Weekend Links & Open Thread
Sunday cable news links [updated through the day]:
The New York Times strikes back.
FNC goes commercial-free.
NBCU wins Weather. Hello, Al Roker?
Leave no one behind.
Dirty laundry: video.
Sunday talkers.
In defense of satire.
Deep diversity thoughts.
Denver dilemma.
Murdoch's Obama conspiracy?!
Fox News bias exposed!
Q&A: Wolf Blitzer (via ICN).
Specials: Larry Elder, Heather Nauert.
Greta questions CNN's honesty. Reax: Sklar. Sinclairiacs target Greta.
CNN's "independence" promo.
Cable news sleeper hit.
Baghdad heat. A Baghdad 4th. An MSNBC 4th.
Misogynist Joe? Video.
Use our valuable bandwidth to post your comments on any and all cable news topics in this weekend's open thread. Standard rules apply. fox news cablenews
Ashley
Greta hit a homerun with that article. She easily debunks the "Missing Person of the Night" garbage.
How about CNN spending $27 Million to give us "Anderson Cooper - Not my Boo". What the heck is a boo? I used to think the biggest dopes worked at MSBHO, now I'm not so sure.
Happy Independence Day to everyone hanging out here at Johnny Dollars Place. We Americans live in the greatest country in the world and don't let any nitwit tell you otherwise.
July 4, 2008, 1:58:47 AM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Oh,no. Not another cable news pissing match.
Greta says;"we do everything that CNN does but we are not taking swipes and trying to make less of them."
She then proceeds to do just that, mocking "Boo" shirts,$27 million in advertising,and her staff of 12 beating their staff of 60. (Your's is bigger but mine is better.)
So if I watched Greta every night I would hear about Iraq and oil prices,ethanol subsidies and Republican filibusters,SCOTUS and FARC,nuclear proliferation and NIE's?A complete and occasionally in-depth survey of the days news with a minimum of "If it bleeds,it leads" filler.Then I'll have to watch if I ever get a chance.
July 4, 2008, 9:11:05 AM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
Let me guess, you watch prison blocks on mskos, instead? Or, catching some pre-op tranny stuff on bbc?
July 4, 2008, 10:15:07 AM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
I see the Greta story has now appeared, some ten hours after we posted it, at TVN and HuffPo. It would've been nice to have been given an acknowledgment or hat tip but things don't always work that way in the blogosphere. Oh well, at least our readers know who spotted this story hours before anyone else. Happy 4th, all.
July 4, 2008, 11:20:07 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Greta didn't just take a swipe at Cooper, she responded to his (seemingly jealousy based) swipe at her.
She says at the beginning: "Do take note: I did not fire first. I have been doing my own job and not insulting them or trying to make less of them. They fired first and I am responding as I am sure you would do likewise." Yes, I would.
Greta does cover the news, nvh. CNN lied and you believed it!
-----------------------------------
Excellent sentiment, Ashley.
July 4, 2008, 11:24:56 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Good job as usual johnny and happy 4th! Can't wait to BBQ and blow stuff up tonight!
July 4, 2008, 11:26:23 AM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
I'll have to watch if I ever get a chance.
notveryhow | 07.04.08 - 9:16 am | #
How do you ridicule something you've never watched? See wht happens when you get your "info" from 'newshounds?'
Happy Independence Day!
July 4, 2008, 11:37:38 AM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
CNN lied and you believed it!
When did I ever say I believed it?I've heard on this blog that Greta 'sometimes' covers politics.I then asked a question to which I don't know the answer.Does anyone care to answer it.
oblio | Homepage | 07.04.08 - 11:42 am |
When did I "ridicule" Greta's show?
Thought for the 4th.
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."
Sen Carl Shurz
July 4, 2008, 12:20:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply
vstol
OS: "How do you ridicule something you've never watched?"
Rhetorical question, right?
Knowledge and facts are immaterial when criticizing conservatives, Republicans, the right or a cable news network that doesn't kowtow to the left.
July 4, 2008, 12:23:35 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
To answer your question nvh, yes, you would see some of those topics covered on The Record. Greta tends to focus more on news about people than news about things, but that doesn't make it "not a news program" as Cooper pontificated. It was a petty and jealous thing to say, and Greta was right on in defending herself.
July 4, 2008, 1:54:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
My bad- Cooper's producer pontificated by proxy.
July 4, 2008, 1:56:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Regarding the article and video on Joe:
Maddow was being deliberately annoying with her inappropriate laughter. She deserved whatever dissing she got.
July 4, 2008, 2:21:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
I then asked a question to which I don't know the answer.Does anyone care to answer it.
Usually, NVH, when people ask questions they put a question mark at the end of the sentence. I have read and reread your post, and I can't find a single question mark. My eyes are a little bad. Would you be kind enough to point out the question marks in your first post on this thread? (note the question mark at the end of my last sentence)
July 4, 2008, 2:58:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
So if I watched Greta every night I would hear about Iraq and oil prices,ethanol subsidies and Republican filibusters,SCOTUS and FARC,nuclear proliferation and NIE's?
by nvh/otm
Here's her question. It's loaded with sarcasm, but, it doe have a ? a the end of it......
July 4, 2008, 5:53:51 PM EDT – Like – Reply
vstol
I did notice this question mark, "...and NIE's?A complete and...," but let the poor writing pass, as well as the absence of a question mark in, ".Does anyone care to answer it."
The answer is , YES.
Now, nvh,
Would you care to answer OS's question, "How do you ridicule something you've never watched?"
If you wish to claim your: notveryhow | 07.04.08 - 9:16 am | # is not "ridicule," perhaps you could either explain how it was meant or restate in a clearer fashion.
Thanks,
HAPPY FOURTH!
To all who wear or who have worn the ubiform, thank you for your service.
July 4, 2008, 6:14:30 PM EDT – Like – Reply
vstol
ubiform should be uniform, but y'all knew that
July 4, 2008, 6:16:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Truthfully, I did not spot the question mark before I wrote my previous post. When you end a sentence with an acronym put in a question mark and then without a space begin another sentence with a one-letter word, you should not wonder that people may have missed your question. Beginning your question with "would I" . . . rather than "I would" . . . would also help other posters to notice your question.
To respond to your single question (as delineated by OS) NVH , the answer can be found in Greta's article. She does, in fact, have a news segment in her show. So, all of the stuff you asked about would be covered in her news segment whenever those items are in the news.
Hope that helps.
July 4, 2008, 6:56:40 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I thought I answered the question at 1:59, but good answer danny.
It sounds like a war zone around here. (In Gutfeld voice) Explosions!
July 4, 2008, 10:12:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Eric
LOL. Anyone watch Fox yesterday when one of the hosts said, without paraphasing or quoting someone else that quote, "A giant of American freedom died today".
LOL. Great objectivity. A racist nutcase who was still referring to African-Americans as "negroes" into the 1990's and "tried to make Sen. Carol Braun cry", in his own words, by singing the happy-slave-life Dixie in her face in an elevator. The man was a frothing at the mouth fanatic. Only partisan Republicans could make such a statement about Helms. He never even won more than 55% of the vote in NC, a strong Republican state.
July 5, 2008, 1:17:40 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
Yeah Eric - NC hated him, they kept reelecting him again and again and again. And yes, I would like fries with that.
July 5, 2008, 2:21:26 AM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
No Eric, I didn't watch it. I had other things to do on the Fourth of July than watching a particular channel all day in the hope that someone might say something that I might use against them. Maybe it is just me, but I would have thought that would be a dismal (even pathetic) way to spend the Fourth.
Considering your track record, Eric,I have no idea whether what you said actually happened. I guess it is just as well I don't know; because I would be absolutely mortified if I knew that some unnamed Fox host in some unspecified context may have said something overly nice about a former multi-term U.S. Senator on the day of his death.
July 5, 2008, 2:51:33 AM EDT – Like – Reply
rush
My god you people really need to unwad your panties especially you johnny
July 5, 2008, 6:47:46 AM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Eric | 07.05.08 - 1:22 am |
Did somebody actually say that?
I remember the Carol Mosley Brown episode. It took a real classy woman to not kick him square in the 'nads. My first thought was,"What next, is he gonna corner Joe Lieberman and sing "Duetchland uber alles"."
Sorry about the lack of a question mark.My edit function went out on strike with the "Detroit Free Press" and never came back.Also,my R pinkie was broken when I worked in the foundry,and healed at a 45 degree angle.Or maybe I'm just inattentive.
And then there was Larry Elder.I've noticed this spreading norm on Cable News" to bring in radio talk show hosts as anchors/commenters.It truly wonders me what it is about talk radio that confers expertise on anything other than talking on the radio.
July 5, 2008, 9:09:29 AM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
i'm not inclinced to let this Helms discussion distract any furrther, for several reasons. 1. The man just died. B. It is pretty irrelevant to cable news. One could cite all the lionizing and praise of Sen Kennedy when his brain tumor was revealed, bring up the fact that he killed a woman, and then chortle "great objectivity". That's really an infantile argument. And the comparison is even more telling than that, since we know Kopechne was killed by Kennedy. The only thing we know about whistling (or singing, the story sometimes varies) Dixie is what Braun claimed in a stemwinder speech to the Urban League one day, having never reported any such unpleasant incident to the Senate Ethics Committee, or anyone else, before then. So it's a dubious issue to bring up 24 hours after someone dies, not to mention being quite irrelevant to cable news issues.
Ergo, no further talk of Jesse Helms.
July 5, 2008, 11:10:32 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Sarah P
Thanks for putting this segment of Red Eye, it had all of us in stitches.
Great, great as usual.
July 5, 2008, 11:25:34 AM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Once again NVH you completely lost me. Why would successful experience in radio commentary not help qualify someone to do TV commentary? To host a successful talk show you must be able the think quickly and you must be able to discuss a wide range of subjects. You have experience in living and dying by ratings, which is the same dynamic as what you face in TV.
Beyond his radio experience: Elder has academic credentials and experiential credentials which exceed most who are in the industry. He has even had previous experience hosting an award winning cable news show.
So what the hell is your point?
July 5, 2008, 2:10:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
[anon]
[message deleted for rules violation: language, name-calling, personal attack]
Edited By Siteowner
July 5, 2008, 2:52:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
So what the hell is your point?
danny | 07.05.08 - 2:15 pm | #
Her point was she disagrees with him. Nothing more.
July 5, 2008, 5:25:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
danny | 07.05.08 - 2:15 pm |
You know,and I know,that a successful radio talk show host needs to have a sharp ideological edge. And it seems that is what Larry Elders brings to the table at Fox.From a glance at his web site, I don't think he is going to be bringing a new perspective.
I guess it boils down to what on expects from a "News" show. After a few viewings,I gave up watching "Crossfire" because it seemed a waste of my time.The argument WAS the point of the show,not the exchange of information.I fear that Mr Elders will fall into the same catagory of "confrontation" shows,like Crossfire,but lacking even ideological balance.
July 5, 2008, 5:48:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
Opinion/analysis/interview shows on cable news really owe a lot to talk radio. Leaving aside straight newscasts, interview shows (like Larry King), analysis (O'Reilly, Dobbs, Abrams), and debate (H&C) are to a large extent talk radio done on television. Larry King came to cable news from talk radio. So did 'Crossfire' which started as a talk radio show. Other than the call-in element, radio talk shows are not that different from cable news talk shows. It's no surprise that talent tends to move from one to the other.
July 5, 2008, 6:05:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
It truly wonders me what it is about talk radio that confers expertise on anything other than talking on the radio.
notveryhow | 07.05.08 - 9:14 am | #
This comment is baffling. Everyone knows (well, almost everyone) that radio is a stepping stone to tv. Some succesfully cross, some don't. You go, Larry!
July 5, 2008, 7:36:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply
puck30
It truly wonders me what it is about talk radio that confers expertise on anything other than talking on the radio.
notveryhow
I am guessing that would also include Rachel Mandow right? Yes, she doesn't have a show on A-Mess but does appear daily as an expert on something. And she comes from talk radio! Radio no one listens to but talk radio just the same.
July 5, 2008, 8:28:43 PM EDT – Like – Reply
puck30
but lacking even ideological balance.
notveryhow | 07.05.08 - 5:53 pm | #
Keith Olbermann has done stints on radio. And one look at his show and you can see there's no ideological balance.
Correction: I meant Maddow, not Mandow.
July 5, 2008, 8:32:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
You have to factor into Elder's credentials that he not only has tv cable experience but he also won an award for a previous cable TV show.
The Larry Elder Show and moved to the local Fox Network affiliate WOIO and cable TV. Goulden and Elder won the Ohio Cable Television Association's "Best Program Series Award" in 1992 for their work on the show, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Elder
Elder's credentials look really good to me. Fox would be foolish not to give him an opportunity to show what he can do.
July 5, 2008, 8:56:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Kirk G
I also have noticed that Fox is covering Obama speeches start to finish and just cuts of McCain's. I get a heads up on Fox saying "McCain to speak" at such and such a time and I go to CNN to get his whole speach.
July 5, 2008, 10:30:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I noticed the same thing and have started switching channels when speeches finish on Fox. FNC usually has the best picture and audio quality so I'll watch that until they cut to discussion, then I'll swap to CNN who tends to wait longer for discussion.
Don't get me wrong, CNN sucks, but I'll take it for a few minutes in a pinch.
July 5, 2008, 10:50:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
McCain speeches, that is. Obama speeches go start to finish as Kirk described.
July 5, 2008, 11:01:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
All I can do is chuckle about the "outrage" over the 2 nyt writers getting their teeth yellowed. They can sure dish it out, but, they surely have a hard time takin' it! Remember "Betrayus?" Shut your pie holes, old york times!
July 6, 2008, 1:10:29 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
When I saw the faces cut and pasted on animals, I immediately thought Doocy. Every guy has had a bud who bends over laughing over a fart joke. Doocy's humor: juvenile, vaguely inappropriate, not funny, but harmless. A self-victimization if you will.
The changed faces were more disturbing. My first reaction was this was some sort of plaigirism from the pages of Der Strümer, an appalling anti-Semitism. Then, reason overtook me. The same vein as Doocy's humor, just highly inappropriate and not in the least witty.
And before members of the Nitwit Militia come after me, this type of humor is just as misplaced when done by anyone. Keep it in the frat house!
July 6, 2008, 12:44:54 PM EDT – Like – Reply
vstol
"And before members of the Nitwit Militia come after me..."Mark | 07.06.08 - 12:49 pm | #
Not sure if this is meant to be highly inappropriate humor or just highly inappropriate.
Please clarify.
July 6, 2008, 1:50:36 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
It sounds to me like either a personal attack or some sort of name calling. So perhaps a clarification is in order.
July 6, 2008, 1:58:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Neither.
Just referring to the people who predictably and repeatedly say, "But X, Y and Z do it, too, so it's OK if A, B and C, do it." In other words, a call for a high, absolute standard and not a feeble relative excuse for misbehavior. Preemptive. If you care enough to be concerned about it, as you obviously do, you are maintaining the standard. We want to be known as a group who does just that, I should think.
July 6, 2008, 2:26:36 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
I expect to see an ass chewin' posted on your favorite olby fan blog, ok? He's been doin' it for yrs. Let us know when it's posted, ok?
July 6, 2008, 3:46:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I personally find juvenile, highly (not just vaguely) inappropriate humor to be the funniest kind. Don't really know what any of you are talking about.
July 6, 2008, 5:01:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
The doctored photos of the NYT reporters that Doocy found so laughable, FF. I don't hold what Doocy says and does against FNC, however. FNC has its Doocy and Hannity. MSNBC has its Matthews and Olbermann. CNN has its Beck and Dobbs. Can you imagine if we reduced all three to the lowest common denominators? As for the Nitwit Militia, the volley was served and the return didn't leave the opposing trench, so enough said.
July 6, 2008, 6:28:30 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
BTW, FF, by a stroke of luck, actually a flight cancellation and rebooking, I ended up not at some dreary wedding of a dreary cousin in a dreary inland California town for the 4th, but in Ixtapa. Thank goodness for US airline inefficiency! I have just picked up on your thread about coverage of the speeches. I do think you are absolutely correct, although I have caught MSNBC interrupting its coverage of a McCain speech to go to an Obama speech, and I have seen CNN cut away from McCain to return to regular programming. I suppose a cynic on one side could say, "In the tank for Obama.," and a cynic on the other side could say, "FNC is cutting away because the McCain speech is so awful.," (thereby helping him). I don't think it is either. But, do you have some sense that the formal McCain speches are so awful that the networks are cutting away? The campaign seems to realize it has a problem. I am given to understand that the Sedona hiatus included teleprompter training sessions. Do you have some sense why FNC, in particular, is cutting away?
July 6, 2008, 6:38:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Danny
Come on Mark. Spare me. The person who was busted a few days ago for juvenile behavior in this forum . . . the person who began calling people he/she disagreed with silly, childish names . . . that person is now complaining about what he/she considers to be juvenile behavior on cable tv news.
Maybe I could take barely take someone else's discourse on this (trivial) subject seriously . . . but not you.
July 6, 2008, 7:53:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I understand the topic of discussion, the doctored photos, but what I don't understand is the outrage on the liberal side of the blogosphere. It's a hypocritical outrage that has far more offenders on the left, which is why it's so easy to say 1, 2, and 3 do it. Search for Bush cartoon or Bush monkey and see the rabbit hole you get sucked into, it's rampantly perpetuated by the same people that are "outraged" over the NYT doctored pics.
Re: FNC cutting short McCain speeches and showing the Obama ones in full. I don't think it's out of embarrassment that McCain doesn't get as much coverage by Fox (or anybody else). I think everyone knows his positions, but Obama is cloudy on his policies and intentions at best. Yes, they both have made changes in opinion over the years on one issue or another and people will question their records on those, but Obama has a lot more questions than answers. That might be a reason, just a wild guess.
July 6, 2008, 8:03:40 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Oh, congrats on the luck with the change in schedule Mark. Hope that dreary cousin isn't aware of your frequently visited comment areas! Oh well, as if he's going to be reading blogs tonight...
July 6, 2008, 8:06:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Danny:
As I indicated in my earlier post, my first reaction to the Steinberg caricature was that it was anti-Semitic, more a parody of Nazi propoganda than anything else. That seemed over-blown on reflection, however. Then, I read the NYT piece, and I realized that my action was not unique, that others, perhaps many others shared it. I am not going to ascribe motives to some juvenile, goonish Photoshop plaigirist. I am going to assume he or she just has a highly warped sense of humor and is wholly ahistorical.
I might add that when a transparent ringer decides not to deal with the substantive issue but rather to reach deep into a grimmy bag of invictive, I feel the substantive point has prevailed. This is an important point, so that pleases me as much as your insults of me do. I fully realize that I am onto something very important here, and that I am a voice well enough respected to warrant your very special attention.
Having said that, I do want to add, as not to broadly slander FNC, I realize that this was the work of a couple of twsited minds at FNC, helped along by an on-air clown, and not a reflection of the network as a whole. I do hope the offending propoganda caricature artist is encouraged to find a new home. That would reflect well upon FNC.
Cue Ashley.
July 6, 2008, 8:14:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Missy
Forgive me, but WTH is David Carr talking about? What is it with these libs that they have to drone on, paragraph after paragraph, using all of their "literary" skills (including rambling, run-on sentences) to set up a story?
I bailed out after the third paragraph, and scanned the rest. Just another hit piece on Fox News. But do their lib readers actually have time to read all this drivel? Sure, I've got time; I'm posting on boards all the time. But who wants to waste it reading ONE article when all the author wants to do is prove that he got a dictionary for Christmas!
July 6, 2008, 8:26:52 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Interesting point, Danny.
We're actually fairly lucky this election cycle. Often, I have difficulty with both of the candidates. This time, I'm fine with either, my obvious preference notwithstanding.
The news folks have a difficult task, however, with Obama's charisma, and McCain's lack thereof, with the PC buttons involved, with positions which seem to merge then diverge then merge again.
July 6, 2008, 8:34:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
From the NYT hit piece:
"Fox News found a huge runway and enormous success by setting aside the conventions of bloodless objectivity"
I wonder if the writer reads his own paper much. NYT fits that description to a T, aside from the enormous success part.
July 6, 2008, 8:57:43 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Well, of course many others managed to strain and see a caricature of a caricatrue, Mark...
Making a mountain out of a molehill has become a veritable cottage industry in our culture.
July 6, 2008, 9:03:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
No kidding, Cece. Some pictures edited to make fun of someone on a light hearted morning show become an instant controversy just because they were on Fox, despite the fact that everybody does it. Very selective outrage.
July 6, 2008, 9:10:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
As for the Nitwit Militia, the volley was served and the return didn't leave the opposing trench, so enough said.
Mark | 07.06.08 - 6:33 pm | #
just our daily dose of hypocrisy....
July 6, 2008, 11:41:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Missy, you should have steeled yourself and continued reading.Interesting article.
When these photos first appeared,the anti-Semitic implications did not occur to me.Truth be told,I'm not sure I did more than glance at them.It seemed just another low-brow trick from a source where I've come to expect a diminished standard of professionalism.But on reexamination,I can see why these questions of anti-Semitism would arise. I wonder if the artist was familiar with the racist propoganda of this era of German history.
"I understand the topic of discussion, the doctored photos, but what I don't understand is the outrage"
FF,perhaps you should take a look at the propoganda posters that are at the root of the anti-Semitism complaints before you rule it out.
The Carr piece is thought provoking.Fox takes it's political attack dog tactics to the media arena.Gunning against the media to control coverage may be useful in the short term.But it will come back to haunt you.Ask Nixon.
