with cable news. So, have fun, and Johnny, I'm sorry you have to put up with all this."
April 28, 2008, 3:38:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Well, Mike, to a degree it was. Not so much back and forth but the distaff side here did discuss policy more than normal.
 
Let your hair down  and scan today. You just may find you like it.
April 28, 2008, 3:48:53 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Mike, it's hard to comment on Johnny's links without addressing the other content too. I'd be glad to follow your lead in this.
 
A great many of us are new here and don't know how things operated in the past. If there's some way I'm breaching the "cable news" parameter, please stick around and be patient until I get the lay of the land.
April 28, 2008, 3:57:25 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
BTW, Mike, as to Craig Ferguson, anyone Scottish can't be all bad...
April 28, 2008, 4:02:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
As I've said, I understand that discussing the links and cable news can lead to getting into substantive issues at times. As long as we keep that kind of a side road and keep the main focus on cable news then I'll be happy, and I hope Mike will too.
 
We can all be careful not to start posting comments that are sheerly intended for political argument, rather than concerning cable news. I know things stray but if they don't go too far that's to be expected. I don't want to be too censorious in monitoring things because I believe we have a pretty sharp bunch here who can keep things fairly well focused on cable news, or at least find a way to bring cable news into it! _
April 28, 2008, 4:07:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
No, I won't stop you. It's Johnny's site, not mine. I'm just saying too much off-topic stuff keeps me away.
April 28, 2008, 4:16:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Johnny, let me know if I stray in any way. Don't give it a thought that if you do I will probably cry buckets, moan, groan and pout for days! 
 
You have a great site with great links and I am so glad I found that out b/c I was casting around for a home after OW encountered its problems changing to a new system to control the Trolls.
 
That just proves it is an ill wind that blows no good!
April 28, 2008, 4:16:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
My last comment was intended for Cecilia. I didn't see what Johnny said until I published.
April 28, 2008, 4:17:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Mike, that's the last thing I want. You're too smart a guy to lose. Again, I'm learning the land, and I'll do my best to do that quickly.
April 28, 2008, 4:37:50 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Mike, I am the new comer here tentatively trying to find my way in a new world.
 
You strike me as a very nice guy who is very knowlegable about Cable News and with much to offer.
 
You lead and I will follow.
April 28, 2008, 4:46:19 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
I'm not going anywhere. Don't worry.
April 28, 2008, 4:47:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
Thank you for the compliments, Cecelia and Grammie.
April 28, 2008, 4:49:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Mike, we're impressed by you in general, but we also have ulterior motives. We're hoping we can talk you into doing some recaps of Countdown on OW some day.
April 28, 2008, 5:25:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply


olbysucks
Mike, it's just a news blog. Lighten up.
April 28, 2008, 5:42:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
I myself am looking forward to seeing Mike C. awarded The Worst Person in the World! But don't get discouraged if you start with the bronze. For the most part, I enjoyed Colin Ferguson, but he didn't get the one sided feud between B & K. Maybe the Fox News dig was payment for the gig.
April 28, 2008, 5:49:19 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
I forgot my smiley face after WPITW! 
April 28, 2008, 5:50:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
AHH! Faux pas! Not Colin Ferguson! Craig. Colin would have been quite an interesting choice...
April 28, 2008, 5:56:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
I was kidding more than anything else.
April 28, 2008, 5:59:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
I think the "After the Show Show" for "Fox and Friends" has been canceled. There was no promotion for it at the end of the show and no video up at FOXNews.com. Hopefully, I'm wrong, but I think this coincides with the updated FNC graphics and music.
April 28, 2008, 6:04:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Well Alysin mentions the AtSS on her blog today in passing but no mention of why there wasn't one. Maybe it's just a one day thing. That's happened before.
April 28, 2008, 6:13:24 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Johnny, thanks for introducing me to the Cable Gamer.
 
She/he has some fairly unique and very interesting commentaries.
 
I say she/he b/c I thought I read something where she/he used the feminine form in referring to The Cable Gamer.
 
I don't think that this PC garbage has served us well.
April 28, 2008, 6:33:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
The Cable Gamer is definitely a she. And a very perspicacious one.
April 28, 2008, 6:35:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
A real Katy Tur fan she is too. :D
April 28, 2008, 6:53:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Oh, I'm so sorry FOX fired laurie Dhue. 
 
She's not as smart as Megyn Kelly or James Rosen, but she has such a strong and good natured presence that she was really one of their most likable personalities.
April 28, 2008, 7:19:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Well I'm not sure fired is the right word. She wanted more than they were willing to pay so they didn't re-up her contract. Well, maybe yeah, that is firing of a sort.
April 28, 2008, 7:20:24 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Too bad!
April 28, 2008, 7:32:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
FNC went dark for ten seconds during "The Factor" just now. And the blue blogs will rejoice giving Olby WPITW material.
April 28, 2008, 8:05:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
I just thought of this gem: There's a Goldberg on Monday night this week (on "The Factor") and he doesn't wrestle.
April 28, 2008, 8:14:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Mike,
 
How about this one: There's a Goldberg on Monday night this week whose name isn't followed by "and the whale".
April 28, 2008, 8:42:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
What show was Jonah on?
I was talking about Bernie.
April 28, 2008, 9:09:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
Never mind. He was somewhere. I see Bernie on TV more often than Jonah. And I was referring to the fact that Bernie shares his last name with wrestler [Bill] Goldberg. Thankfully, with all due respect, Bernie's head isn't shaved.
April 29, 2008, 12:53:12 AM EDT – Like – Reply