1/6/09 12:37 PM

Thursday Links & Open Thread

Latest cable news links [updated through the day]:

Larry Elder gets a tryout.

Wednesday's numbers.

Steve Harrigan blogs from Colombia.

America's Election HQ returns Monday.

Outrage! Karl Rove uses notes!

Friendly competitors.

Doddering demos?

Cablevision adding FNC-HD.

Q&A: Chris Wallace.

Shock: more photoshops! Outrage ensues absent (cf ICN, Chickaboomer).

Video: most "insane story ever"?

Cable's veepstakes guessing game.

Monica's lighting escapade.

Alan's hate mail [language].

J$P poll results.

Use our valuable bandwidth to post your comments on any and all cable news topics in today's open thread. Standard rules apply.




rush
Hey gang check out my nyt article this sunday where I talk up Bill and Sean!
July 3, 2008, 7:10:45 AM EDT – Like – Reply


cee
How rush, what a tease...close to being on topic, but missing it by "that much!"
 
The "Ted Baxter" comment's gotta hurt though.....
July 3, 2008, 8:59:02 AM EDT – Like – Reply


notveryhow
Interesting interview with Chris Wallace.Never pictured him as part of the Martha's Vinyard "don't want no stinkin' wind turbine messing up my ocean view" elite.
 
It is refreshing to hear his honesty,contrasting what he does at Fox as opposed to the "mainstream media".
 
"And whether you like Fox News or don't like it, it seems to me that it is a healthy development if only because it creates another view point and some competition for the mainstream media and another place where people can get information, and by comparison check out whether they are getting the full story."
 
In principal I agree with Mr Wallace,that the more information people have the better.The danger is that some may not recognize that they are recieving "another view point", mistake it for the unvarnished truth,and not bother to "check out whether they are getting the full story".
July 3, 2008, 9:50:33 AM EDT – Like – Reply


olby sucks
"don't want no stinkin' wind turbine messing up my ocean view" elite.
 
No, that's your man ted kennedy who was against the turbines. Nice try, though.
July 3, 2008, 10:01:52 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
nvh, if you follow Wallace's thesis, that very danger has long been borne out in the case of the mainstream media.
July 3, 2008, 11:26:37 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
OS,
 
The particularly interesting thing about nvh's characterization (and inclusion) of Walace within an elite Vineyard set and its' views on wind turbines there, is that nothing about the subject or his opinion on it, is even hinted at by Wallace within the article.
 
However, Wallace does explicitly state that he has ....livened up.... many a dinner party there (to the point of causing outrage) simply by conveying information that would contradict generally held views.
 
Why would nvh remark on an elitism never mentioned or illustrated within in the article, while ignoring the explicitly expressed and specifically exampled one that was?
July 3, 2008, 11:44:06 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
I agree Cecelia, I read the entire article after seeing nvh's comment, and the article's content is counter to everything nvh wrote.
 
nvh's bigger point, that Fox is "another point of view" relative to the MSM is arguably correct. FNC gives both sides of divided debates, as opposed to the "Martha's Vineyard" side that the rest of the MSM disseminates.
July 3, 2008, 12:08:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply


danny
NVH has particpated at NH and has defended NH in this forum. I wonder if he/she is concerned about people's thinking that they are receiving the unvarnished truth on that blog. [That concern was actually hinted at in the article].
 
In blogs like NH, truth is so deliberately twisted and distorted that the altered news could be referred to FUBAR (see Saving Private Ryan).
 
That people might consider the news disseminated in articles at NH(and sites like it) to be unvarnished truth would be infinitely more damaging to political discourse than the concern NVH mentioned.
July 3, 2008, 1:46:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply


olby sucks
Why would nvh remark on an elitism never mentioned or illustrated within in the article, while ignoring the explicitly expressed and specifically exampled one that was?
Cecelia | 07.03.08 - 11:49 am | #  
 
Diversion.
July 3, 2008, 2:34:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply


notveryhow
Why would nvh remark on an elitism never mentioned or illustrated within in the article
 
Because it was a JOKE, and a JOKE at the expense of the Kennedy/Kerry Massachussets Liberal establishment to boot.
July 3, 2008, 3:27:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Missy
Glad to see E.D. back on FNC. She will be great in "Election HQ". But I STILL want FNC to give John Gibson back his old program, WITHOUT THE TABLOID CRAP!!!!
July 3, 2008, 4:10:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply


danny
I still think that "the demo" is an artifact from a bygone age. Back in the days when there were three networks and a show like Three's Company could command greater than 50% of the audience, the networks were essentially going after the same audience. Therefore, if a network could reach the young adult to middle age demo, they had an edge.
 
Today, especially on cable, the tv audience is much more fragmented. There are channels for those who like comedy; for those who like pop music; for those who like western music; for those who like soap operas; for those who like comedy; for those who like cartoons etc. etc.
 
Neither radio or TV talk/news shows are ever going to have a high young demographic. You would think that if reaching that demographic were the advertisers' primary concern, they would pick another vehicle. Maybe a comedy show . . . younger people like comedy shows.
 
It would seem to me that "the demo" is virtually meaningless for TV news/talk shows, since advertisers that are targeting a younger audience would not be purchasing time on that program format anyway.
 
And yeah, as the article points out, older people do have money and they do buy stuff. The 50s 60s and 70s age brackets are not demographics that all advertisers will want to ignore. That's good news for cable news.
July 3, 2008, 4:35:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


danny
My last post was in reference to the article entitle Doddering Demos. Sorry I did not make that clear.
July 3, 2008, 4:37:58 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
nvh, it's very difficult to identify sarcasm or jokes in comments. That said, I now find your joke to be funny.  The rest of your comment was a gross mischaracterisation of Wallace's statement and of FNC.
 
"The demo", danny, as in 25-54, is important to some shows like Law & Order, 24, etc. You are quite right that it isn't as applicable to news. The prime demographic for news consumption is much older.
July 3, 2008, 5:01:50 PM EDT – Like – Reply


notveryhow
Mr Wallace went out of his way to contrast Fox as different from the MSM.How did I mischaracterize that?
 
"...so-called main stream media, was only telling part of the story and that there was a large share of the potential audience that was dissatisfied with the news that it was getting and did not feel it was getting the full story."  
 
This is exactly what I have been saying for years.Mr Murdoch recognized an underserved demographic,and chose Mr Ailes to crerate a network that would appeal to them.I don't even understand why anyone would think this is a partisan statement.
July 3, 2008, 5:17:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply


olby sucks
nvh, given the mass outrage at newshounds over f&f photoshopping the nyt writers, are you as equally outraged over Olbermann doing much worse to O'Reilly's pic?
July 3, 2008, 5:41:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply


notveryhow
oblio | Homepage | 07.03.08 - 5:46 pm |
 
Well,if I felt outrage over F&F's photoshopping,then maybe I would.Can't say I've given much thought to the photoshopping scandal other than to think it was silly and low-brow, and not fitting for a serious news report.
 
If KO is photoshopping to make BOR appear uglier or something, then I'd probably think the same thing.
July 3, 2008, 5:48:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply


olby sucks
Are you sayin you've never noticed Olbermann doing it in the past? He's only been doing it every night for 3 or 4 yrs......
July 3, 2008, 5:52:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply


olby sucks
How soon I forget, you "rarely" watch Olbermann.
July 3, 2008, 5:53:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply


danny
NVH,
 
Matthews did say that mainstream networks do not give the full story. Check. He did say that blogs do not give the full story. Check. He never said that Fox distorts the truth.
 
Yet, contrary to spirit of the Matthew's words, you are concerned about people's not receiving the unvarnished truth from Fox. But you express no concern that people are not receiving unvarnished truth from the mainstream media or from blogs (NH would be a great example).
 
I think you are a bit selective and even unfair in your professed concern.
July 3, 2008, 5:54:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
Here is what you said at 9:55, nvh.
>The danger is that some may not recognize that they are receiving "another view point", mistake it for the unvarnished truth,and not bother to "check out whether they are getting the full story".
 
So, Fox doesn't give the "unvarnished truth" and its viewers don't get "the full story". This isn't what Wallace meant when he says that Fox gives another viewpoint. He meant that Fox gives both sides of the story, compared to the rest of the MSM.  
 
He also said that by watching Fox, people could "check out whether they are getting the full story" by comparing its coverage to other channels. This is the opposite of what you are saying.
July 3, 2008, 6:17:03 PM EDT – Like – Reply


danny
In my previous post Matthews = Wallace
July 3, 2008, 6:36:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply


danny
FF,
 
You said it better than I did.
July 3, 2008, 6:38:25 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
It's great news that FNC is giving Larry Elder a shot. I encourage everyone to watch or record Elder's "Showdown". Elder is great, he's on afternoon radio in LA, I believe he's also on both XM and Sirius. I've been a fan for ten years.
July 3, 2008, 6:39:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
For NVH - you implied that Wallace is not honest when he appears on Fox News.
 
You have any specific examples to back that up?
July 3, 2008, 6:40:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Eric
I'm curious johnny, since you've never given a direct answer to this question and constantly dodge it, do you consider Charles Krauthammer, Fred Barnes and Mort Kondracke, moderated by Brit Hume, to be a fair and balanced political panel?
 
Seeing how two of them identify as conservative Republicans and the other does not idenfity as either a liberal or a Democrat? And Hume is a self-described conservative?
 
Straight answer. Yes or no.
July 3, 2008, 6:46:11 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
It's nice to see that Fox haters now take Wallace's word as gold when they can spin it to imply that Fox is self-admittedly "the other side" against the grain of the liberal Obama-teat suckling media. This after he was the anti-Christ as a result of Clinton's mental breakdown during his interview with Wallace.
July 3, 2008, 6:47:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Eric
"It's great news that FNC is giving Larry Elder a shot."
 
Fox adds another partisan Republican? Shocking revelation. In other news, scientists confirm: water is wet.
July 3, 2008, 6:47:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
[message deleted for rules violation: personal attacks]

Edited By Siteowner
July 3, 2008, 6:48:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Eric
[message deleted for rules violation: personal attacks]

Edited By Siteowner
July 3, 2008, 6:50:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Eric
[message deleted for rules violation: personal attacks]

Edited By Siteowner
July 3, 2008, 6:51:24 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Missy
Excellent news re: Larry Elder. I love this guy!!!
 
BTW, someone above stated that Elder was Republican. No, he claims to be a libertarian.
July 3, 2008, 6:55:43 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
Off topic, personal attack, profanity.
July 3, 2008, 6:55:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
My above directed at Eric's 6:56. Thanks johnny!
July 3, 2008, 6:57:50 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Eric
"No, he claims to be a libertarian."
 
LOL. Yeah, I heard Fox claims to be "middle of the road". Guess we should all believe that one too. Rofl.
July 3, 2008, 6:58:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
"Off topic, personal attack, profanity.
Fox Fan | 07.03.08 - 7:00 pm | # "
 
My sentiments exactly, FF.
July 3, 2008, 7:00:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
I never got to thank you for setting me straight on sharm last night, Grammie. Good eye, and thanks for calling me out!
July 3, 2008, 7:01:09 PM EDT – Like – Reply


danny
Eric,
 
What evidence do you have that Elder is not a Libertarian? What exactly do you think a libertarian is? Have you ever read any of Ayn Rand's books? Did you know that she and her followers are considered primary examples of Libertarians?
 
If it turns out that it is not that far fetched to believe that Elder is a Libertarian, would you then concede that it is not that far fetched to believe that Fox is middle of the road as well? I mean since you bundled the two propositions together.
July 3, 2008, 7:11:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
Good one, Danny.
July 3, 2008, 7:15:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
FF,
 
no harm, no foul here. Just keep the hat handy, just in case... it seems some here may need a hand off.
July 3, 2008, 7:17:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Missy
Just for you, Eric:  
 
http://www.larryelder.com/bio.html
July 3, 2008, 7:20:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Missy
So who is the "WPITW" character the J$ has posted today? Sorry; I can't make out who it's supposed to be, unless it's Keith himself.
July 3, 2008, 7:21:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Because it was a JOKE, and a JOKE at the expense of the Kennedy/Kerry Massachussets Liberal establishment to boot.
notveryhow | 07.03.08 - 3:32 pm | #  
 
That might have been clearer, nvy, if your remark has linked any of THEM to that sort of elitism, rather than WALLACE...
July 3, 2008, 7:25:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
No, it's a photoshopped image of Bill O'Reilly, done up with lipstick, wig, etc. It was supposed to represent some woman in the Fox PR department.
 
Really classy, huh? Not only a demeaning photoshop job but also one that implies this woman is really some sort of transvestite.
July 3, 2008, 7:31:20 PM EDT – Like – Reply


olby sucks
Fox adds another partisan Republican? Shocking revelation. In other news, scientists confirm: water is wet.
Eric | 07.03.08 - 6:52 pm | #  
 
No proof? Shocking revelation.....
July 3, 2008, 8:04:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
Excellent news re: Larry Elder. I love this guy!!!
 
BTW, someone above stated that Elder was Republican. No, he claims to be a libertarian.
Missy | 07.03.08 - 7:00 pm | #  
 
He's now registered Republican, as of a couple of years ago. Did so strictly because of the libertarian view on the war. But mostly, his views are libertarian.
July 3, 2008, 8:09:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply


olby sucks
I see the newshounds are on their hands and knees begging for money, still......
July 3, 2008, 8:13:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
So now Eric claims that Fox bills (or has billed) itself as "Middle of the Road". Does he have any proof of this? Does he know what he's talking about? Is he so filled with hate that he will make up quotes? Will he ever get me my french fries?
July 3, 2008, 8:15:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Ashley
I see the newshounds are on their hands and knees begging for money, still......
olby sucks | Homepage | 07.03.08 - 8:18 pm | #  
 
I will have to punish myself and go over there to check it out.
 
I notice that J$ has less frequent debunking posts about the bassetts. Could it be they are lying less frequently these days becayse of the skillful analysis of Johnny Dollar? I think so.
July 3, 2008, 8:26:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
It's more like I've been very busy for the past few weeks on other things. They are doing more posts that are 'pointers': not original on their end, just pointing out something someone else posted on another site. They're using more videos so that's less opportunity to lie outright, although more opportunity to mischaracterize etc. I'll get back on the beat after things have settled down a bit on my end.
July 3, 2008, 8:45:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply


tony
Its almost worth it to donate to the news hounds site to keep them going. They are great for comic relief. Maybe they could get Keith Olberman to donate the money that he saved by not paying his taxes.
July 3, 2008, 8:55:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Wenchie
J$...Seems as if Bill Hemmer did an interview with Entertainment Tonight....I cant find a clip though...
July 3, 2008, 9:15:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply


steve
I'm so excited that Elder's being given a shot on Fox, I used to listen to his show on XM everyday until they took the ABC News and Talk station off the air. And he does actually call himself a Republican now because of the war as Ashley said, but he's far from a party line shill.
July 3, 2008, 9:39:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
I'm watching BOR on the DVR. The Kasich and Marc Lamont Hill alternate Star Spangled Banner conversation got heated! Finally, John shows some passion.
July 3, 2008, 10:32:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


GrandpaD
I've never cared for Kasich, but watched some this week. And I actually liked some segments. He does a good job when he's not trying to impersonate O'Reilly. Not as confrontative and actually letting guests finish a sentence. Sort of a "kinder, gentler" Factor. 
 
He did get heated with Marc Lamont Hill but Hill deserved it.
July 3, 2008, 10:59:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
Allow me to put on the dunce cap. Can anyone explain to me what the Neilsen numbers mean? The TV BTN numbers are in millions of viewers and I can understand that, but I looked at Neilsen's FAQ and their Wikipedia entry and still don't get what 2177 for BOR on Wednesday means.
July 3, 2008, 11:09:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply


danny
Johnny's source post BOR's Wednesday numbers like this: 
 
The O’Reilly Factor- 2,177,000 viewers (327,000)
 
That seems easy to read.
July 3, 2008, 11:18:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
Ah. Hundreds of thousands. Thanks!
July 3, 2008, 11:28:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Missy
Grandpa, that Lamont character is something else, isn't he? 
 
Michael Eric Dyson is the same way. They talk so fast, often just saying words without putting forth any logic, hoping to leave the listener just stunned. and trying to interpret their statements.
 
I'll catch the Factor later, but it's good to hear that Kasich blasted the guy. He's a "fillibusterer" (new word I made up!).
July 3, 2008, 11:49:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply


olby sucks
I'm watching BOR on the DVR. The Kasich and Marc Lamont Hill alternate Star Spangled Banner conversation got heated! Finally, John shows some passion.
Fox Fan | 07.03.08 - 10:37 pm | # 
 
Let me guess, lamont defended her?
July 3, 2008, 11:59:25 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
Lamont did a good job defending her, but he fell flat IMO.
July 4, 2008, 12:01:46 AM EDT – Like – Reply