Bottom line is that most serious news consumers recognize Fox for what it is,and what it does. The NYT,for as much as some attack it,continues to be recognized as one of the best news sources.Take note that when Cheney planted a story (via Judith Miller) which he then refered to in a speech,he did not leak it to Fox News.
July 7, 2008, 6:43:19 AM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
For the curious,a link to der Strumer cartoons.
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/sturmer.htm
July 7, 2008, 7:03:12 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Let me get this straight, nvh. Nobody can photoshop a Jewish person to have a big nose if they're trying to make them look silly? What else is out of bounds, narrowing eyes of Asians? making big round eyes of Europeans? Where does it stop? The PC culture is lost on me and anyone else with a lick of common sense or a sense of humor.
None of the Jewish people that I know or work with have big noses. Just goes to show you that the PC nitwits buy into the stereotypes more than the people who roll with the punches. Grow a spine and drop the pansy-ass PC mentality.
July 7, 2008, 7:07:35 AM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Don't argue with me.I'm not saying I share those sentiments.Only that I can understand why a Jew might suspect that.Why don't you ask your Jewish acquaintances what they think of creating a characticture of a Jewish man by broadening his nose and yellowing his teeth?
In this era where suggesting that AIPAC has political strength disproportionate to thier size is considered anti-Semitic,where suggesting that Palestinians have gotten a raw deal is considered anti-Semitic, and suggesting that the government of Israel is not always right is considered anti-Semitic, I'd have expected more sensitivity on your part.
As for pansies.Since they're biennials,I start them in mid-July,and transplant them into the vegetable garden late August.Grow them out under row covers,and come mid-march I have stocky,hardened 6 in plants ready for transplanting to the flower beds.
July 7, 2008, 8:00:32 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Good perspective, NVH. I think it is possible to be appalled at the "cartoon" without being tedious and picayune. The reasonable approach to me:
This was hideous. Mimicry of horrendous, race-baiting "pornography" of the late 20's to mid 40's. Completely out of place in any legitimate venue.
This was the creation of someone who intended to make a joke, but lacked the historical knowledge and perspective to realize that the joke was in the worst possible taste. Instead of being humorous, this ended up being crass, vile and troubling.
The creation was shared by someone who felt it was funny, but who, himself, lacks class, taste and discretion.
Everyone makes bad jokes which he or she later regret. It would be a mistake to turn this into a anti-Semitic, blanket condemnation. Let this be lesson for ALL of us, and this unfortunate episode could be turned into something positive. FNC would probably do a world of good if it owned up to this and turned it into a history and object lesson. Perhaps, a 5 day suspension, without pay, for the creator, Doocy and Kilmeade, suspended, pending completion of some ethnic sensitivity course and a short, candid discussion during F&F one morning.
July 7, 2008, 8:42:22 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Let's see, nvh. You thought it overblown to suggest that what is a common left wing theme (found even in the the NYT) that a neocon cabal (comprised overwhelmingly of Jews) of elites in prominient literary and govt ranks, wish to usurp U.S. foreign policy to the benefit of a foreign power (Israel) might just play toward the familiar and old antisemitic theme of Jews taking over a nation (and Palestine...and now going for the world).... but a caricature of a NYT writer by a cable morning show smacks of antisemitic Nazi tactics...
Well, you certainly pick your hyperbole conveniently, nvh.
As to "most people" knowing what FNC is about as compared to the NYT, MOST people get their news from you know where.... as compared to the NYT. So when you may want to mitigate that statement into something that substitutes for "most people".... say...smart people as compared to the hick masses know what FNC is really as compared to the fair and balanced... New York Times...etc.
You'll cause guffaws far and wide there too, but hey...that sort of analysis is certainly convenient too...
July 7, 2008, 8:50:22 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
As to "most people" knowing what FNC is about as compared to the NYT, MOST people get their news from you know where.... as compared to the NYT.
---
Not strictly true. If the NYT hard copy circulation figures are 1.1M/daily and 1.6M/Sunday, and daily premium website hits are .39, and you add in millions of service source reprints in other major dailies, then "most people" would seem to be hyperbole. Actually, simply wrong. In fact, more people watch "Sponge Bob Square Pants" than FNC or than read the NYT. Moreover, broadcast news still dominates cable news and print news, doesn't it? Isn't it that rather low viewership, relatively, that allows FNC get by with something like the Despicable Doocy's desipicable photoshopping?
July 7, 2008, 9:23:47 AM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Be specific.WHO wrote that?Who said that???WHO are you talking about???
Sounds very much to me like you have bought into the entire strawman argument about liberals and the neocons.This straw man is a great way to not have to address a valid argument. One simply labels the arguer anti-Semitic.
AIPAC is a lobby,like any other.They have an agenda, which does not always coincide with the agenda of the government of Israel.Are you arguing that they have NO influence? Why is it anti-Semitic to suggest that AIPAC has a disproportionate amount of influence. given their size?Please show me where this statement that I just made implies or suggests that I am appealing to anti-Semitic fears of Jews taking over the world.I am so sick of this tactic.What do you think of the Urban League?The NAACP? If you have criticisms of these organiozations,does that make you a racist?
July 7, 2008, 9:34:21 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
NVH and Clucker, why don't you show us examples of the vile Nazi propoganda using similiar posters and pictures pictures from Nazi germany that are visually indistinguisable or clearly very like the F&F photos.
From what I have seen and remember of Nazi propaganda against Jews and other groups these photos don't have much, if anything, in common with Nazi techniques that dehumaized not only Jews but also Gypsies, Slavs, Serbs etc.
I didn't see the supposed ethnic slur when I first saw the Photos nor do I see it now. However, I would be persuaded by some actual examples that Fox's photos mimic
July 7, 2008, 9:35:24 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
At 0708 Hours on 070708, above, you were provided a very easy to use link by NVH.
July 7, 2008, 9:42:46 AM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Grammie,
Did you look at the link above?And there is much more available on-line.Although truth be told,it was more a question of 'style' than a replication.
From my 8:05 post? "Don't argue with me.I'm not saying I share those sentiments.Only that I can understand why a Jew might suspect that.Why don't you ask your Jewish acquaintances what they think of creating a characticture of a Jewish man by broadening his nose and yellowing his teeth?"
BTW,are you a pansy fan too?
July 7, 2008, 9:46:14 AM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
Who knew jews had yellow teeth and who knew coloring someones teeth would cause so much hypocritical outrage from the ususal suspect? Nothing better to blow out of proportion, these days?
July 7, 2008, 10:09:12 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
What you referenced is what I remembered of Nazi propoganda except I didn't notice any clips from movies, news reels etc. It might be there but this is your proof so I expect you to lead me to it rather then my having to rumage through the entire site.
So, exactly what do you see that is either blatantly or somewhat subtlely in common between your reference and F&F's photos. Also, is there any commonality between Nazi and Fox rhetoric re this?
Make your case and give us examples. You are the ones who claimed to have immediately thought how the whole segment used a few photos to mirror Nazi propoganda and you were not alone in your original assessment.
July 7, 2008, 10:29:20 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
You're absolutely right. We should not be concerned with racisim or anti-Semitism. They are unimportant. Our concern should always be directed towards Olbermann's skin tint on any given day. Thank you for the much-needed perspective.
July 7, 2008, 10:31:02 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
I won't presume to speak for NVH, Mrs. Hawkins, but if the link materials were insufficient for you, nothing will be. As you might remember, the typical Jewish male tended to be portrayed with a highly exaggerated, yellow teeth with large spaces (both in the doctored photos), bloated, hair plastered down, leecherous look in the eyes. Perhaps, it was because of some hyper-sensitivity due to my very recent heritage that made me so taken back by the doctored photo. I recoiled, but others obviously accepted this as standard operating procedure. I am saddened by that, but I am not enraged.
July 7, 2008, 10:38:48 AM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
You are the ones who claimed to have immediately thought how the whole segment used a few photos to mirror Nazi propoganda and you were not alone in your original assessment.
Grammie | 07.07.08 - 10:34 am |
I am not going to argue that because I never wrote,stated or implied any of the above. My God,I've been made into a strawman while I'm in the room,so to speak.
But I'd really rather talk about pansys, or pansy ass as FF calls them.What do you think about the solid color hybrids.I'vew heard that they're not real strong performers.
July 7, 2008, 11:02:00 AM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
FNC has its Doocy and Hannity. MSNBC has its Matthews and Olbermann. CNN has its Beck and Dobbs.
by nvh/otm/dqr
I recoiled, but others obviously accepted this as standard operating procedure. I am saddened by that, but I am not enraged.
by nvh/otm/dqr
????
July 7, 2008, 11:26:40 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
You presented what you thought, an Clucker certainly agreed with, what you seemed to believe is proof that it was reasonable to equate the F&F segment with Nazi propoganda.
All I asked, and am still asking, is that you show us a concrete example of the strong similarity that you perceived.
Point out just one of the Nazi propoganda piece that F&F's photo and rehoric could be used to replace any part of an original in any way with Nazi propoganda and I will concede the point.
As for pansies, I am quite sure that you are definitely more intimately aware and knowledgable of them than I am simply b/c I no interest in "pansies".
July 7, 2008, 11:49:53 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
I can't speak for NVH or DQR (who I have never seen post here), but, for myself, I agree with you. The English language, even in its simplest form, can be very difficult to understand. The former are the lowest common denominators of their respective network's on-air personalities, and I generally disregard the lowest and the highest to determine a median quality ranking. The latter is a lament that our society, more as reflected in cable news than inspired by cable news, has become coarse and ahistorical.
July 7, 2008, 11:53:50 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
I can't speak for NVH, but I have been on these treadmills with you before, Mrs. Hawkins, and I know your request is not serious. Perhaps, NVH will oblige, but my time can be better spent. In point of fact, we're down to the hard core enablers now, and I don't intend to discuss this matter further.
July 7, 2008, 12:08:11 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
Mission accomplished, grammie. She has no proof.
July 7, 2008, 12:34:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
I assure anyone who doubts my sincerity that the request for some evience to justify the linking of the F&F segment/photos is as serious as a heart attack.
Just one example from Nazi Propoganda that is comparable to F&F in this instance. I see the "yellow teeth" aspect has been mentioned over and over both here and elsewhere as very depositive although for the life of me I can't think of any Nazi Propoganda that was done in color much less yellow teeth as a marker for Jews.
If you decline to offer evidence to link the two I will have to assume that it is the sameo sameo, blowing smoke out of the wrong orifice. When blowing smoke out of the wrong orifice coming up with any concrete proof could very well feel like a tredmill to the smoke blower.
July 7, 2008, 1:06:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
On the mark, grammie.
July 7, 2008, 1:23:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters/bols.jpg
You will note that this is in color.But I do not offer it as proof of anything other than it is in color.Proof such as you demand does not exist.How can one prove that a style of caracticture suggests to some that it resembles the style of caracticture used by Nazi propoganda artists?I believe that you can't see it.Can you believe that others do?
How about dahlias.
July 7, 2008, 2:28:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
nvh,
What do you mean a "strawman" with the neocon thing?
Aren't you the guy who thought it overblown that anyone would find an implication of antisemitism in neocon cabal theories that link Jewish govt leaders with prominent media pundits who are Jewish in hatching U.S. policy that is favorable to Israel?
Aren't you the guy who described al video DIRECTLY linking Bill O'Reilly to Hitler as merely being "funny"?
Now here you are waxing forth on being reminded of Nazi tactics towards Jews during WWII all because of two caricatures of two NYT reporters for goodness sake!
July 7, 2008, 2:28:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Grammie | 07.07.08 - 1:11 pm |
If I can find yellow teeth,will you then believe that other people see a resemblance??
July 7, 2008, 2:29:25 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Well, Mark, you've certainly made a hash out of my retort to nvh over his ridiculous remark essentially saying that "most people" hold his views about FNC as compared to the NYT.
Your specious remarks about the popularity of Sponge Bob and network news aside, if you want to act as though I made an argument on the basis of "most people" instead of one with the parameters of FNC vs the NYT, then perhaps we should consider FNC's international audience as well.
sheesh!
July 7, 2008, 2:35:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Cecelia | 07.07.08 - 2:33 pm |
What is "neocon cabal theory"? Be specific.
Are there links between AIPAC and Israeli government leaders?I don't know for sure,but I would certainly hope so.They're a bright bunch of guys and seeing as their agendas are similar,it would only make sense. How is stating that anti-Semitic??
Bill O'Reilly acting like a buffoon looking like Hitler acting like a buffoon? I'm sorry if you didn't think that was funny.Like I said before,stay away from "the Producers".BTW,do you have the same reaction to Mr O'Reilly DIRECTLY calling Daily Kos and Arrianna Huffington Nazis.
And let me REPOST my 8:05 post for the second time.
" Don't argue with me.I'm not saying I share those sentiments.Only that I can understand why a Jew might suspect that.Why don't you ask your Jewish acquaintances what they think of creating a characticture of a Jewish man by broadening his nose and yellowing his teeth?"
July 7, 2008, 2:45:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
I'm wondering if Stephen Reddicliffe is Jewish too?
I mean, if we're going to argue that the treatment of any Jewish person who has caricatured with exaggerated features and ugly teeth, is reminiscent of Nazi propaganda tactics....and if we're going to do this regardless of the context of the caricatures, shouldn't we bother to know if they're both Jewish?
If Reddicliffe isn't Jewish, Muslim, from the Middle East, physically or mentally handicapped, homosexual or transsexual, then what will this all be reminiscent of?
I mean beside the obvious of -- petty prank?
July 7, 2008, 2:46:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Oh, well, even better, nvh. It's that SOME people could logically find it so...
Duly noted...
Johnny, isn't this one of the stupider distractions to come a long in awhile and since we're all just discussing theoretical 'somebodies', don't you think it's time you shut this act down and waved the clown car on to the next ring?
July 7, 2008, 2:52:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
NVH:
The link below takes you to a series of slides. Slide #27 is particularly illustrative, large nose, yellow teeth, a juvenile attempt at humor a wittiness, etc. I am certain this will be insufficient, but it seems perfectly in point.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ushmm.org/photos/thumb/37/37860a.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_query/photos%3Fquery%3Dkw122571&h=80&w=73&sz=8&hl=en&start=178&um=1&tbnid=kfvkN3goBnQKkM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=68&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnazi%2Bdepicting%2Bjews%26start%3D160%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GGIH_enUS243US243%26sa%3DN
July 7, 2008, 2:53:40 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
For the record,Cecilia,I did not say "most people".I wrote:
"Bottom line is that most serious news consumers recognize Fox for what it is,and what it does."
Now that's just my opinion.I can't PROVE it,just my impression.
July 7, 2008, 2:56:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Cecelia | 07.07.08 - 2:57 pm |
The point is that some people DID note a similarity in styles, and I noted that I can logically understand why. "Why don't you ask your Jewish acquaintances what they think of creating a characticture of a Jewish man by broadening his nose and yellowing his teeth?"Let us know how that works out.
July 7, 2008, 3:02:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
nvh, I've seen The Producers and I missed the part where a real person was lampooned as having mannerisms reminiscent of the gently persuasive speaker-- Herr Adolph Hitler.
Who was that and did they mind?
July 7, 2008, 3:07:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
> Johnny, isn't this one of the stupider distractions to come a long in awhile...
Oh, absolutely.
> ...don't you think it's time you shut this act down and waved the clown car on to the next ring?
Eh, maybe not yet. It's still the big talk of the internet today. And that in itself is telling. I find fascinating the furor over this whole kerfuffle. I'm not taking a side on whether what Fox did was just good fun, or an outrage, or somewhere in between. I have the poll to resolve that, at least for readers of this site.
What fascinates me is how there are now literally thousands of outraged articles, blog posts, and whatever about how disgusting it is for a news channel to photoshop someone's picture. Now you would think someone would have tumbled to the evil of this practice before now. After all, Olbermann's been doing it for years, in some cases more egregiously than Fox's photoshop. And yet nobody found it disgusting, over the line, immoral, unprofessional, etc.
There are even a fair number of votes in my poll for what was intended as a 'joke' answer: it's an outrage IF FOX does it.
How ironic that the people who have been insisting that Fox is anti-Palestinian and a tool of the neocons and Zionists are now reduced to arguing that their photoshop job is Hitlerian anti-Semitism. The same people who never raised an eyebrow over a Jewish reporter being called a "monkey" ("Jewish monkeys" is a typical racial slur of Middle East anti-Semites) by a commentator who has been censured by the ADL.
It's all instructive, enlightening, and a window into the soul that identifies the hypocrites and the haters.
Me, I'm happy to talk about other stuff, but that would mean the thread hogs would have to stick by their word and "not discuss this matter further". And that may not be their true agenda.
Hey, how about that Alisyn Camerota clunking her head?
July 7, 2008, 3:08:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
nvh, all my Jewish acquaintances would ask me the context in which their fellow Jew was caricatured.
Now, it's true that I could ignore THAT question and simply yell "It was by Fox and Friends!" and some of them might say..."Well, in that case... it sure does seem like something done by Hitler and company", but I'm just guessing what they'd think or say... right?...
July 7, 2008, 3:11:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Hey, how about that Alisyn Camerota clunking her head?
johnny dollar | Homepage | 07.07.08 - 3:13 pm | #
Reminiscent of Himmler's treatment of Aryan females who betrayed the Fatherland...
July 7, 2008, 3:25:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
I suggest that everone check out Clucker's link to slide No 27 to see what he offers as "proof".
It is a "Page from the anti-Semitic German children's book, "Der Giftpilz" ( The Poisonous Mushroom). [Photograph #40005]" showing a mushroom morphed into a yellow vicious degenerate man with one yellow tooth and two broken little nubs with a wildly exagerated large hooked nose.
I can't argue with such overwhelming evidence. I don't know how I missed that yellow teeth and a broad nose are right up there at the top with all the other vicious Nazi propoganda tricks. No wonder so many immdiately saw F&F's anti semitism.
And no, I don't see how those F&F's photos could be reasonably seen as the equivalent to Nazi dogma and propoganda. If it were there should be at least a smattering of actual propoganda that is basically the same.
I don't know of any and so far no one has pointed any out.
July 7, 2008, 3:25:52 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Ya know, I started on this thread by saying "It seemed just another low-brow trick....But on reexamination,I can see why these questions of anti-Semitism would arise." It never occured to me that this was a contentious statement, that I could understand why someone sensitive to these issues might think that.
Now,several veiled accusations of anti-Semitism and an unveiled "It's all instructive, enlightening, and a window into the soul that identifies the hypocrites and the haters." later, and "neocon cabal theories" go unsupported,because of "stupider distractions".
July 7, 2008, 3:30:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
> and an unveiled "It's all instructive, enlightening, and a window into the soul that identifies the hypocrites and the haters."
I hasten to add that I was pointing no fingers, either literally or metaphorically, on this point to any one in the immediate vicinity of this particular rhetorical exchange, but rather to the more general reactions that were delineated in my humble commentary on the disproportionate standards that so often pervade the discourse on certain matters among those who have been blinded by extreme detestation or other simulacra of logical impairment.
July 7, 2008, 3:35:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
"And no, I don't see how those F&F's photos could be reasonably seen as the equivalent to Nazi dogma and propoganda.'
Why is it ALL OR NOTHING. If one suggests that they see a similarity in styles,that DOES NOT MEAN that they see something as "the equivalent of Nazi dogma..."
July 7, 2008, 3:35:25 PM EDT – Like – Reply
cee
The normal self-important voices that instruct us all of what should provoke fear, anger, indignation, condemnation, etc are being heard. I ignore them as usual.
It is a correct observation that these same voices were silent with the use of an actual Nazi salute or the use of an actual anti-Semitic term against Chris Wallace.
In fact, I recall excuses and shrugged shoulders over Olbermann's behavior.....not from you NVH....unless you have used a different screen name (like some here).
I vote for the joke selection. F&F's motive was not in connection with religious hatred, like I see on the far left blogs....it was childish graffiti.
July 7, 2008, 3:38:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Right JD. And pigs fly and my beagle isn't hungry.
Now I've got to go help a blind,autistic psychotic with his bath.
July 7, 2008, 3:39:52 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
It's utterly amazing! The point was never that the F&F's clowning around was an effort to replicate Nazi anti-Semitic propoganda. Even Doocy has more sense and better taste than that.
The point was the doctored photos were SUGGESTIVE OF the anti-Semitic caricatures and, as such in questionable or very bad taste. Julius Streicher is dead and Der Stürmer is out of business. If the only way to satisfy the strident ones is to have the 5th Circuit rule F&F to have engaged in copyright enfringement of Streicher and Der Stürmer and the Supremes to deny certiorari, then we shall lack the requisite proof I am afraid. A great victory for bad taste, no doubt, taste so bad a plethora of pansies couldn't hide it.
July 7, 2008, 3:45:53 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
" For the curious,a link to der Strumer cartoons.
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/c...gpa/ sturmer.htm
notveryhow | 07.07.08 - 7:08 am | # "
"Grammie,
Did you look at the link above?And there is much more available on-line.Although truth be told,it was more a question of 'style' than a replication.
From my 8:05 post? "Don't argue with me.I'm not saying I share those sentiments.Only that I can understand why a Jew might suspect that.Why don't you ask your Jewish acquaintances what they think of creating a characticture of a Jewish man by broadening his nose and yellowing his teeth?"
BTW,are you a pansy fan too?
notveryhow | 07.07.08 - 9:51 am | # "
What should be theobvious point that I am asking you to prove is that if one can understand the accusation then that understanding should be based on something. What are you aware of that while not agreeing with the accusation you understand the basis of it b/c of............
July 7, 2008, 3:46:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Now I've got to go help a blind,autistic psychotic with his bath.
notveryhow | 07.07.08 - 3:44 pm |
Don't fall for it, nvh!
Mark isn't blind or autistic! Tell him he doesn't need your help!
July 7, 2008, 4:02:11 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
Now I've got to go help a blind,autistic psychotic with his bath.
notveryhow | 07.07.08 - 3:44 pm | #
I feel for any person that has to bath otm. You have my deepest sympathies....
July 7, 2008, 4:04:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Actually, if someone were to provide this service, he or she would "bathe" me, not bath me, and I am pleased to see that your sense of humor includes not only Semites, but also the blind and the autistic. Maybe, you should contact Doocy --- never mind.
July 7, 2008, 4:08:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
We would contact Doocy for you, Mark, but F&F already has a blind autistic psychotic Jewish guy on the show: Geraldo Rivera.
July 7, 2008, 4:19:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Danny
I might add that when a transparent ringer decides not to deal with the substantive issue but rather to reach deep into a grimmy bag of invictive, I feel the substantive point has prevailed. This is an important point, so that pleases me as much as your insults of me do. I fully realize that I am onto something very important here, and that I am a voice well enough respected to warrant your very special attention.
Note: my main computer is in the shop so my computer time is way down.
What the Hell are you talking about Mark? Maybe if I had called you a lot of names you could describe my reaction as filled with invective and insults. Simply describing accurately your past behavior is my no reasonable definitions of the words as stream of invective and insults.
And I am by no means a ringer. I am independent and I am not in collusion with anyone. If you were truthful, I seriously doubt that you can say the same thing about yourself.
What this all proves Mark is how divorced from reality your statements continue to be and how you are dead wrong again and again and again.
July 7, 2008, 4:20:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Perhaps, I am in cahoots with the dreaded and dreadful Olbermann, making his most feared critics so angry with me that their anger is spent and not directed at him. Perhaps, I am Jeff Immelt's doppelgänger. Perhaps, I am the agent of Wanda the Weather Woman on WWWX, and I am trying to get Doocy canned so that she might have his position. Why, the mind just boggles at the thought. But, that persistent ringing sound makes it impossible for me to think further.
July 7, 2008, 4:28:58 PM EDT – Like – Reply
cee
"Hey, how about that Alisyn Camerota clunking her head?"
Nevermind about Alisyn....The big question for those concerned here is...
How did those anti-Semites at FNC treat the guest, Jay Thomas, after Alisyn's romp?
July 7, 2008, 4:30:40 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Danny
Mark,
It all makes a much sense as what you called me. Which is to say that you are (as usual) making no sense at all. You are not doing anything but confirming my opinion that just about everything you say is wrong.
Given a choice between your antics on this forum which have been described by those other than me as juvenile and Doocy's supposedly juvenile (but still IMHO good natured) behavior . . . I'll take his every time.
July 7, 2008, 4:50:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply
cee
"Yet there was this curious casting niche he kept falling into. 'I always seem to play the role of a Jewish person,' he said. 'On 'Love and War' I played Jack Stein, a left-wing Jewish man. On 'Murphy Brown,' I was Jerry Gold, a right-wing Jewish man. And I won an Emmy for that part. The trouble is, I'm not Jewish. But everyone I met in L.A. thought I was a Jewish man from Brooklyn."
Jay Thomas....NYT interview 2/2000
###
Tricky, ain't it?
July 7, 2008, 4:53:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Maybe I can arrange for Doocy to put on a squirt lapel pin, a pair of big floppy shoes and a bright orange wig and bring a whoppie cushion over to your house, Danny. Maybe, a Mr. Potato Head game, too. Imagine what the two of you could do with a variety of different size noses and ears. It would be a laugh a minute. Of course, I realize I probably just gave Doocy's producer an idea for tomorrow morning's Laugh-In II.
July 7, 2008, 5:01:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
Danny,
Seriously consider the idea of "paid antics." Per diem or per antic would be difficult to judge...
I think I got the yellow teeth connection, Grammie: the forced wearing of the yellow star. Yellow/yellow. Isn't it obvious? The second picture shows the gentleman with less hair so that has got to refer to the shaving at the concentration camps. The comparions are practically endless. Bad Fox, bad.
July 7, 2008, 5:16:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
Doocy's producer an idea for tomorrow morning's Laugh-In II.
Mark | 07.07.08 - 5:06 pm | #
Does dqr put a gun to your head and make you watch F&F's every morning? Just curious.
July 7, 2008, 5:24:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Cecelia | 07.07.08 - 4:07 pm |
oblio| Homepage | 07.07.08 - 4:09 pm
Cecelia | 07.07.08 - 4:24 pm |
I must say I'm really suprised.Ain't you guys sweet.
Michael is on SSI (yes,sucking at the government teat.)His medication is paid for by Medicaid,and his housing is partly financed with Federal block grants.So have at it.
July 7, 2008, 5:38:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
I commend you so, NVH, for what you are doing. The personal involvement is so important. I realize that you are doing this for someone and not for some reward, but I know you do feel a reward. You should.
July 7, 2008, 6:01:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
She's drawin' a paycheck for doin' it, otm. Don't pat her on the back so hard, you might knock the wind out of her. Or, yourself.
July 7, 2008, 6:27:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Oblio,
There have been more than enough statements of my gender for anyone with a pair of neurons to rub together would know that I am the proud owner of an XY chromosome pair.Why do you persist?
Yes,I am a paid caregiver,working with people who have truly devastating illnesses.There are rewards.Money isn't one of them.
July 7, 2008, 6:39:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Yes,I am a paid caregiver,working with people who have truly devastating illnesses.There are rewards.Money isn't one of them.
notveryhow | 07.07.08 - 6:44 pm | #
Oh, my goodness... anonymous care givers writing posts to strangers about giving a bath to a blind autistic psychotic client, blind autistic psychotic folks themselves.... the personal info of some guy named Michael that Mark spilled all over merely in an attempt to make political opponents feel badly....NYT writers... Is nothing sacred anymore??
Evidently, not. Least of all to the people who tsk tsk the loudest...
July 7, 2008, 7:10:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Oops, I apologize, Mark. You didn't reveal someone's personal information. The poor guy's own care giver did!
July 7, 2008, 7:13:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
There are rewards.Money isn't one of them.
notveryhow | 07.07.08 - 6:44 pm | #
Would being able to post your political opinion all day long every day be one of them?
July 7, 2008, 7:23:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Sometimes, it is truly amazing to me how some people can be so mean and so gleeful about their meanness. What an odd, odd thing of which to be proud!
I am beginning to think it is not FNC to which I object, but its fans. Then, I have to realize that some of the fans include people like Johnny, Mike and Fox Fan himself, that there are too many admirable, enjoyable, interesting exceptions to make that the rule.
My respect for you, NVH, is not diminished in the least. I could not do what you are doing for any price. Don't let the merchants of meanness and the peddlers of pettiness get to you, as I know you won't.
July 7, 2008, 8:11:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
" Don't argue with me.I'm not saying I share those sentiments.Only that I can understand why a Jew might suspect that.Why don't you ask your Jewish acquaintances what they think of creating a characticture of a Jewish man by broadening his nose and yellowing his teeth?"- nvh
Since you've copied and pasted this quote of yours over and over in this thread, allow me to answer since it was originally directed to me.
The Jewish folks I work with have great senses of humor and can sometimes be self-deprecating as a method of said humor. More than once I've heard one of them say "I'd get lunch with you guys, but I packed. I'm cheap, but hey, I'm Jewish!" It's funny. Get over it. They would very likely think the edited pics are funny too, mainly because they're not PC pansy-asses such as yourself.
Political correctness
July 7, 2008, 8:18:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
The above should read humor>political correctness.
I'm not trying to be mean, Mark. Just realistic. The nobody-can-be-offended crowd is a PC perversion of reality. If someone is offended at reality, perhaps they have already been removed from it by the PC buffers of spinelessness.
July 7, 2008, 8:22:35 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Go back and reread, FF. I specifically said you are not one of the mean ones. Otherwise, I agree with your statement.
July 7, 2008, 8:27:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Thanks for pointing that out Mark. I did misread. Apologies!
July 7, 2008, 8:30:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
How sweet. Flucker and FF just kissed and made up!
Sorry, FF, its just my meaness coming thru. As a Certified By Clucker Non Meanie you probably won't understand the compulsion to laugh out loud at that exchange.
Grammie
AKA Big Old Meanie
July 7, 2008, 9:01:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I do treat folks who haven't wronged me with respect, Grammie. No apologies there.
July 7, 2008, 9:05:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
Don't let the merchants of meanness and the peddlers of pettiness get to you, as I know you won't.
Mark | 07.07.08 - 8:16 pm | #
The irony and hypocrisy are OFF the chart. Broke the needle!
July 7, 2008, 9:12:35 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
FF, I have no problem with that as far as it goes.
It just struck me forcefully that you went from objecting to being called "mean" to extending your gracious thanks that you were explicitly excluded from the Ranks of Mean, or in other words the majority of the commenters that you exchange ideas with daily.
Exactly who in that exchange was being respectful to who while being now, and fairly consistently so, disrespectful to all but a select few.
That does not sit ell with me at all.
July 7, 2008, 9:15:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
OS, you nailed that down good and tight and right on target.
July 7, 2008, 9:16:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Well, Grammie, considering the personal insults Mr. Nice has tossed out us he sure is sensitive.
All it took to bring out accusations of meanness was to take personal information that NVH tossed about out of the blue and then to joke around and make HIM (Mark) the butt of it. :D
Oh, the depth of nasty...
And for THAT nvh gives out personal information about his own client merely in order to insult the ole heartless conservatives-- by putting words in our mouths which suggest we'd just love to call his client a leech...
Yeah, you can't get more nice than these two...
July 7, 2008, 9:29:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
Grammie, I think FF took his cake and ran. Hope he has a "taster."
July 7, 2008, 9:32:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Grammie, I didn't read Mark's comment as disparaging to EVERYONE on this site other than the explicitly defined ones; Mike, johnny, and me. The five folks who have the biggest beef with him were the target of his comment, and while I have the greatest respect for all 5, I reserve the right to respect Mark too.
That said, I don't play choose him-or-me games. I appreciate and enjoy the comments from most posters here, nvh, Mark, and even Haggis included. Also johnny, OS, Cece, Ashley, Mike, Grammie, sharm, INB, and countless others included.
Excluded are PbDs and Eric.
July 7, 2008, 9:32:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
FF, you may want to consider that you aren't being wronged... you're being used as a foil against the people Mark wishes to insult.
If you'll bother to notice, you'll see it's generally the scenario in which Mark manages to compliment anyone.
Next time when he tells you how smart you are and how much he's learned from you, pay attention to who else is in the conversation and to who's around and why he's leaving them out...
July 7, 2008, 9:34:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I make my own mind up. I am not naive. I am not an ideologue to either side of you and Mark's issues.
I'm just a Fox Fan who likes J$P and is willing to hear either side of the argument.
July 7, 2008, 9:42:30 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Well, considering what Johnny has directly stated about the man, it's interesting that you're willing to entertain "both sides of the argument" and believe that we could be bad mean guys as Mark suggests.
You can have an opened mind, but realize when you're being used and don't keep it so opened that your brains fall out.
July 7, 2008, 9:49:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I know you're not mean, Cece. I never said I believed that, I think you're a very likable person. I said your issues with Mark are yours, not mine.
July 7, 2008, 9:54:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Fair enough, F.F. And so it follows that I can only take your finding me likable with all the consideration that your discernment seems to offer.
July 7, 2008, 10:00:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I already said I don't play choose him-or-me. I don't count you out as a friendly poster, only you can do that.
July 7, 2008, 10:05:07 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
FF: Sorry if I put you in the line of fire, FF. Shrapnel often finds its own target, but I no doubt bought out Annie Oakley.
July 7, 2008, 10:11:53 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
FF, this is a blog board, not a social set. You don't have to choose either or us. What you can do is the mere rudimentary thing that wisdom would dictate in situations where you are being complimented in the context of this person calling other people "mean" (people who you do not find mean).
What would that be? Well, it wouldn't be thanking the person for not including you with your friends who he is dissing.
July 7, 2008, 10:16:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
As I said on the other thread:
"Will you walk into my parlor?" said the spider to the fly"
J$, how comeI I get a square where I used to get a smile icon when my comment is posted?
July 7, 2008, 10:17:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
All in a day's work for you, Mark. It was precisely your intent, but FF needed some feedback nonetheless.
July 7, 2008, 10:17:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Cecelia, isn't it possible for you to forgive Mark's past comments and engage him in his present context? The amount of comments on this site discussing past transgressions is silly.
Sorry that I thanked him for not including me in his "mean" list. Sheesh. Does it really matter?
July 7, 2008, 10:24:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Grammie, how about, walk into my parlor in and I'm picturing you in a lovely tea dress because you're special and not like your friends who must stay out on the lawn....
Lord, I wasn't even born THAT young. It must have been being raised by my father, with two brothers and no mother or sisters.
July 7, 2008, 10:25:36 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
FF,
Nope. It's not. He is what he is and I'd sooner turn my back on an crocodile.
July 7, 2008, 10:26:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
FF, I shouldn't have to tell you that such a thing would matter. But I did. It matters for both of us.
July 7, 2008, 10:29:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
OK, let's try to talk cable news and not about other posters. I think everyone's positions on the latter are quite clear.
July 7, 2008, 10:33:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Cece, it matters only as much as you care to take offense to OTM's calling you "mean".
Don't be so fragile. Mark called you mean, I thought you were tougher than this.
July 7, 2008, 10:34:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
The lovely tan tea ensemble with a silk scarf that got mucked up ?
FF, you obviously don't have the experience with him as we do or you would never suggest such a thing or be surprised that we haven't already done it.
Anytime you are interested just contact me thru J$ and I'll tell you some true stories that will singe your hair.
"Sorry that I thanked him for not including me in his "mean" list. Sheesh. Does it really matter?
Fox Fan | 07.07.08 - 10:29 pm | # "
Yes, it does b/c it implied to me that you were in some sort of agreement with him. If I knew a group were being unfairly insulted and I was told that "Oh No! I didn't include YOU, NOT YOU in that mean group" I would not express thanks for being excluded from false charges.
July 7, 2008, 10:39:07 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
FF, it wasn't Mark I was surprise at.
July 7, 2008, 10:39:54 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
Dittos!
July 7, 2008, 10:41:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
I'm done, Johnny! Sorry! On to the next thread.
July 7, 2008, 10:42:37 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Sorry for the diversion, Johnny, and you are, of course, correct.
July 7, 2008, 10:43:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply
