3/21/09 11:50 PM

Weekend Links & Open Thread

Sunday cable news links [4:07 pm]:

ObamaWatch reax: LA Times, The Swamp, HuffPo, Politico. Transcript. Blue-blog blues: TPM, TalkLeft, Kos, Seminal.

F&F needs Page? Whereabouts? Video: Courtney's cameo; Helium!

Jim Pinkerton plugs The Cable Game.

Pix: garden party, dinner, Julie!

MSNBC prunes news.

Why Ken Allard quit.

Dumb cablers.

Ollie North's keynoter.

Sunday talkers.

Bias Alert! Gamism!

Alan's mailbag.

FNC "out to destroy Obama"?

Controversy a la carte.

Cable dis-Grace?

Video: Juan Williams not African-American?!?

Olbermann: hang Limbaugh? Countdown: "scripted propaganda"?

Cafferty fallout.

More Greta pix.

Convention outrage!

Use our valuable bandwidth to post your cable news comments in today's open thread.




Guest
I am sorry but Dr Watkins makes me sick.
April 26, 2008, 12:58:23 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Juan Williams is really Panamanian?!  
 
God damn America!...
April 26, 2008, 1:20:36 AM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
I watched the Moyers' interview with Rev. Wright on PBS tonight, and it really was an eye-opener. When the far right wing mantra which Cecelia shares above was put in its full context, and when Rev. Wright offered the full context, it all made much more sense. God and Scripture are universal, unchanging, but man, with a limited understanding of God's fullness, only perceives God, with all of man's limitations. The perceptions of the officers on the deck are very different than the perceptions of the "cargo" in chains below. Because the officers wrote the history, their perceptions were America's perceptions. And it is those American perceptions, not the nation historically or as it has evolved which ought be damned. I would not have chosen the words Rev. Wright used, nor would Senator Obama, I am certain, but there is wisdom and redemption in those words. They embody an essential truth.
 
Now, I am sure the mantra mouthers did not see the piece and never will. Night crawlers loathing light .... Their laziness and close-mindedness is their loss, to be sure, but it affects all of us as well. So, I am a bit critical of them.
 
I am also critical of cable news. Earlier in the week, we spoke of the real value of cable news being its ability to get news out quickly, and its time to develop a story fully. So, we all ought to have had the opportunity PBS gave us tonight much earlier. However, in its lust for anger (Dobbs, Hannity), its thirst for sleaze and slime (Grace, O'Reilly, Van Sustern, Abrams, MSNBC Doc Block), its search for the derivative and repetitive (the changing hats but not heads on MSNBC, North, Cooper) and its drivel and fluff (F&F, Cooper, again and King), cable news has failed us once again.
 
I will also add, I left the Moyers' program with a bit of wonderment at the mild manner and the depth of theological and Scriptural understanding Rev. Wright has. He has damaged his reputation, his church's reputation and his congregants' reputation, including Senator Obama's, by taking the inflammatory route, to be sure. Our anger with what Rev. Wright said and the manner in which he said it is justifiable. But he does understand that in a nation which remains essentially religious and faithful, sociology springs from anthropology and both spring from theology. That is such a valuable perspective.
 
-
 
As for Williams, I am more familiar with his work on NPR, which I admire greatly, than what I have seen on FNC, in which he seems to be awfully subservient. Still, I like and respect him. I do have African-American friends and colleagues, however, who refer to Williams as "Steppin' Fetchit". Dr. Watkins seems to echo a view that is common. Common is not always correct, however, and I think Williams is mischaracterized.
April 26, 2008, 1:55:17 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
I just listened to the four part video that Fox has of Wright's sermon "Confusing God and Government".
 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352661,00.html
 
According to Wright and his supporters the "God damn America" was taken completely out of context and one has to listen to the whole sermon to understand what Wright actually meant.
 
The first three videos, which last about 40 - 45 minutes, are 90% his version of certain US history and how closely it pararells certain of the oppressive Roman Empire circa 33 AD and 10% Biblical quotations that segue into his ranting political speech.  
 
The 4th segment is about 9 minutes and is all singing and people coming up to Wright to give witness I guess.
 
Having heard his full sermon I think that the excerpt summed up his points and attitude to a tee. I do wish they had a transcript for it. If they did I would copy and paste a few comments. As it is anyone who wants evidence to back up my opinion will have to devote at least the time to listen to the first three videos.
April 26, 2008, 1:56:12 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Damian G.
Grammie, you are absolutely right. Even "in context", Wright's sermons are filth. He even alleges that the U.S. had prior knowledge of Pearl Harbor. I don't like FDR, and even I wouldn't think that!
 
And the sexual motions he made when he said Bill "did us like he did Monica" were wholly inappropriate no matter what the "context".
April 26, 2008, 2:05:43 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Vince P
Here are some audio clips of Wright's sermons:
 
http://www.townhall.com/blog/g/34fedc25-b630-48e8-b2f4-326c5d9d5314?comments=true#comments
 
Note that there is an incredibly annoying ad that preceeds each audio clip that lasts near 50 seconds by the vile Grover Norquist.
 
These are the clips at the link:
 
Jeremiah Wright - 4-13-03 - Cut 1 - Jesus' enemies
 
Jeremiah Wright - 4-13-03 - Cut 2 - Military making war for peace is like raping for virginity.
 
Jeremiah Wright - 4-13-03 - Cut 3 - crusade and jihad are one and the same.
 
Jeremiah Wright - 4-13-03 - Cut 4 - This government lies, Part 1.
 
Jeremiah Wright - 4-13-03 - Cut 5 - This government lies, Part 2.
 
Jeremiah Wright - 4-13-03 - Cut 6 - Education, health care, stolen election.
 
Jeremiah Wright - 4-13-03 - Cut 7 - God damn America, and Condaskeezza Rice.
 
Jeremiah Wright - 9-16-01 - Cut 8 - Race economics in the Bible.
 
Jeremiah Wright - 9-16-01 - Cut 9 - Faith footnote - chickens coming home to roost.
 
Jeremiah Wright - 9-16-01 - Cut 10 - Black people jumping from the WTC towers.
 
Jeremiah Wright - 9-16-01 - Cut 11 - Social transformation.
April 26, 2008, 2:19:16 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Thanks, Damian. After sitting through it I realized that I should have taken quick notes b/c it all came so fast and furious and my short term memory isn't the best anymore. I didn't want to list something that I might have heard or read else where.
 
OTM, for the same investment of time you could have listened to one of his sermons that has been in the spot light in toto. Just think with what panache you could then say " Now, I am sure the mantra mouthers did not see the piece and never will. Night crawlers loathing light .... Their laziness and close-mindedness is their loss, to be sure, but it affects all of us as well. So, I am a bit critical of them."
 
I always think the original source is the best place to go rather than a puff interview by Bill Moyers. Of course it may be that you prefer to take your opinions preformed and ready to eat rather than have to dig it out for yourself.
 
To each his own, I always say.
April 26, 2008, 2:36:20 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Vince P
I listened to all these clips and I don't see how someone could sit through that without going insane.
April 26, 2008, 6:57:28 AM EDT – Like – Reply


tess
The Moyers interview is a must see for everyone! I get it now. He is a man of God.
April 26, 2008, 7:39:59 AM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
J$,
 
Since you work hard to pretend you're above politics and all your liberal-bashing... errr... media links are merely uncovering lies and other misdeeds you find offensive, I'm sure you'll want to sever your ties to Newsbuster (I saw the Olbermann v. Limbaugh link).
 
I know Newshounds sends you into fits. They [allegedly] delete posts when you expose their lies. Despicable stuff.
 
Well, your right-wing buddies over at Newsbusters are at least an order of magnitude worse.  
 
I should have known better. There's no diversity of opinion in their comments. Just right-wing blather, much of it the drive-by 'liberals are rat finks' sort of silliness. But I posted a couple of things of a different political persuasion.  
 
Ka-boooom! My comments not only vaporized but they blocked access to their web site for the particular IP address I was using at the time.  
 
So I'm sure - since you pretend you're liberal-bashing... errr... liberal media watchdog role is all about truth, justice, and fair play - you'll be as critical of them as you are Newhounds (which allows some dissent). You being all upset by such things and the like.  
 
BTW, I took the safety precaution of nailing my chair the floor in preparation for the spin!  
.
April 26, 2008, 8:37:05 AM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
On The Mark,
 
I largely agree with your opinion of cable news. Most of it is the stuff I scape off the bottom of my shoe when my neighbor forgets to take her pooper scooper with her (she adopts dogs).
 
One of my main reasons getting cable many years ago was access to 24x7 news which I used to watch all the time. I now get most of my news off the radio (NPR, XM's POTUS 08 channel, etc.) or straight from the wire services on-line so it doesn't go through the cable news filter.
 
International news, for example, on cable news is an absolute joke. You can sum, for example, Fox News' international coverage up with Shep's embarrassingly bad 80 seconds around the world segment which is obviously so thin in depth it's a waste of time and, worse, so much of it is way-too-cute fluff.  
 
Of course, Fox Fans will argue there's lots if international news on Fox but most of the rest is what fits its political agenda. Beat on Chavez because he said something dumb about President Bush again, for example.
 
Once upon a time, CNN filled in the void but it's a hollow shell of its former self. Trying to compete, it (and MSNBC even to a larger degree) is diluting its news with Fox-clone fluff and endless 'analysis' re-churning crap representing the polarizing left/right extremes from talk radio and the blogs. Once upon a time news was a network public service that lost money. Now it's about easily trading in integrity for a buck.
.
April 26, 2008, 9:08:57 AM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
"As for Williams, I am more familiar with his work on NPR, which I admire greatly, than what I have seen on FNC, in which he seems to be awfully subservient."
 
On The Mark,
 
Last comment of the morning - gotta wrap up my Panera high-test coffee and get some work done - I promise!
 
Fox News is good at pulling 'liberals' to its network who to liberals like me (and I'm not really that liberal) seem to be embarrassingly bad spokesmen, or at the least, pliable as Play-doh.
 
NPR is written off by conservatives as "National People's Radio" or whatever as a far-left propaganda organ. So anyone they bring over, like Juan, is automatically designated liberal. They also brought over Mara from NPR and, lo and behold, we find she was once a registered Republican and rather coy in her description of her past after joining Fox News.
 
Despite all of Fox News' boasting of being "fair and balanced" a lot of their panels - like Brit's "All-Star" panel Mara was on - aren't particularly diverse in opinion. Gotta keep discussions within the confines of the conservative comfort zone (or bring out some really liberal wacko like Ward Churchill to beat on).  
 
Dan Abrams ran a clip that made a point I've made over and over again, that Alan Colmes is a pathetic pudtz playing a classic side-kick role to Sean. His liberal placeholder role dimly glows bright enough for Fox News to check off the list there's a liberal in a room so the show is "fair and balanced" by definition.
.
April 26, 2008, 9:58:54 AM EDT – Like – Reply


olbysucks
You mean the 'lay minister/phiby' condones and defends the 'good reverend' right? Shocker!
April 26, 2008, 10:09:57 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Of course "God damn America!" isn't a "rightwing mantra", it's Rev Wright's. And to listen to his words about this country, its leaders, its courts, its govt -- virtually all its institutions and history, is to understand that his "God damn America" is a form of political expression, not spiritual. And it's a credo far more at home among the Left.
 
I offer no excuse for the way America has treated minorities. But like Mr. Wright, I do point out that context is important, the entire story is important, and that all along throughout history there has been the public discourse of the morality of that treatment and debate about the culture and its laws and that this is part of the natural evolution of any society.
 
Wright understands this. Though he may have faced subtle and not so subtle discrimination during his life, he is a long way from those people who came here in the bowels of a ship. There's much to be done, but there's been progress too.
 
It's this area of Wright's perception and prospection that seems out of whack with mainstream America. Wright's opinions may be shaded in the language of Biblical allegory but they're really political perspectives. America and its dealing in the world, still less than one gnat step away from the seventeenth century. Ameriican as Rome, George Bush Caesar, the Supreme Court including "Uncle Clarence Thomas" as Sanhedrine. The commandment of putting God before the institutions of man wrapped around accusations of virological genocide, colonialism, and Zionist oil grubbing collusion.
 
Oh yes, here is a mindmeld of church and state of scripture and ideology and identity politics that Bill Moyers and company can support! Here is a Jonathan Edwards hell and damnation they can jump pews to!
 
By all means, let's comply with Rev. Wright's wishes and put his sermons "into context". Let's call on him to release all recordings to the public so we can gauge for ourselves the sort of teaching Obama chose to expose himself and his family to all these years.
 
Let's hear the explanations from the Dr. Watsons and the weasle words and cants from amoral political militants who like OTM might too express the thought that though they find Juan Williams somewhat "subserviant" and some of their black friends term him a heinous racist epiphet (meant to intimidate those of color who do not entirely embrace a particular ideology) he/they wouldn't go quite that far...
 
Oh yeah, by all means, let's get it all into context in the days ahead. Let's do expose it to the cleansing light of day.
 
THAT is most certainly long long over due.
April 26, 2008, 10:12:37 AM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> They [allegedly] delete posts when you expose their lies.
 
Now why do you say "allegedly" when they have posted ON YOUR OWN SITE ADMITTING that they do? I'm sorry, but that's the kind of dishonest, sleazy little dig made to sugest that I'm not telling the truth, when you KNOW that I am. And I find it insulting and propagandistic. I'm not even sure why you use an open thread on cable news to start attacking me! But I suppose you know your reasons for posting.
 
> media links are merely uncovering lies and other misdeeds you find offensive
 
You're continuing not to tell the truth. My "media links" are any and all links I find relating to cable news. You'll find links from newsbusters to Daily Kos, from blogs to newspapers to the Huffington Post. THey aren't necessarily about misdeeds and lies but about any noteworthy developments or opinions regarding cable news. I was happy to add the Newsbusters link (probably the first one in weeks) on a suggestion from a commenter. Clear now?
 
> I'm sure - since you pretend you're liberal-bashing... errr... liberal media watchdog role is all about truth, justice, and fair play - you'll be as critical of them as you are Newhounds
 
Conflating yet another thing into the mix? When I'm critical of newshounds it is for lying about Fox. That has NO RELATION to the daily media links which aren't even in the same category. You CAN tell one category from the other, right? If NewsBusters lies about Fox and doesn't allow people to respond, then let me know. Funny, Daily Kos doesn't allow dissenting commenters either, yet I link to them. How come you aren't complaining to me about my left-wing bias? Because when I link to something I don't CARE about their comments. I'm linking to their article.
 
Otherwise, continue on with your sleazy little innuendos about me making stuff up. Your agenda-driven, hyper-partisanship obviously takes precedence over the qualities I look for in honest discussion.
April 26, 2008, 10:29:53 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
I'll be in Connecticut tonight to attend a concert. I'm leaving for there in 40 minutes and won't be near a computer until I get home tomorrow afternoon. It's just as well because it's just going to be an ideological cage match in here anyway; back and forth, back and forth. And since it's ideological, very little of the comments will have to do with cable news. So, have fun, and Johnny, I'm sorry you have to put up with all this.
April 26, 2008, 10:52:05 AM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
sknabt:
 
Excellent analysis about (the lack of) internatiional news on cable news. It is woefully, woefully absent. CNN did broadcast an hour of CNN International during the noon hour, but even that is now gone. I tend to think the powers that be believe we are too dumb to grasp a world view and more interested in gossip. Of course, the posts above with reference to Rev. Wright tend to indicate these powers that be may be correct. Very sad.
 
With reference to Rev. Wright, I do understand that he is offering something nuanced, something that requires more of us to understand than we are willing to invest. In that context, lies the only real tie between Senator Obama and Rev. Wright. Senator Obama sets a very high standard for us. He expects us as voters, as citizens, to listen, to think, to be responsible. Although that is demanding, it is also uplifting. It is a sign of ultimate respect for voters as citizens.
 
I find that refreshing after more than 7 years of being talked down to in what amounts to nothing more than vacuous slogans, and I find that such an attractive alternative to more of the same with Bush III and Clinton II. My fear is that we'll never get the story because it is inconvenient for the cable (and network) news programmers and editors, and a responsibility most of us are far too lazy to undertake.
 
And now, I have to go stockpile foodstuffs as the Bush II Recession enters the Bush II Food Price Crisis Phase.
April 26, 2008, 10:54:41 AM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> It's just as well because it's just going to be an ideological cage match in here  
 
Bingo. You hit it on the mark, if you'll excuse the expression. We've got snkabt jumping in here yelling about left-wing, right-wing, and why some right-wing site won't let him post comments. That's all it takes to get the partisan crossfire ignited, especially when it's souped up with irrelevant conflations and low insinuations about the honesty of your humble webmaster.  
 
Enjoy the concert, we'll look to hear back from you tomorrow.
April 26, 2008, 11:12:57 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Previewing Comment: Click "Publish" to submit your message.
 
Johnny, this link does not work for me:
 
Countdown: "scripted propaganda"?
 
Thanks.
April 26, 2008, 11:51:34 AM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Grammie, that's a haloscan thing. They have burps every now and then and I assume it will eventually resolve itself. I just tried it and it worked OK so maybe that's a good sign
April 26, 2008, 11:54:13 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Guest
J$, you do a great job but the site is starting to be a bash fest instead of how cable is covering stories. There are a lot of elitist comments being thown around, I wont single anyone out but it is not hard to know who is doing it.
This morning on F&F Clayton Morris ask for someone to explain what are elitist comments. I just don't get the guy.
April 26, 2008, 12:01:40 PM EDT – Like – Reply


ImNotBlue
Johnny... I think from now on, when you respond to sknabt... I think you need to include more smiley faces.
April 26, 2008, 12:06:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Heh, thanks for the advice. But I didn't feel very smiley about what he pulled. And still don't.
April 26, 2008, 12:09:11 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
OTM,
 
Since you're concerned about getting the complete story and context out in the open, again, you can start by demanding that Rev. Wright release all sermons in their entirety that he has on tape.
 
I'd be comfortable with his releasing them solely to NPR for broadcast, analysis, and public consumption.
 
That way the entire public, including we "night crawlers", can at least have the opportunity to discern "nuance" and "context", etc.
 
Though you doubt our worthiness and capibilities , it's the only *Democratic thing to do...
April 26, 2008, 12:11:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply


olbysucks
Let's see. I'm watching Fox News right now and they are talking about hamas and their support for obama. Wouldn't that be considered "internationa news?" Just prior to the obama/hamas discussion the topic was Turkey, Isreal and Iraq. Is that not considered "internatonal news" that is "woefully woefully absent?"
April 26, 2008, 12:32:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Vince P
I'm always amused by someone's self-importance when they make the most un-profound declarations like: when it comes to the news, radio/print media is more informative than TV. Really?! Wow!!  
 
Take you all these decades to realize that??
 
The only thing TV has over the other media is the emotional aspect of watching/hearing the news as opposed to just hearing or reading it.
April 26, 2008, 1:47:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Kirk G
Sorry, the last Anonymous was mine. I forgot to put my name in
April 26, 2008, 2:06:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
"Now why do you say 'allegedly' when they have posted ON YOUR OWN SITE ADMITTING that they do? I'm sorry, but that's the kind of dishonest, sleazy little dig made to sugest that I'm not telling the truth, when you KNOW that I am."
 
And you're not telling the whole truth.
 
We're getting into semantics but I think moderation is fair (though I'm far more tolerant than most so get grumpy with ham-fisted moderation), deleting posts for ideological reasons is plain wrong.
 
The debate I had with Ellen (?) at Newshounds revolved around the issue of whether or not you were abusive. You play the martyr. Ellen plays the honest traffic cop. Since I've never personally witnessed Newshounds deleting your stuff I can't referee but so much.
 
If a gun were placed to my head and I was forced to make a call, I'd probably side with you because I've never seen you exhibit the sort of extreme behavior Ellen credits you with and, quite frankly, it would take some pretty extreme behavior for me to censor a person.
 
"And I find it insulting and propagandistic. I'm not even sure why you use an open thread on cable news to start attacking me! But I suppose you know your reasons for posting."
 
First off, my purpose here is not to flame or insult but, obviously, I am a harsh critic of you because I see you guilty of the same games Fox News plays.
 
My comments speak for themselves but lets see if we can follow the bread crumbs.
 
1. You have an open thread which, I assume, is an OPEN thread.
2. You have a link to Newsbusters, a conservative media watchdog.
3. You, hypocritically, have been a critic of, say, Media Matters, a liberal media watchdog in the past.
4. You have jumped up and down over and over and over again on your blog about Newshounds deleting your posts to stifle your contrary opinion.
5. Newsbusters just this past week not only deleted my posts but blocked my IP address to their web site for posting contrary opinions.
 
Clear now?  
 
I'm look for some consistency of behavior. Am I going to get it?
.
April 26, 2008, 2:15:19 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
[continued]
 
"You're continuing not to tell the truth. My 'media links' are any and all links I find relating to cable news. You'll find links from newsbusters to Daily Kos, from blogs to newspapers to the Huffington Post. THey aren't necessarily about misdeeds and lies but about any noteworthy developments or opinions regarding cable news.... Clear now?"
 
If you want to play the "fair and balanced" fence sitter, IMHO, it's silly. Getting beyond the human interest stuff, the bulk of your stuff is liberal-bashing or stuff to make conservatives' blood boil. If you're fair and balanced which stories will I enjoy? Me being all liberal and all.
 
"Olbermann: hang Limbaugh?"  
"Countdown: 'scripted propaganda'?  
"Cafferty fallout" (going after the so-called "Clinton News Network")
Your liberal-bashing "Who's Petty Now"?
 
"Conflating yet another thing into the mix? When I'm critical of newshounds it is for lying about Fox. That has NO RELATION to the daily media links which aren't even in the same category. "
 
Well, I readily admit I'm not a neat thinker so putting every thought into a "category" is a bit strange to me. But I do understand being on topic and I already explained that.
.
April 26, 2008, 2:17:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
[continued]
 
"Otherwise, continue on with your sleazy little innuendos about me making stuff up. Your agenda-driven, hyper-partisanship obviously takes precedence over the qualities I look for in honest discussion."
 
"Hyper-partisanship"? That's a load.
 
Take the rose colored glasses off and honestly criticize Fox News. Bill O'Reilly. Rush Limbaugh. Gibby. Then tell me something about Olby without putting "bathtub boy" in the same sentence.
 
You've, as always, singled out some comments to take a rocket ship to Mars on. Meanwhile, you have completely ignored my general observations on cable news which, unlike "fair and balanced" non-partisan J$, goes after all the cable news sources. If that makes me "hyper-partisan" you must be "hyper-hyper-hyper-partisan."
 
Am I harder on Fox News? Certainly, they are by far the most biased, trash journalism based cable news outfit. But they all earn my wrath.
 
This "hyper-partisan" can go after Ellen on the issue of whether or not they delete your posts. Liberal Newshounds is no sacred cow of mine, though we roughly share similar views of Fox News being heavily biased. I can also go after right-wing Newsbusters for being far worse.
 
You, OTOH, who keep pleading the 5th (like all guilty folks) on being a right-winger try to play the same "fair and balanced" game as your beloved Fox News. Is there something embarassing about being a conservative all of a sudden? I thought it was the liberal label that has become so trashed by Rush and his ilk we were supposed be playing a game of political duck and cover.
 
I challenge you to show the same indignation over Newsbusters' far more iron fisted partisan polices than Newshounds because I know you can't. No more than you can find your way to criticize Bill O'Reilly when he behaves badly like Olby (which is pretty much SOP for Bill).
.
April 26, 2008, 2:18:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> I'm look for some consistency of behavior. Am I going to get it?
 
Well let's see.
 
> You, hypocritically, have been a critic of, say, Media Matters, a liberal media watchdog in the past.
 
Well that hasn't stopped me from linking to their articles, as I did in one of my recent open thread postings. Is that the kind of consistency you're looking for? Funny, you didn't come running over here ranting about that.
 
