1/6/09 1:05 PM

'It Looked Like an Old Heavyweight Title Fight'

J$P Video! Frank Luntz's focus group picks tonight's debate winner:


From Fox News Channel, October 15 2008




Interloper
Once again showing Frank Luntz to be the most entertaining and insightful moment in post-debate coverage. Big fan here.
October 15, 2008, 11:32:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Big Time
The republicans sure did have their asses handed to them again. Wow. I don't understand how the Fox text poll resulted in about 90% saying that McCain won. Sure didn't seem that way. Time will tell I guess.
October 16, 2008, 4:25:30 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Kirk G
I put NO stock in these groups, how in the heck can anyone tell if they are independents. Just becase they say so.
October 16, 2008, 11:43:52 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Those audience response graphs are incredibly annoying. They have a Madison Avenue marketing aspect that it hideously trivializing.
 
What's next? Audience reaction graphs brought to you by Pepsi or Stove Top Stuffing?
October 16, 2008, 11:55:47 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike C.
I think they're informative and interesting.
October 16, 2008, 2:48:43 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
I think they're informative and interesting.
Mike C. | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 2:53 pm  
 
Well, many people must feel the same way, Mike, because they are popular.
 
Maybe I'm just being too much of an old stick in the mud. I'll rethink them.
October 16, 2008, 3:38:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


GrandpaD
It's just to small a sample to have any real meaning. But obviously it's popular. Every net is coming out with it's own newer, flashier version.
October 16, 2008, 4:03:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
I think that the candidates should be hooked up to voice stress analyzers and polygraph machines instead during their debates.
 
Keith "Chezchoslovakia" Olbermann too, during his "newscasts".
October 16, 2008, 4:09:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
No offense Mike, but I'm with CC and D-Man on this one. The graphs are meaningless, leading, and given too much credence. Bad "news".
October 16, 2008, 8:58:49 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Interloper
I would think that there is some amount of screening done to verify that these people really are as undecided, for whatever reason, as they claim to be. They are what they claim to be, this is what this group of undecided voters are thinking about this debate. Although usually not done on camera, this is similar to what candidates and companies rely on for opinion insight all of the time.
 
One flaw in the system I will concede is this: how can you still be undecided after all of this? Can't these people make a decision? Then again, maybe Joe Who Is Not Really A Licensed Plumber and Owes Back Taxes Already is undecided.
October 16, 2008, 9:47:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
Gee, Interloper, I watched the encounter and never heard the gentleman claim he is a licensed plumber. Maybe I missed it. The word is that he is working under the license of his employer and is soon to become a journeyman. If you watched it on youtube, you may have noticed that "Joe" listened intently to Obama's repsonse and wondered if Obama would be supportive of a flat tax, a good indicator of someone who really doesn't follow the issue. This is quite unlike the gentlemen from Luntz's focus group who said on the one hand, he had no idea what McCain's health plan was about. He couldn't articulate Obama's plan but he did know he was going to get something out of it.  
 
Since you know so much about "Joe's" personal life, maybe you can research the percentage of his income that went to charity versus that of Obama. Oh, dangit, "Joe" isn't running for office so he probably won't be submitting his tax return for your approval.
October 16, 2008, 11:49:35 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Interloper
Sorry Sharm, but the Poster Child on FNC these days works for a firm that is not licensed, either. I don't know why he's so worried about potential taxes, since he doesn't pay them all, anyway.
 
As for him asking about a flat tax, I'd bet Johnny Dollar's Donuts to other dollars that he already knew where Obama stood. That's why the follow-up was about a flat tax, which Joe Six-Pack is not even talking about right now.
 
I don't care about Joe's personal life, or even if his name is really Joe. But his public persona has been contrived and manipulated and it does not reflect well on our media.
October 17, 2008, 10:57:26 AM EDT – Like – Reply


danny
Interloper
 
Joe the plumber has no public persona. He is not running for anything. He is just someone in a line who asked Obama a tough question.
 
All that you have said about Joe is irrelevant to his question. They are ad homimen arguments to deflect the issues he raised. If the press did not persue irrelevancies, they should be praised and not condemned
 
Let's compare Obama and Joe on the tax issue. Joe is not by design a public figure. Joe has never said that he pays too much in taxes; indeed he has indicated the opposite. He has no legal difficulties with the IRS. If he has skimped on paying taxes, there is no hypocrisy. Hence, there is nothing for the media to investigate.
 
Obama (who intends to be a public figure) said clearly in the debate that he feels that he is not being taxed enough. His campaign has even linked paying taxes to patriotism.
 
