1/19/10 11:18 AM

'That Is Not True! That Is a Lie!'

J$P Video! Coulter, Estrich, and Pirro debate torture:


From Geraldo at Large, April 25 2009




ObserverDan
Best part : Ann Coulter giving it to Olbermann, Matthews, Maddow. " Putting a caterpillar in a cell is torture if you're an MSNBC host who is afraid of bugs."
April 26, 2009, 8:30:47 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Good video, Johnny.
 
I wish that Susan Estrich appeared more often than she does. She seemed to appear far more often during the Clinton Admin.
 
At any rate, although we have totally conflicting political philosophies she strikes me as a voice of reason on the left. She is definitely a straight shooter in my book.
 
I remember we had this same argument at OW a few years back. Then, as now, many were making the claim that Japanese were executed for water boarding Allied POWs.
 
This time around the argument that many of us made then has been nicely laid out for us by Mark Hemingway @
 
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZWQ4YTBiYjJiOGNiMjQxNGY5ZmUxYTNjOTM1MDk1MDY=.
 
This is a brieg history of the practice by Eric Wainer @
 
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15886834
 
I googled ""Japanese war criminal waterboarding" and got 83,000 links for anyone interested in seeing all that is out there.
 
One thing I couldn't find was the specific definition of what the CIA used.
 
There seems to be quite a few methods. Some sound much harsher and potentially more dangerous than others.
 
Anyone have any links?
April 26, 2009, 9:54:16 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Amy
They didn't Anne much of a chance to respond, did they? He mostly listened to Susan, a little bit of Pirro, not as much of Anne.  
 
I hate when they talk over each other like that.
April 26, 2009, 9:56:02 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
Ann was the only sane person in the room (and that says something!). Prosecuting people in WWII for chopping off arms and putting maggots in is a wee bit different from prosecuting people for mamby pamby waterboarding. Seriously, did everyone's balls in the world fall off at the same time?  
 
Simple solution: execute all Gitmo prisoners and execute all terrorist suspects instead of taking more prisoners. Problem solved, no more Gitmo, no more torture.
April 26, 2009, 1:02:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply


xax
The "waterboarding" the Japanese did was known as the water cure. In that technique they MADE you SWALLOW large amounts of water without taking a breath.
 
Our waterboarding technique involves putting a rag over someones face and pouring water on them for at most 40sec and your are only allowed to do that for at most six sessions (2mins 40sec) in 24 hours, also medical staff was on hand in case something happens. Why is no one actually addressing what happened in those interrogations and in the past. It's disingenuous to traffic in half truths.
 
As for this 83 times thing. If six sessions constitute at most 2min 40s, that means he was waterboarded for 14 days at 2min 40sec a day. That's about 40 mins of waterboarding total that he was subject to.
 
I'm not saying that it's pleasant, but let's be real about this and put it into context.
April 26, 2009, 2:15:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Thanks, Xax.
 
I heard this in the background the other day so I don't have any sense of who and therefore how accurate it might be.
 
Whoever said that the technique is laid out in strict detail that the "83 times" could very well be a specified amount (I think several ounces) each time it is used.
 
" The "waterboarding" the Japanese did was known as the water cure. In that technique they MADE you SWALLOW large amounts of water without taking a breath."
 
I learned about that a few years ago when this subject first came up. In addition to the force feeding (somestimes with a hose) the Japanese frequently combined it with extreme pressure on the abdomen. They were not too choosy whether their subject was a soldier, a spy or an innocent civilian.
 
Trying to find any info by googling that is from a primary or even secondary document as opposed to the exact same editorialized outrage on hundreds of blue blogs is well nigh impossible.
 
Cable news is almost as useless b/c they all seem to be reporting primarily the reaction to the data rather than the data in any detail.
 
PS - Was that last sentence a good enough save by moi, the dear little grey haired Grammie? 8)
April 26, 2009, 2:52:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Steve
Great post!
 
Would you like a Link Exchange with our new blog COMMON CENTS! Check us out here....
http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com
April 26, 2009, 2:59:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
i'm sure the japanese did more terrible things than just waterboard-and thats the REAL reason they were exectued-and not all were-did some end up in prision for life?
April 26, 2009, 4:37:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


2008
Best part : Ann Coulter giving it to Olbermann, Matthews, Maddow. " Putting a caterpillar in a cell is torture if you're an MSNBC host who is afraid of bugs."
ObserverDan | Homepage | 04.26.09 - 8:35 am | #  
-----------------------
 
Without a doubt that was the best part. Ann is great, straight and to the point, no silly fears about being 'PC' with her. Ann would have that simpleton dolt Olberman in tears if they were to ever debate.
April 26, 2009, 4:43:24 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
"m sure the japanese did more terrible things than just waterboard-and thats the REAL reason they were exectued-and not all were-did some end up in prision for life?
chris | 04.26.09 - 4:42 pm | # "
 
You are absolutely right about that, Chris.
 
Those that were hung all had starved, beaten, mutilated and brutally executed both POWs and civilians. A stress position as they practiced was used on starving men exposed to the elements with sharp pointy implements to force them to maintain their position.
 
The Japanese who didn't have that on their record got prison terms.
 
I simply don't understand the mindset that equates what happened to three murderous terrorists under such controlled circumstances as being in any way equivalent.
April 26, 2009, 5:15:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Forgive me if someone has mentioned this, I haven't had time to read the links or topics much today.
 
The blog Hotair had some links to video of FNC's Steve Harrigan undergoing waterboarding and another of some guy who's a writer.
 
The writer guy talked about how his yoga teacher had taught him a technique to use that would help him during the process and flatly stated he would last at least a couple of minutes.
 
The waterboarding "expert", who would do the process, told him that no he wouldn't and that the yoga technique wouldn't help.
 
The guy lasted about 15 or less before seconds before giving the signal to stop.
 
Both men recovered from the process in about five minutes. There was no choking and little gasping for air in either video.
 
Both subjects commented that they were amazed how little time it took to recover, because the feeling of utter panic was all consuming.
 
In cases where there is a very high level target, I would NOT take this technique off the table.
 
I wish I could now find the links to the videos at Hotair.
 
I'll keep looking.
April 26, 2009, 5:56:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
the left is picking something small out of something much larger to make their point
 
a fox news reporter (steve harrigan back in 06-the video is online-just google it) i dont know if any other reporter was-if so-i cant find any videos of it
April 26, 2009, 6:36:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Well sports fans we have the new young rookie, ripconstitution, in. He looks good but seems much too sensibly pleasant to survive with the mutts in the kennel.
 
It must be halftime b/c the action seems to have stopped at least for now.
 
We"ll have to wait to see who has enough in them to come back for another punishing round.
April 26, 2009, 8:16:19 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Our very own Eyore has made a charming foray onto the field. I'm sure Aunty Em's fans will be glad to see such suppot from the bench.
 
No word of from Patsy yet. Could the diverse team up against him finally convinced him that  
 
ABSOLUTELY NO ONE WANTS PATSY
 
I hope it was as exciting and enjoyable for all of you out there as it was for me.
April 26, 2009, 8:27:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply


joshlbetts
nick berg. 'nough said
April 26, 2009, 8:55:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
Best part : Ann Coulter giving it to Olbermann, Matthews, Maddow. " Putting a caterpillar in a cell is torture if you're an MSNBC host who is afraid of bugs."
ObserverDan | Homepage | 04.26.09 - 8:35 am | #  
 
what did i miss there??
April 26, 2009, 9:27:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply


NotAllAtOnce
Geraldo is a punk and a disgrace. Coulter is a heavyweight there. The others are out of their leagues. I agree, if the likes of Durbin, Reid, Pelosi, Schummer etc hate it, then it's good. Now, when these guys come for our guns, they'll be happy to waterboard all of us to get them.
April 26, 2009, 9:50:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
"Now, when these guys come for our guns, they'll be happy to waterboard all of us to get them."
 
I'll take the waterboarding and keep my guns, thank you very much.
April 26, 2009, 10:13:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
Geraldo is a punk and a disgrace
NotAllAtOnce | 04.26.09 - 9:55 pm
 
so a liberal on fox news with a different point of view is a punk and disgrace? me thinks someone doesnt like the other side of a debate
 
i dont think there'll waterboard anybody to get guns
April 26, 2009, 10:30:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Rob
I cannot watch FOX anymore than I can sit through MSNBC. It is all blathering crap.
April 27, 2009, 8:08:42 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
so a liberal on fox news with a different point of view is a punk and disgrace? me thinks someone doesnt like the other side of a debate
 
i dont think there'll waterboard anybody to get guns
chris | 04.26.09 - 10:35 pm | #  
 
It's Geraldo Rivera, we're talking about here. He's a laughingstock punk and a disgrace no matter how he votes.
 
You want to claim him, he's your's...
April 27, 2009, 3:16:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
how is geraldo rivera a punk and disgrace? and before you answer think about it? i think the the same could be said about other fox news opinion hosts if you want to go there
April 27, 2009, 3:45:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
chris,
 
The part of your argument I addressed was the notion that anyone calling Geraldo those names did so out of partisanship.
 
Controversy and criticism of his judgment and his ethics has followed Rivera (who calls himself a journalist and not an "opinion host") from his tenure at ABC News, to his Springeresque talk show days, and his kiss-and-tell the celebrities he's slept with-- book.  
 
For you to suggest that he only rates opprobrium because of his politics, is ill-informed.
April 27, 2009, 4:22:40 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
It's Geraldo Rivera, we're talking about here. He's a laughingstock punk and a disgrace no matter how he votes.
 
You want to claim him, he's your's...
Cecelia | 04.27.09 - 3:21 pm  
 
so you called him that out of partianship?? ok-i dont think he his maybe be because i dont know his entire history
April 27, 2009, 4:46:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
No, chris, I agreed with the person who called him that, because that is what he is. I didn't label him as liberal. YOU did.
April 27, 2009, 5:17:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
I agreed with the person who called him that, because that is what he is. I didn't label him as liberal. YOU did.
Cecelia | 04.27.09 - 5:22 pm | #  
 
thats only your opinion-just like mine when i say he isnt-we have a disagreement about geraldo-lets just leave it at that
April 27, 2009, 5:41:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
ok-i dont think he his maybe be because i dont know his entire history
chris | 04.27.09 - 4:51 pm | #  
 
Exactly. So how about apologizing to the people (who DO know his history) that you accused of disliking him merely because of his politics.
April 27, 2009, 5:47:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Chris, since you've admitted that you don't know Rivera's history, please apologize for jumping to this conclusion:
 
"so a liberal on fox news with a different point of view is a punk and disgrace? me thinks someone doesnt like the other side of a debate"
April 27, 2009, 7:20:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
Exactly. So how about apologizing to the people (who DO know his history) that you accused of disliking him merely because of his politics.
Cecelia | 04.27.09 - 5:52 pm | #  
 
The part of your argument I addressed was the notion that anyone calling Geraldo those names did so out of partisanship.
 
Cecelia | 04.27.09 - 4:27 pm | #
 
thats why and i wont apologized
April 27, 2009, 7:37:52 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
You accused someone of disliking Rivera solely because he is a liberal.  
 
When given reasons why Rivera is unlikable that have nothing to do with his politics, you then admitted that you don't know his history.
 
If anyone has shown kneejerk political bias towards anyone, you have in jumping to such an assumption, when you're admittedly ignorant about the man.
 
Yes, you do owe people an apology.
April 27, 2009, 8:06:40 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
we disagree-and i will leave it alone-i will comment no longer on geraldo-time to move on
April 27, 2009, 10:09:43 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
...all the Dollarites treat Dollar as their God.
Posted by: john t on Mon 4.27 9:47pm
 
So chris, based on your experience on the two sites so far, which site allows lies to go unchallenged and which one challenges lies?
 
Before you answer, consider whether anyone here considers J$ a "God".
April 27, 2009, 11:03:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
my thoughts between the two sites? ashley thinks i'm the lil feller:
 
A rose, by any other name, and covered in manure, will still smell like the l'il feller.
Ashley | 04.26.09 - 7:59 pm | #  
 
unless that was towards someone else
 
and over at Nh i'm olby sucks on a secret mission
 
as for lies and challanging lies-this site challanges lies
 
i pointed out here that KO doesnt allow opposing viewpoints on his show (oreilly does-i've seen it-oreilly and juan had a great F&b debate tonight) john t didnt like that very much  
 
and like i said-i enjoy commenting and will defend myself when needed-i wont resort to name calling which i have seen on BOTH sites ( i will admit i dont really know which side started it-i'm new)
April 27, 2009, 11:31:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
we disagree-and i will leave it alone-i will comment no longer on geraldo-time to move on
chris | 04.27.09 - 10:14 pm | #  
 
No, it's NOT a matter of opinion.
 
I'm NOT asking you to agree that Geraldo is a punk and a disgrace, or to apologize for not holding that view.
 
You didn't just disagree with that assessment, you impugned the motives of the person who made it.
 
You SHOULD apologize.
April 28, 2009, 8:31:09 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Well, Chris, what people think of you at News Hounds doesn't carry any weight with me, and it shouldn't with anyone else either. THAT is NO indication of your integrity.
 
The enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend. (Not that I consider NHers "enemies", this is just the internet, afterall).
 
In case you don't follow that-- I mean that you should be judged on your honesty and your acumen here, not upon any challenge you do or don't present to people we don't like.
 
You're new and you're jumping into things, so you're going to have to run the hurdles with the regulars on either site, who have seen a lot of duplicity in their time.  
 
No where more than here, where cretins with JD-fixations have enjoyed playing games. AND have enjoyed launching into pity parties over being treated suspiciously or callously, while they REALLY were known suspects trying to deceive people here the entire time.
 
The best advice I can give is not to whine.
 
Did you answer my question about your having posted here before under a name other than 'chris'?
 
Please answer it again now, even if you have, because I missed it.  
 
I want to get that answer on record and get it settled in my mind.
April 28, 2009, 8:50:25 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Before you answer, consider whether anyone here considers J$ a "God".
Fox Fan | Homepage | 04.27.09 - 11:08 pm | #  
 
That's right, one should never bow down and worship the almighty dollar, unless the one with the first name of Johnny buys you new handbags too...
 
hint...hint...
April 28, 2009, 9:45:34 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Guest
cecelia- i wont deceive anyone and I have not posted under any other names-i'm sure we will disagree on fox news/newshounds at times-and i dont consider anybody a "enemy"-i dont think anybody here is "god"-Nh posters can have that opinion all they want-i dont buy it-hurdles? i'm sure-i welcome it
 
foxfan asked me my thoughts between the two sites:
 
newshounds: site to watch foxnews (refuse to acknowledge when their wrong)
 
j$ site: a site that has many times documented lies by videos/ and screenshots-a fact that Nh doesnt like
 
i know i will walk a fine line between sites when commenting (either pro/anti fox news comments)
 
we have already had disagreements and thats fine-and i will try to be honest when commenting (i disagree with oreilly and hannity at times-but i also agree with them at times also)
 
i will not resort to name-calling also
April 28, 2009, 11:29:21 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
I'd say most of the country already worships the almighty dollar, greedy lot of materialistic Americans that we all are.
April 28, 2009, 12:05:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
LOL chris you too must see the humor in this.  
 
"I have not posted under any other names"
Anonymous | 04.28.09 - 11:34 am | #
April 28, 2009, 12:11:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
I sure see the "humor" in it.
 
How about posting the same statement again, Chris, and putting your name on it.
April 28, 2009, 12:38:20 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
oops my fault- that was me cecelia ( i added my name to this time)
 
cecelia- i wont deceive anyone and I have not posted under any other names-i'm sure we will disagree on fox news/newshounds at times-and i dont consider anybody a "enemy"-i dont think anybody here is "god"-Nh posters can have that opinion all they want-i dont buy it-hurdles? i'm sure-i welcome it
 
foxfan asked me my thoughts between the two sites:
 
newshounds: site to watch foxnews (refuse to acknowledge when their wrong)
 
j$ site: a site that has many times documented lies by videos/ and screenshots-a fact that Nh doesnt like
 
i know i will walk a fine line between sites when commenting (either pro/anti fox news comments)
 
we have already had disagreements and thats fine-and i will try to be honest when commenting (i disagree with oreilly and hannity at times-but i also agree with them at times also)
 
i will not resort to name-calling also
Anonymous | 04.28.09 - 11:34 am | #  
 
thank you for pointing that out foxfan yes-i do see the humor- (see what happens when your in a rush? mistakes get made)- but i do not post under any other names
April 28, 2009, 12:43:07 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Thanks, Chris. I'll be keeping this assurance from you for posterity.
 
Since that this is settled, hope you enjoy this site as much as we do.
 
Now, it's time you apologized for saying that the only reason Geraldo Rivera was called a punk and a disgrace is because he is a liberal.
April 28, 2009, 1:07:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
cecelia: you have my word on that
 
as for geraldo-sorry-i didnt know there was more to it
April 28, 2009, 1:48:49 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Apology accepted, chris.
April 28, 2009, 2:25:35 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
 
 
i guess to the anti $ thread-i bowed down to you!!-i said something that wasnt the truth and apolized when presented with the facts
April 28, 2009, 3:52:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
i guess to the anti $ thread-i bowed down to you!!-i said something that wasnt the truth and apolized when presented with the facts
chris | 04.28.09 - 3:57 pm | #  
 
Oh, don't worry about it, sweety. The usual suspects on the 'Johnny Dollar Sucks' thread are always going to sound junior high kids in detention.
April 28, 2009, 4:23:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply


chris
The usual suspects on the 'Johnny Dollar Sucks' thread are always going to sound junior high kids in detention.
 
i agree
April 29, 2009, 10:19:21 AM EDT – Like – Reply