> Newsbusters just this past week not only deleted my posts but blocked my IP address
 
And therefore I should never link to one of their articles? Because they banned sknabt. Oops, I should say ALLEGEDLY. I didn't know anything about, I don't know why they did it ALLEGEDLY, and I don't care. I link to articles from all sorts of places and for the last time, that doesn't mean I endorse them.
 
Yes this is an open thread: about cable news. You want to make it an open thread about attacking Johnny Dollar. What are you going to bring up next, projected hoe-handle distributiion for fiscal year 2008-2009? The thread is about Cable News.
 
Thank you for your comment.
April 26, 2008, 2:19:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
OK sknabt you have had your say. But please be advised that these threads are not political smorgasboards for a stream-of-consciousness diatribe about whatever comes into your mind. They are for discussing cable news topics. You've called me enough names for one day. You can go back and report on how successful you were. But this is not the place to pile on me or any other poster here, and it will not be allowed further.
 
Thank you for your comment.
April 26, 2008, 2:22:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
"on FNC, in which he seems to be awfully subservient. Still, I like and respect him. I do have African-American friends and colleagues, however, who refer to Williams as "Steppin' Fetchit".  
 
So, you don't call a very successful and generally admired black journalist, author and radio host a "Steppin Fetchit". OTM would never show such racist contempt. OTM only repeats what his many black friends and colleagues say and by virtue of their blackness you are merely the conduit, not the racist. As many conversations as I have had over the years with black friends and coworkers that was focused solely on Juan Williams or any other black public figure you are the first to bring up such an insulting term in regards to him or anyone else. What kind of people do you associate with?
 
Also, about this "subservience" that you detect in Mr Williams only when he appears on Fox, never else where. I have never noticed any such behavior on his part. How about two or three citations that illustrate this glaring subservience. With your tutelage perhaps I will become sensitive to the crushing racism that you seem to think is so prevelant that I don't see on Fox.
April 26, 2008, 2:24:07 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Every time I hear this about Juan Williams the first thing that comes to mind are his exchanges with Brit Hume on Sunday mornings. They go at it hammer and tong, but hey, he's on Fox, so he's "subservient".
April 26, 2008, 2:28:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
I just consider the source. Only OTM would accuse everyone here except for one or two "night crawlers", "lazy", "close minded" and shortly thereafter call a man of Juan Williams' talent and achievement "Stepin Fetchit" while regularly accusing everyone else of being name callers and racists.
 
OTM, Clucker, Monsieur Capon by any other name is still what he is: A Troll.
April 26, 2008, 2:42:37 PM EDT – Like – Reply


tony
sknabt: I admit that I did not read your entire post because I got board (and dizzy). But I have had numerous posts deleted on newshounds. If you give a view that they disagree with, they call you names and then zap your post. Those people over there are insane, but I have to admit its fun setting them off.
April 26, 2008, 2:46:51 PM EDT – Like – Reply


david smawley
Johnny, please don't allow sknabt to waste any more perfectly good thread space with his need to spread this verbal diarrhea. There are many sites designed for this type of tripe, no need to put up with it here.
April 26, 2008, 3:44:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
I'm not going to prevent him if he wants to discuss cable news and stay within the rules. However, he will not be permitted to hijack the thread for other purposes. He has been warned.
April 26, 2008, 4:07:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Vince P
Wow this is great . Newsbusters has an article about how Abrams of MSNBC is all up in arms because Obama is going to be on with Chris Wallace.. and how could Obama do that considering that Fox is biased!
 
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/04/26/msnbcs-abrams-i-dont-think-obama-should-go-fox-news
 
You must read this.
 
This election is going to be so much fun.. these Leftists are out of their mind deranged.
April 26, 2008, 4:41:58 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Vince, you can take it from me, a little gray haired old Grammie, that these "Leftists" go way beyond "out of their mind deranged" and fall to the bottom of the "fornicating pecans" barrel!
April 26, 2008, 5:05:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
A nice big splash of ice cold water on Abrams' red hot hyperbole via Chris Wallace:
 
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/04/26/wallace-has-very-friendly-exchange-obama
 
"Wallace Has 'A Very Friendly Exchange' With Obama"
April 26, 2008, 5:17:58 PM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
I hardly think it my responsibility to ask Rev. Wright to release all of his sermons, and I wouldn't be so rude and out-of-line to do so. We have a fair and balanced cable news network so many of you greatly admire. Perhaps one of its reporters can be pulled off a Hannah Montana or white girl gone missing story and secure the tapes. It seems to be more its mission than mine.
 
I am beginning to think that the problem is not FNC, but the faux Crusade-like zeal and self-righteous absorption of some of its fans. On balance, FNC may not be any sorrier than the other the other cable news networks.
 
---
 
Thanks for the FCC link, Johnny. I would probably not have come across that. When speaking of Crusade-like zeal, the FCC has been sorely stricken since the Bush reign began. In bad war movies, the insurgents always go after the radio stations first. Apparently, the dogmatists in the Administration watch those movies. So far, their coup has been largely unsuccessful. Let's all hope their fortunes continue to dwindle as night falls on the royalist loyalists. As poor as cable news can be, it has been a force in slapping back the over-reaching hand of those seeking to cut parts out of our Constitution.
April 26, 2008, 5:18:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Well Fox has in fact put the entire GD America sermon on its website. So your sarcasm aside, it helps to be informed on what a news channel is doing before you take swipes at them.
 
I'm not sure what white girl missing story you are talking about. I've been watching Fox all day and STILL don't know what white girl missing story you are talking about. But it IS a handy stereotype to pull out when needed.
April 26, 2008, 5:22:37 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Vince P
Is OTM complaining that people are actually seeking out the sermons so that they can get more than just a soundbite?
 
In other words.. how dare people try to get more information regarding what Wright said. That people should be content with just the information they already have.
 
This attitude of keeping oneself ignorant and criticizing those who seek our more information is why the Left remains keenly ignorant about things like Islamic jihad.
April 26, 2008, 5:28:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply


david smawley
Who better to address "SELF RIGHTE0US ABSORPTION" than our humble poster OTM.
April 26, 2008, 5:43:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
My god! You'd think Dan Abrams was Obama's campaign strategist!
 
It's hard to detect what motivates Abrams more; protecting HIS candidate, or denouncing his cable competition.
 
Has there been any Republican candidate in history that has caused so many media people to beat their breasts over the treatment this candidate receives from their own colleagues?!
 
I agree with Abrams that F & F should not have been dealing in unfounded innuendo about Obama's religious background. But for a REGULAR example of that, Abrams need look no farther than his own Keith Olbermann and his often aired conspiracy theories about everything from Rove timing terrorist alerts to Administration plans to invade Iran. F & F ALLOWS Obama supporters and Democrats in general on their show. Olbermann's show is strictly a liberal salon, with no rebuttal.
 
Contrast Abrams' statement about legitimizing FNC (I have news for you Mr., the public HAS legitimized them) with the Huffpo's Mr. Stoddard. I appreciate his comments. Reason vs spin always has a certain ring to it, does it not... It always brings clarity and a sense of honesty, as contrasted with the emotions you'd experience upon meeting a mafia lawyer...
April 26, 2008, 5:52:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Might I remind OTM about his preening praise of himself for spending an hour watching Bill Moyers and Reverend Wright in such a loving and tender embrace that exposed the night crawlers for their refusal to sit at the feet of Bill Moyers and Barack Obama, the new messiahs.
 
I spent that same time listening to the actual WORDS from Reverend Wright . Wright's words in his sermon prove that he and Moyers were engaged in an exercise in futility trying to spin Wright and his message into lovely pink cotton candy.
 
Let me thank you, OTM, b/c I am emulating you. This is so easy! Just spin any tale, much as cotton candy is spun, and voila! your opponents can't marshall an argument against the wispy trails of your cotton candy.
April 26, 2008, 5:53:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Of course what Abrams didn't tell you about F&F was 1. They issued a correction on the story the next day. And B: that while discussing the madrassa they said--repeatedly--that Obama was in fact a Christian. In fact Kilmeade called him a "born again Christian". But Abrams didn't show that part of the clip. Why do you suppose that was?
April 26, 2008, 6:13:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Vince P
I spent that same time listening to the actual WORDS from Reverend Wright  
 
I did the same thing.
 
It was awful... That ranting... I felt like I was in a crazy house.
April 26, 2008, 6:17:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
Four years of Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews nightly speculating and weaving scenarios of Bush Administration malfeasance that would have made Watergate look like peanuts had it gone down and THIS is what Dan Abrams calls being unfair?
April 26, 2008, 6:21:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply


On The Mark
Rather amazing that in the Attack of the Night Crawlers, a far more vicious species than I might have imagined, no one goes back and reads that I referred to the context of the actual sermons and to the discussion about the sermons. As I would have thought, no one could be bothered to watch the Moyers program, but no one felt restrained from offer critiques of it. Deja vu, without the accent marks.
 
I am pleased, Vince that you and everyone else has the opportunity to read the sermons or to hear the sermons in their entirety. I encourage people to do so. Given a full, fair and impartial reading or listening in the broader context, the substance takes on a far different meaning than the snippets which the Hannity's and the O'Reilly's, the Limbaugh's and the Beck's bleat and moan, whine and wince over, gnash and thrash daily, ad nauseum. While I still can't say I agree with sermons in their entirety, and I can, in fact, say, uncategorically, I do not, a point that will no doubt be lost be the torch-toting peasants single-mindedly ascending the mountain to the manorhouse, I can say that each seems to convey a truth, an experience, a sense of personhood which survived the torments of intolerance, injustice a racism in America. I have read many of the sermons, I have heard some of them, and I am a better person for the reading and hearing of them. I am better because of what the sermons conveyed, better because I took the time and made the effort to analyze them, better because in my analysis I took away what I perceived truth and rejected what I perceived as bitterness, false teaching and hubris, of which there was much. I say that not in a condescending fashion, but rather envious of those who can so quickly find and tenaciously cling to the fault, the same people who can no doubt say with full certitude they dislike Sicilian lemon ices without ever having sampled one.
 
And, Johnny, you are absolutely right, I did use a steroetype, and I did so intentionally. But you cannot seriously argue that we were not flooded, inundated with stories from Van Sustern and Grace, and to a lesser extent, Hannity and O'Reilly, about Chandra Levy, Natalee Holloway, the seriously unbalanced and spooky "Runaway Bride", while scarce mention was made of Tameka Huston or Latoyia Figueroia. FNC was not alone guilty, but it was certainly and justifiably one of the accused. It is only by the grace of the endless Democratic primary that we are spared more such stories. In many stereotypes, there is a kernel of truth. And, one of the truths is, these stories would not have persisted if there were not a sufficient number of viewers drawn to the tawdry, the sordid and the gossipy. Shame on us, far more than shame on the cable news networks.
 
By the way, I am with you a 100% on Abrams. If I were to buy MSNBC, he would be the first out of the door.
April 26, 2008, 8:45:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
So OTM has heard what he embraced what he wished to hear in the Rev. Wright's sermons and has dismissed what he did not wish to hear.
 
A lifelong pattern, I've no doubt.
April 26, 2008, 9:00:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
OTM, were you the author of that Harlequin best seller blockbuster that began with "It was a dark and stormy night" and ended with "She shivered with delight and desire [tingling up her leg a la Chrissy]? If not that book which Harlequin best seller do I recognize your pretentious over blown flowery rhetoric from? Surely I have read this " the substance takes on a far different meaning than the snippets which the Hannity's and the O'Reilly's, the Limbaugh's and the Beck's bleat and moan, whine and wince over, gnash and thrash daily, ad nauseum. While I still can't say I agree with sermons in their entirety, and I can, in fact, say, uncategorically, I do not, a point that will no doubt be lost be the torch-toting peasants single-mindedly ascending the mountain to the manorhouse, I can say that each seems to convey a truth, an experience, a sense of personhood which survived the torments of intolerance, injustice a racism in America."
 
I just know that I have read, heard and seen in many a cheap novel and over wrought B movie this same slop over and over. Give me a break! Where are you copying this from: "bleat and moan, whine and wince over, gnash and thrash daily, ad nauseum."
 
As if that it is not bad enough you conjure up more fifth rate over blown rhetoric "I can, in fact, say, uncategorically, I do not, a point that will no doubt be lost be the torch-toting peasants single-mindedly ascending the mountain to the manorhouse, ". I would like to see you diagram that mish mash of obtusement into a coherent thought. Plus, I do think substituting "flambeau waving peasants" would give an extra flair to that rather mundane dull "torch-toting".
April 26, 2008, 9:54:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Johnny, I hate to be a pain but I have linked on "Scripted propoganda" a few dozen times with no success.
 
The title sounds so interesting.
April 26, 2008, 10:17:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
You're NOT a pain. I won't catch bad links like that unless someone tells me about it. I was sure it worked before but I've fixed it now and it should get you there. The relevant portion begins at "The Torch Was Passed".
April 26, 2008, 10:43:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> A nice big splash of ice cold water on Abrams' red hot hyperbole via Chris Wallace:
 
Hey Grammie, that newsbusters piece just recycles what I posted right here! Look just below this open link posting for the video. But ah 'preciate anybody submitting links they believe to be relevant, as I can't catch them all. So keep it up, but check our other posts too!
April 26, 2008, 10:45:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Thanks, Johnny, "scripted propoganda" was an interesting read.
 
I think I know how I keep doing it. I link to something from here and when I'm finished reading it think that is really good and would be perfect for J
April 27, 2008, 3:01:55 AM EDT – Like – Reply


david smawley
Quite a media Garden Party turnout. Would have loved to hear some of the small talk.
April 27, 2008, 8:08:31 AM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
On The Mark,
 
"... (the lack of) internatiional news on cable news. It is woefully, woefully absent.... I tend to think the powers that be believe we are too dumb to grasp a world view and more interested in gossip."
 
Last last night I was driving home. POTUS 08, an excellent XM channel I've been glued to, was in rerun mode so I a ran through my radio dial. XM has Fox News (while we're not strictly talking cables news, it's an extension of it).
 
What's Fox News talking about? No joke. It's 'analysis' of some sensational police case. I'm not listening for 30 seconds and I'm hearing about the police documenting the orgies some woman allegedly participated in and how the police went into great details documenting each sexual position she used.
 
No, I'm not making this up. Is there any low depths of sleaze Fox News will not degrade itself with to sizzle up the 'news' to chase a buck?
 
I quickly changed channels in disgust. I pick up CNN. It's some breathless talking head (he sounded like a carnival barker) introducing an entertainment 'news' program focused on the most shocking and sensational celebrity divorces. Pure sleazy tabloid trash.
 
Again, these are radio extensions of cable news but it gets back to your comments on viewer interest. While I don't think people are generally "dumb," I do agree people seek news not so much for information but to be entertained.
 
Getting back to cables news, that's the success of Fox. Endless "news alerts" for the ADD crowd. A heavy emphasis on tabloid trash and silly fluff (a couple of minutes ago Fox & Friends was going through stupid YouTube videos). And, targeting conservatives, they've turned politics into entertainment by mimicking highly popular right-wing talk radio. 
 
Sexed up and highly spun news focused on a particular demographic. Is that the (profitable) future of cable news?
 
While the other cable outlets are copying aspects of Fox News in a race to bottom of a journalistic sewer, none do it better. I guess that's some small consolation prize for now. 
 
I'll get to your Rev. Wright comment (indirectly) in my next post.
.
April 27, 2008, 8:16:28 AM EDT – Like – Reply


VinceP1974
You could always tune into NPR and listen to the story of young Maria who was erroneously transported to Madagastar by NGO Relief Organizations on an EU-chartered solar-powered Airbus and follow her struggle to walk back to her shanty in the barrios of Chicago with the sound of arab women undulating as background music
April 27, 2008, 8:30:07 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
And don't forget to tune into MSNBC when you arrive home.
 
You can watch "doc blocks"-- prison inmates bartering for cigarettes or a show about weirdos with tattoo fetishes.
April 27, 2008, 8:44:40 AM EDT – Like – Reply


david smawley
Hey, I am in 100% agreement with something sknabt has posted - "Highly Popular Right Wing Talk Radio". Ditto's sknabt!
April 27, 2008, 8:50:50 AM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
On The Mark,
 
Regarding Rev. Wright I can't really comment. I haven't looked into the story past the sensational, data-mined trash that dominates cable news.
 
Data-mining sensational tidbits, while lousy journalism, sells because it heats up discussions and keeps partisan news junkies glued to their sets for their next outrage fix.
 
I'll give you an example I'm more familiar with. 
 
How many times have we seen debates over high gas prices on cable news? How often is it some right-winger ranting some libertarian rubbish that capitalism is working and all we need to do is build more refineries in someone else's back yard sitting across the table from some left-winger ranting it's all a part of a Dick Cheney conspiracy going back to his closed door energy meetings?
 
What do we learn from these sorts of debates? Absolutely nothing. 
 
What's really going on best I can gather from America's pretty lousy news media?
 
Of course, we hear speculators, increased demand, and a trashed dollar have led to high oil prices. True enough. And, naturally, we assume that explains why gas prices are just as high at the pump. A no-brainer, right?
 
There's a nagging problem. Oil company "windfall" profits. If the cost of their raw material rises and their margins remain flat where do the record-busting profits come from? 
 
I'm sure they get a chunk of the inflated price of raw oil but countries like Russia, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, and Argentina tend to elbow oil companies out of much of that $$.
 
So I hear - outside of cable news (huge surprise) - that refiners aren't making any money. Huh? It makes no sense. Yet, in fact, refiners are cutting back production! 
 
So here's the under-reported story. 
 
Of course raw crude is at record levels, largely from speculation of late. Obviously, refiners have to pay those inflated prices for their raw material. However, since speculation and not demand are running up the price of crude, the price of refined products like gasoline are not reflected at the wholesale level. At the time I heard the analysis (a few weeks ago) refiners were getting, I believe, about $2.69 for refined gasoline. However, based upon crude oil prices, the price should be $3.25 for refiners to get their expected profit. So, to get prices up to expected levels, refiners were reducing production (supply). 
 
Here's the twist. Oil companies are pricing gasoline to match the expected price (based upon crude oil price) not the price they're paying at the wholesale level. This explains a lot of the windfall profits. So, as I understand it, oil companies are pulling a bit of a fast one here.
 
Obviously, there's still more details I'd like to see filled in but my point is few Americans have a realistic understanding of the topic because the truth is boring. I guarantee millions of Americans have memorized the right-wing/left-wing talking points on the topic cable news obsesses over because it's entertaining. 
.
April 27, 2008, 8:57:50 AM EDT – Like – Reply


VinceP1974
sknabt: There's no excuse to avoid getting the full Wright context. The link I provided in my comment way up above lists all the various clips that Hugh Hewitt played on his broadcast on Friday.
 
And lest you complain that you can't listen to the audio, Hugh Hewitt even went to the trouble of transcripting the sermons , so you can print them and read them in the bathroom (where they belong).
 
Here is the link again:
 
http://www.townhall.com/blog/g/34fedc25-b630-48e8-b2f4-326c5d9d5314?comments=true#comments
 
If you have time to go off on tangets about commodity prices, you can find time to get the full Wright experience.
April 27, 2008, 9:14:39 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
"Data-mining sensational tidbits, while lousy journalism, sells because it heats up discussions and keeps partisan news junkies glued to their sets for their next outrage fix."
 
And if there's one thing sknabt is NOT, it's an agenda-wielding partisan with a grudge...
April 27, 2008, 9:15:28 AM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> I haven't looked into the story past the sensational, data-mined trash that dominates cable news.
 
Yeah that's typical cable news (read: evil Fox), picking stuff out of context like the US government invented AIDS to kill black people. Except that in this case, it was Jake Tapper of ABC news who dug through those sermons and broke the story about the most incendiary quotes. Last time I checked, ABC News is not a cable news channel.
April 27, 2008, 9:33:45 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
"I'm not listening for 30 seconds and I'm hearing about the police documenting the orgies some woman allegedly participated in and how the police went into great details documenting each sexual position she used."
 
Well, skmabt, did you learn about anything new? Do let us know the upshot of anything that you try, OK?
 
That is the really important stuff I've always thought.
April 27, 2008, 9:56:10 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
In between experimenting with your hard won knowledge from last night, shnabt, you could try this link that I posted right before Vince's excellent link:
 
"I just listened to the four part video that Fox has of Wright's sermon "Confusing God and Government".
 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/ 0,2...,352661,00.html
 
This is almost an hour of pure, undiluted Wright and certainly provides that context that so many say is missing.
April 27, 2008, 10:06:21 AM EDT – Like – Reply


On the Mark
"The" interview didn't produce the desired and expected confrontation, so I expect many people will be disappointed. On balance, I give Wallace a high C for interviewer and Obama a high B for interviewee.
 
I am going to have to watch the rebroadcast on FNC this afternoon. The morning feed to the local FOX affiliate had terrible sound quality, hopefully due to a strong storm passing through our area. It was very diifcult to hear the interview itself, although the Panel was reasonably clear and the commercials were strong. 
 
And, although trivial, Wallace's make-up was terrible. He looked like Gore at a debate or (Nancy) Reagan at her McCain endorsement speech, with big splotches of rouge plastered on the (facial) cheeks. The only reason this was a particular problem for Wallace is that he already has a corpse-like appearance. This accentuated that.
 
Wallace seemed to follow the Gibson/Stephanopolous debate strategy, hitting on the vast, titillating irrelevants. I though, well, here we go, again. When the real issues were finally hit, I think the interview went well, very well. Obama may well need to send Wallace flowers, as I expect this interview shows he is back on track. The answers showed a moderate, grounded, progressive candidate, not a house burner, but also not one reticent to tear out a few walls to make the house more livable and appealing.
 
Wallace controlled his talk over tendency and also shifted out of gotcha mode.
 
This was a net win for Obama and FNC. Congratulations to both.
April 27, 2008, 11:23:37 AM EDT – Like – Reply


ImNotBlue
I love the comments on the KOS site... they don't know what to think!
 
Half are upset with Obama for going on FNC... and the other half are upset with the other Kossaks for being upset with Obama!
 
The infighting is pretty funny.
April 27, 2008, 11:29:56 AM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
VinceP:
 
"There's no excuse to avoid getting the full Wright context. The link I provided in my comment way up above lists all the various clips that Hugh Hewitt played on his broadcast on Friday.
 
And lest you complain that you can't listen to the audio, Hugh Hewitt even went to the trouble of transcripting the sermons , so you can print them and read them in the bathroom (where they belong)."
 
I'm not looking for an "excuse" to avoid Rev. Wright's comments. He's no sacred cow of mine.
 
BTW, your link was bad but, based upon the Townhall masthead, I was able find Hewett's blog. Forgive me for not really digging into Hewett's stuff but seeing him listed with partisans like Medved, Gallager, etc. indicates to me he's just another spin-doctor.
 
When I do research I don't run off to some like-minded pundit. Pundits don't provide information they provide entertaining (usually) points of view.
 
There's not a single pundit I consider myself a fan of though, occasionally, I'll watch/listen to pundit shows.
.
April 27, 2008, 12:08:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply


VinceP1974
lol , Hugh Hewitt merely breaks up the sermon into small audio files and provides a transcript and sknabt claims that somehow he didn't do that.
April 27, 2008, 12:18:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
I'mNotBlue, I'm with you. I absolutely love reading the comments at the really dark blue blogs. 
 
They all sound like first class satirists yet they are being dead serious and they attack each other like a ravenous bunch of cannibals breaking a long fast over any deviation from each individual's ideology.
 
One would think from reading them that Obama is a condemned Christian and Fox ran the wild animal games at the Colliseum in Imperial Rome.
April 27, 2008, 12:23:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
sknabt, what is your problem with using the video that I have linked to twice that is the complete unabridged version marketed by the Reverend Wright himself. Surely you are not declaring that Reverend Wright and the marketing arm of his church are:
 
"BTW, your link was bad but, based upon the Townhall masthead, I was able find Hewett's blog. Forgive me for not really digging into Hewett's stuff but seeing him listed with partisans like Medved, Gallager, etc. indicates to me he's just another spin-doctor.
 
When I do research I don't run off to some like-minded pundit. Pundits don't provide information they provide entertaining (usually) points of view.
 
There's not a single pundit I consider myself a fan of though, occasionally, I'll watch/listen to pundit shows."
 
The God Damn transcripts from the link Vince provided are totally in sync with the video of the sermon that Reverend Wright preached and salesman Wright marketed.
 
You are starting to remind me of a rabbit caught in a snare contemplating chewing his own foot off to escape.
April 27, 2008, 12:45:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Me, me, me ME! Johnny. I spotted the blooper:
 
"Sen. Barack Obama, who told Chris Matthews of Fox News Sunday".
 
It was Chris Wallace not Chris Tingle Up My Leg Mathews.
 
Ohhh, I hope its a good prize! 
April 27, 2008, 1:03:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
I don't have much stomach for blue-blog comment board angst and anger and just read the official blogs and not the comments. 
 
That said there's a certain object lesson to be had in the diarist at the Kos link. Mother Mercy! Someone hand this guy a ceremonial suicide sword...
 
A friend of mine who has been an elected official and pressed the flesh of the political and media bigwigs, once told me that the farther you are from power and the less control you feel you have over your life, the more likely you are to see politics and political opponents in warfare like terms.
 
I could see that then, but now after becoming more exposed to political junkies via the internet, I think I'd revise my friend's statement to say that the more control freak you are, the more you wish that everyone else's thoughts, words, and deeds be precisely on course with your own, the more likely you are to see politics in the aforementioned terms.
 
They're utter and complete control freaks. With them it's "my way or the highway" to the entire world...
April 27, 2008, 1:05:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
The Bloober-- is cute!
April 27, 2008, 1:05:58 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Grammie, you win the prize. You are Commenter of the Day!
April 27, 2008, 1:17:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Aw, they went and fixed the blooper. I'll have to take the link down but here it is for posterity:
 
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/04/sunday-surveill.html
 
For the record, it read "Obama, who told Chris Matthews of Fox News Sunday...".
April 27, 2008, 1:38:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
"And therefore I should never link to one of their articles? Because they banned sknabt. Oops, I should say ALLEGEDLY. I didn't know anything about, I don't know why they did it ALLEGEDLY, and I don't care."
 
Of course you don't care, that's the point. Right on cue. 
 
"Yes this is an open thread: about cable news. You want to make it an open thread about attacking Johnny Dollar."
 
Despite the fact I'm under threat of banishment, we both know perfectly well I'm on topic. Fox News, last time I checked, is a cable news network. It's pretty obvious to the world they carry a conservative bias which is where your biases come into play. It goes directly to evidence.
 
But let's stick within the strict confines of the rules you're bringing up. I think we'll quickly find out the issue isn't my behavior but my ideology.
 
So you provide a "Olbermann: hang Limbaugh" Newsbusters link. Lets discuss it.
 
I'm sure you'll agree with me Newsbusters is a heavily biased source. That's beyond question.
 
I'm sure you'll also agree with me the blog post is not telling the entire story. 
 
Now after Newsbusters trimmed the context down, the blogger's dismissive spin that the Democrats aren't listening to Rush looks reasonable. But, of course, context is a troubling thing.
 
Rush's larger Operation Chaos isn't him calling Democrats to arms, it's him calling Republicans to arms to vote for Hillary in the primaries to defeat Obama. 
 
So the real issue - as opposed to Newsbusters' phony issue - is Rush using his partisan base.
 
Now, I'm hardly the Rush expert. I thought the original purpose was to elect Hillary, the weaker candidate. Now, listening to a Rush clip, he's saying the plan all along was to stir up friction. Whatever.
 
The salient point now is Rush, who appears less interested in democracy than outcome, thinks riots are a grand thing.
 
J$, since you're not ideological and neither is your picking of this link, you will have to agree with me this notion is pretty low.
 
Yes, I realize you loath Olby. But, at it's roots, this has nothing to do with him even though the backdrop here is right-wing Newsbusters in a tug of war with left-wing Keith. Because all his spin about violating the law, anarchists of the past and such is him just whipping up the loyal troops. Kick that stuff to the curb.
 
No, the real issue is disgust over partisan talking head Rush's throwing yet another attention-grabbing temper tantrum: "The dream end of this is that this keeps up to the convention and we have a replay of Chicago 1968 with burning cars, protests, fires, literal riots, and all of that. That’s that’s the objective here.” 
 
I'm sure you'll agree with me anyone hoping for riots on American streets doesn't have American interests at heart.
.
April 27, 2008, 2:41:11 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
"You are starting to remind me of a rabbit caught in a snare contemplating chewing his own foot off to escape."
 
Escape from what?
 
Am I a Rev. Wright apologist? Nope. Am I a closet Obama supporter? Not really. I didn't vote for him in the primaries.
 
I was listening to a replay of Zogby's show on POTUS 08. According to the polls the Rev. Wright stuff and Obama's arrogant stuff over bitter voters is near the top of the list of conservatives as an issue regarding their opposition to the man.
 
Interestingly, it's not a big issue particularly with anyone else.
 
It's an issue but, IMHO, it isn't critical in my choice of candidates. We can dig up troubling stuff on all candidates. Whoever I pick, I'm sure to once again hold my nose making the choice.
.
April 27, 2008, 2:51:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> The salient point now is Rush, who appears less interested in democracy than outcome, thinks riots are a grand thing.
 
Wrong. The salient point that goes to the issue of cable news, is that Olbermann devoted a discussion to it . Rush Limbaugh? Not on topic. Olbermann going after Limbaugh with a hanging (lynching?) analogy? On topic. Just as HuffPo found it noteworthy when Olby went after Hillary Clinton with a far more amorphous "beating up a woman" analogy. I understand that conversations can bleed out a little into the substance of the issue itself, beyond just the cable news aspects of it.
 
A final warning. Attacking me based on your Kreskin-like reading of my innermost "biases"? On this thread: not on topic.
April 27, 2008, 3:11:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply


VinceP1974
I'm watching Wallace's interview with Obama. Chris asks Obama "You claim to be a uniter. McCain has risked his career many times by adopting proposals with people from the Democratic Party like Campaign Reform, Immigration , etc.... What positions of the Republicans would you risk your career over becuase you think they have better ideas?"
 
And the answer ...
 
"Cutting Regulations"
 
WHAT A EMPTY SUIT 
 
lol
April 27, 2008, 4:33:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Penopbscot, why do you continually contort yourself in such long torturous NON answers?
 
I asked you this:
 
"sknabt, what is your problem with using the video that I have linked to twice that is the complete unabridged version marketed by the Reverend Wright himself. "
 
Surely you are not declaring that Reverend Wright and the marketing arm of his church are:
 
"BTW, your link was bad but, based upon the Townhall masthead, I was able find Hewett's blog. Forgive me for not really digging into Hewett's stuff but seeing him listed with partisans like Medved, Gallager, etc. indicates to me he's just another spin-doctor.
 
When I do research I don't run off to some like-minded pundit. Pundits don't provide information they provide entertaining (usually) points of view.
 
There's not a single pundit I consider myself a fan of though, occasionally, I'll watch/listen to pundit shows."
 
I have just used the complete contextual quotes of your very own words to ask you a question. So why have you skipped jumped over it as if it were never asked.
 
Why won't you address the very words that Reverend Wright personally sanctioned and marketed ? What is your problem that you seem compelled to avoid bare bone facts and veer off into nonsensical tangents?
 
The God Damn transcripts from the link Vince provided are totally in sync with the video of the sermon that Reverend Wright preached and salesman Wright marketed. So why do you veer off helter skelter and turn a blind eye to the Gospel According to Reverend Wright?
April 27, 2008, 4:57:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply


david smawley
On a lighter note, I really enjoyed the pic's from the correspondents day activities. Thanks for posting them Johnny!
April 27, 2008, 5:02:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
Well, I'm back home and have been home for two hours. The concert, as well as the experience in Milford (CT), was great. Many of the musicians were staying at the same hotel I was at, and on the same floor. I actually met one of them as we tried in vain to use the two computers in the lobby connected to Wi-Fi internet. The connection was shoddy at best. So, I gave up.
As I said yesterday before I left, it's just as well because I've been proven right. It really *has* been an ideological cage match in here. So, I'm going to yield the floor to that match and resume commenting tomorrow...or shortly after midnight, depending on when the Monday Open Thread is posted.
April 27, 2008, 5:38:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
Okay, a few quick things, then I'm done till tomorrow:
1) Way to go, A.B., for standing up to the far-left Fox haters at MSNBC.
2) There is no feud between BOR and KO. The fact that Craig Ferguson would even bring up that there is one makes me want to erase my DVR recording of the dinner before I even watch it. Should I do that?
3) (sarcasm): Aww, the poor blue blogs.
4) I haven't even seen the Obama interview yet. I'm sure it was great. When FNS aired, I was sleeping and then getting up and preparing to leave for home.
April 27, 2008, 6:29:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Ferguson wasn't bad. A far sight better than anyone they used over the last few years for sure.
April 27, 2008, 6:30:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
Okay. And I liked Rich Little last year. Unfortunately, he didn't match the ideology.
April 27, 2008, 6:57:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
Well we disagree on that. I've been a Rich Little fan for years, but I thought he was really off his game at last year's dinner. At least they didn't pick Bill Maher.
April 27, 2008, 7:11:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
I thought he was off his game because of the crowd? Whatever. It's in the past.
April 27, 2008, 7:35:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
Olby wishes there was a feud between him and O'Reilly because that would make him relevant. As it stands, O'Reilly ignores him which infuriates Olby who would benefit from any mention of his name on the #1 cable news show in existence.
April 27, 2008, 7:41:49 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Mike Chimeri
That was my point: it's a one-sided feud. So, to Craig, whom I've liked since his days at "The Drew Carey Show," it isn't sexual tension as much as it's sexual harrassment, if you know what I mean. (If anyone here doesn't know what I mean, the "sexual tension" line implies they're feuding while my "sexual harrassment" line implies Olby is harrassing BOR and he isn't acknowledging it.)
April 27, 2008, 8:30:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Fox Fan
The explanation was necessary, Mike. Point well made.
April 27, 2008, 8:39:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
I don't know what Megyn Kelly was thinking with that dress. It looks too lingerie-like.
April 27, 2008, 9:14:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Damail
Oh my gosh, that Watkins is a total disgrace.
April 27, 2008, 9:47:51 PM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
"Penopbscot, why do you continually contort yourself in such long torturous NON answers?"
 
The only thing I find "torturous" here is what's on and off topic. 
 
Since, whether J$ bans me outright or not, this is my last post for a while (other than saying good-bye to J$ personally) what the heck...
 
I think the house of cards you're building is the assumption I believe Rev. Wright was taken out of context. I've said nothing of the kind in this thread nor is it my contention now. The only thing I mentioned was the media data-mining the sensational stuff which isn't the same thing.
 
So I have no compelling urge to research his quotes. And, if I did, I wouldn't use your biased source any more than you'd go to an Air America link even if I swore on a stack of Bibles the reference material was pristine.
 
But let's cut through all the bull to what's really going on here. As I pointed out, a Zogby poll (I believe it was of Penn. voters before their primary) showed only conservatives really care about the issue.
 
So why are they worked up and nobody else? Could their angst be aided by biased media coverage? I know I've seen Fox News obsess over it. And with many of Fox News' personalities active on right-wing talk radio I'm sure it's all the buzz there too. 
 
For example, I blogged on O'Reilly on "The O'Reilly Factor" working hard to keep the story alive. XM ran an ad tonight of Gibby going to town on the issue on his radio show.
 
So the answer is probably yes.
 
Since these sources don't hold much credibility with me don't expect me to share your outrage.
 
If Rev. Wright weren't Obama's minister would anyone care about his offensive rantings? Doubtful.
 
Deflating the endless guilt by association media hype is pretty simple. 
 
The issues are what's Wright's influence over Obama and why didn't Obama quit his church?
 
Let's address the first question. Do you think Obama believes, for example, AIDS is a government plot targeting African-Americans? I certainly don't. Go down the list.
 
I see nothing here to merit all the hype.
 
So what about Obama's continued membership? My understanding is Wright's influential Chicago church was an important springboard for Obama's career as community activist and in-state politician.
 
Does that merit all the attention? If so, let's spend some time looking into, say, McCain's enforcement by Hagee, a preacher who thinks Hitler's antisemitism was the result of his Catholic upbringing.
 
Not interested? I didn't think so. I'm not either.
 
IMHO, Obama denouncing Wright's statements should have ended the media's obsession but, of course, it hasn't.
 
Partisans love this stuff and the media selectively plays along. And they call it "news."
.
April 28, 2008, 12:01:15 AM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
"Wrong. The salient point that goes to the issue of cable news, is that Olbermann devoted a discussion to it . Rush Limbaugh? Not on topic."
 
Baloney.
 
You provide a link to right-wing Newsbusters distorting the issue. Correcting the distortion is off-topic?
 
Maybe I should switch ideologies. Liberal-bashing will always be on-topic. 
 
"A final warning. Attacking me based on your Kreskin-like reading of my innermost "biases"? On this thread: not on topic."
 
You're right. It is a final warning for a while. I'm taking an extended vacation.
 
Take care, guy. It's been fun.

Edited By Siteowner
April 28, 2008, 12:09:55 AM EDT – Like – Reply


johnny dollar
> Correcting the distortion is off-topic?
 
Did you not read what I wrote or are you just cherry-picking what you want to address? I specifically WROTE that discussions on cable news topic do tend to expand to the substance of the issues in question. So your attempt to correct the "distortion" is not off topic, and I never said it was. What IS off-topic is your constant whining about what you claim my biases are, which has nothing to do with an open thread on cable news. Hence, a fair portion of your message has been edited out.
April 28, 2008, 12:14:01 AM EDT – Like – Reply


sknabt
"McCain's enforcement by Hagee"
 
Obviously, I got click happy with my spell checker. I meant endorsement. 
 
Okay... this really is good-bye.  
.
April 28, 2008, 12:15:35 AM EDT – Like – Reply


VinceP1974
Since Obama's supporters think nothing of Obama emersing himself and his family in hateful Black Liberation Theology, why do they keep talking about Hagee. I dont understand.
April 28, 2008, 12:25:43 AM EDT – Like – Reply


sharm
On the surface, Obama supporters should be happy with Hagee's endorsement. It would seem that the endorsement would cause McCain to lose the Catholic vote. But it has been quite some time since large numbers of Catholics vote in defense of their faith so why would it matter that Hagee calls the Church the whore of Babylon? Comparing the numbers, McCain probably figured he would lose more votes by refusing the endorsement.
 
McCain seems to have succeeded in getting Hagee to back off the Katrina comments. Maybe Hagee will next downgrade the description of the Catholic Church to the "promiscuous woman of Babylon." 
 
Why doesn't KO have McCain on Countdown to discuss the issue ?
 
[Keith Olbermann Encourages Questions About John McCain’s Relationship with Rev. John Hagee]
http://glaadorg.nexcess.net/2008/04/keith-olbermann-encourages-que.html
April 28, 2008, 1:27:36 AM EDT – Like – Reply


VinceP1974
I love when people who hate the Catholic Church are now acting all offended on its behalf.
April 28, 2008, 1:33:58 AM EDT – Like – Reply


Cecelia
BTW, Mike, as to Craig Ferguson, anyone Scottish can't be all bad...
April 28, 2008, 4:00:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply


Grammie
Anyone want to help me set the line on when Penobscot will reappear?
 
I'll take any and all bets that he wont be gone for long.
 
Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen!
April 28, 2008, 6:58:50 PM EDT – Like – Reply