Is Obama paying more taxes than he should? Is Obama (by his own definition) unpatriotic? Is the media investigating this? I don't think so.
 
The fact that Obama's public persona has been contrived and manipulated does not reflect well on our media.
October 17, 2008, 1:06:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
Way to dodge the points, Interloper (are you kin to Mark?). The story is that Obama stated it is good to spread the wealth around. This has nothing to do with Joe. You either buy into that concept or you don't. Many people don't.
 
"I don't care about Joe's personal life..."
 
Yet you couldn't resist reporting on him in your comment and even imply that Joe is shady becuase after all, Joe may not even be his real name (I think he uses his middle name, a pretty common practice).
 
The media has set out to destroy a man who didn't go to a public event to heckle, but was on his own turf and spoke with a candidate about taxes. Shameful, unpatriotic and base of those who feel free to discredit a man who had a chance encounter with Obama that resulted in a comment that has opened some eyes.
 
"As for him asking about a flat tax, I'd bet Johnny Dollar's Donuts to other dollars that he already knew where Obama stood."
 
I'll make the same bet that most of Obama's supporters couldn't explain his view on the flat tax. I'll harken back to the "undecided" Floridian who doesn't have a clue what Obama's health plan but he knows he gets something.  
 
"And guess what this liberal will be all about? This liberal will be all about socializing.... uh, umm... will be about... basically... taking over... and the government running all of your companies."
 
(Maxine Waters)
October 17, 2008, 1:41:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Let's be careful to keep comments not too political and with some relation to cable news.
October 17, 2008, 1:57:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Interloper
Sharm, I am sorry if my explanation did not go far enough in some areas. Let me try to expand.
 
1. Joe is the one who brought up the flat tax. Not only do I agree with you that most people would not know Obama's position on the flat tax, I would go furthr and say people don't think about a flat tax except for a dedicated small group who believe it would be best. Now, I may even agree with that, but the point is Joe asked about an issue nobody is talking about and Joe Six-Pack doesn't care about.
 
2. I agree he may have started off not the sotry, but he's the one going on all of these tv news shows to give his opinion. He interjected himself into the public debate, and that's different than if he had just asked Obama and then stayed off of tv. I'll bet he's been on tv somewhere giving his opinion on Obama today.
 
3. "The media has set out to destroy a man who didn't go to a public event to heckle, but was on his own turf and spoke with a candidate about taxes. Shameful, unpatriotic and base of those who feel free to discredit a man who had a chance encounter with Obama that resulted in a comment that has opened some eyes."
 
The chance encounter was followed up by another 30 or 40 chance encounters in front of a t.v. camera. See above.
 
My overall point is that the media should move on from Joe the Media Plumber. Either that or put "McCain spokesperson" under his name. And please don't come back with we don't know who he's voting for. Be honest and admit that we all knew from the moment he asked his question.
 
Oh, and I am not in any way a relative of Johnny Dollar. I have a feeling that, if I was, I would have been disinherited already.
October 17, 2008, 2:46:07 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
May respond, Johnny? I won't let this drag on. If people can't see how the media has set out to destroy someone who did nothing to deserve it, then there is no reason to belabor the point.
 
"Joe is the one who brought up the flat tax."
 
Yes, I said that. He said that based upon Obama's explanation of his tax plan.
 
"...he's the one going on all of these tv news shows to give his opinion."
 
SO that means he should be scrutinzed more than Obama has been? Obama says to spread the wealth around so Joe has to be scrutinized. You are missing a big disconnect.
 
"And please don't come back with we don't know who he's voting for. Be honest and admit that we all knew from the moment he asked his question."
 
Actually, I heard "Joe" say (in an interview with I think Cavuto) that he was interested in the flat tax because he was a Huckabee supporter. Did Huckabee supporters transfer support over to McCain in droves? I don't know. If you believe the media reports, Joe is a pretty new voter. Maybe he doesn't want to vote for anyone.  
 
What if Joe had refused all interviews? Are you blind to the tenaciousness of the press who camp out until they get a response? MAybe it is easier to just give the interviews.  
 
Thanks in advance, Johnny.
October 17, 2008, 8:27:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Interloper
Sharm, I agree that we have both said a lot about this and people should have enough to think about from this discussion by now. At the risk of being accused of giving up, I will agree not to respond further. I think we can both agree that frequently the media will create or inflate a controversy or a symbol far beyond reason.
October 17, 2008, 10:03:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply