Wednesday Links & Open Thread
Latest cable news links [updated through the day]:
Coop commends Greta.
Joe S returns soon.
Greg [not Griff] Jenkins leaves FNC.
Tuesday's numbers.
How long is a moment?
Fox & Friends photoshops the New York Times.
Decrease Dick Morris?
Hotline quotes.
King-Bash wedding video pulled.
From J-School to cable news.
MSNBC fudging the numbers? Greta reacts, castigates Keith.
Electoral excess?
Local hero.
Flashback: Bill O'Reilly, 2001.
Baby Scarborough update.
J$P 24-Hour Poll:
Use our valuable bandwidth to post your comments on any and all cable news topics in today's open thread. Standard rules apply. fox news cable news
Missy
A New Republican Strategist!
I saw this girl on Fox twice today - her name is Andrea Taranto (or something like that). Anyway, she is GREAT. She REALLY stands up to those liberals, and really, really stood up to Alan tonight. I just loved it when he went on with his usual drivel, and she kept either saying, "oh, please" when he'd say something idiotic, or she'd just ask "May I finish" when Alan or another lib interrupted.
She seems quite young, but she really knows her stuff, and really has a comeback to each of the liberal talking points.
Anyway, a great addition to FNC!!!
July 2, 2008, 1:25:05 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Missy
And re: the Factor substitute poll. I voted for Kasich, but my next choice would be Malkin, followed by Laura.
E.D. would be good, but she seems to hold back on her opinion when she's hosted that program.
But another excellent choice is always John Gibson. I miss him and wish FNC would restore him to his 5 p.m. time slot.
July 2, 2008, 1:28:05 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Missy
J$, this will be my third, but last comment for tonight. No Exile Island for me!
I just wanted to add that E.D. should certainly be kept by FNC, but I don't think she excels when on the Factor. She does great when she hosts those specials, or when she sits in on Fox News Watch.
OK, that's it. Good night everyone.
July 2, 2008, 1:30:13 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
That's an impressive poll thing, Johnny.
July 2, 2008, 1:57:59 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
There are no "atta boy"s for Keith's SEC on FISA at the Thank you, Keith Olbermann site.
Those fickle fans...
July 2, 2008, 4:02:56 AM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
What an inteesting fluff piece on Mr O'Reilly.One wonders if Newsweek was paid for that.
It is such an interesting paradox that many who are Republican,who fear and accuse the Democrats of instigating "class warfare",are fans of Mr O'reilly.From reading this article, his public persona seems to embrace and celebrate class resentment against the economic and educational elite.
Though I've heard some real bloopers emenate from Mr O'Reilly (Malmedy comes to mind),I'm not sure I could do any better.It takes a special kind of talent to babble on-air for hours on a daily basis.(The relative value of this 'talent' is another question.
My only heartfelt beef with Mr O'Reilly was his statements about Shawn Hornbeck. That was the peak of irresponsibility.
July 2, 2008, 7:13:17 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Is this poll less manipulatable by folks like that one person with no life who sabotaged it last time? Fancy graphics.
I voted for Malkin. She's super smart and not a pushover. Kasich is smart but a pushover, I've never really liked him (sorry Missy!). Laura is second to Malkin, E.D. third even though I love E.D.
I wish Malkin would get over her grudge re: Geraldo. O'Reilly should have dumped Geraldo in the dust-up and kept Malkin.
July 2, 2008, 7:13:39 AM EDT – Like – Reply
GrandpaD
Good poll software. Hope it's bullet-proof.
I voted for Ingraham, but I like Missy's suggestion of John Gibson. Malkin and Hill are OK but Kasich is tune-out for me.
July 2, 2008, 7:55:54 AM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
I am going to astonishingly agree with NVH on one point: O'Reilly's comment about S. Hornbeck. I think irresponsible is a fair term. I believe O'Reilly had a duty to retract that comment outright and make a heartfelt apology. He also should have publicly donated money to the charity organized by the family. Because of his prior and post work to protect children, I believe he does want to act on behalf of children. I won't condemn him for crusading on their behalf.
I voted for Kasich. I don't view him as a caver, but someone who tries to civilly press the debate. I only saw Malkin substituing a couple of times, and to me, she didn't seem in her comfort zone. Same with E.D., but I would put her ahead of Malkin. John Gibson would be a good choice. I think Laura needs her own venue to showcase her talent.
July 2, 2008, 8:30:51 AM EDT – Like – Reply
CMR
I also like Missy's suggestion of John Gibson.
July 2, 2008, 9:19:45 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Kasich is pleasant and informative, and Hill is not bad. We have more than enough anger on television as it is, and the last thing I want is Malkin screaming or Ingraham whining.
July 2, 2008, 9:48:27 AM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
I knew of John Kasich from his time in Congress. Although we didn't often agree,I could appreciate his respectful attitude and strong native intelligence.I've seen a little of his work on Fox.I think he does a good job as an advocate of his position without denigrating the opposition.I might actually watch him conduct interviews.Owing to his style there may be something to learn.
The question becomes,would it be marketable to have a more information based,less confrontational style? Is that what O'Reilly's viewers are looking for? Several posters here have already suggested he's a pushover for his style.
July 2, 2008, 9:55:54 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Good synopsis, NVH, and I do think that a large percentage of BOR's viewership is comprised of people who like the anger and vindictive. Kasich couldn't do that if he tried. Both Malkin and Ingraham are talented in that regard. Between the two, I'd have to say Malkin is the better fit because she also shares BOR's inexplicable pettiness. Ingraham seems to have little stomach for that.
July 2, 2008, 10:10:12 AM EDT – Like – Reply
ImNotBlue
I'm a big fan of Bernie Goldberg... especially after reading his books. I really feel they under utilize him as a journalist and commentator... and think he could make a really great replacement host for O'Reilly.
He's got the experience, he's passionate, and he's unafraid. I think he'd be great in that roll.
July 2, 2008, 11:24:40 AM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
Another good choice INB.
July 2, 2008, 11:27:31 AM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Once again, I find myself in total disagreement with Mark. IMHO NVH's synopsis or analysis was very poor. To say it was shallow would be an understatement. Both NVH and Mark seemed more intent on taking swipes at BOR rather than objectively analyzing his success.
One part of BOR's appeal is his apparent sincerity. There is an old saying which is as follows: "The key to success is sincerity. Once you learn how to fake that you have got it made."
If BOR is not sincere in what he says, he does a damn good job of faking it.
He is passionate about what he says (which feeds into his sincerity), and audiences are drawn to passionate people. And, O'reilly's range of emotion is much broader than Olbermann's unrelenting hatred of everything he does not like. Unlike Olbermann, BOR often uses self-depreciating humor. His references to obviating, and BOR's willingness to make fun of himself make him attractive.
BOR is a good interviewer. He knows how to not let an interview get off track, which is harder to do than many think. In a day when to many interviewers on too many cable companies are doing fluff pieces (yes that includes Fox), BOR is not afraid to ask tough, penetrating questions.
His show is well organized. It is structured a little like a news magazine with its many sections: talking points; unresolved problems; etc. It moves at a fast pace and is never boring.
BOR is intelligent and fearless. It is really hard to get the best of him in a debate. Many have tried and many have failed.
IMHO, like Tim Russert, BOR has unique qualities that make him impossible to replace. None of the people in the poll can do what he does. If he should ever leave Fox, he will leave a vacancy.
July 2, 2008, 11:31:13 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
danny | 07.02.08 - 11:36 am | #
Well said. I would add -
His tireless efforts against child predators are to be applauded by everyone.
July 2, 2008, 3:50:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply
cee
Greta speaks the plain truth. There is really only #1 that matters and FNC has consistently been #1 in total viewers for over 7 years now.
Small little battles in time slots, or with special programs, or with press release spin, or with demos is all well and good, but in the end, there is only one overall #1.....Good for Greta in spelling it out so nicely.
Speaking of Greta, I wonder if she is going to cover the flawed facts the SCOTUS majority used in their rationalization of striking down the state's right to execute child rapists in Kennedy v. Louisiana?
(And discovered by a lowly blogger too...how sweet http://tinyurl.com/6h3zqs )
I remember a certain poster here (OTM) pompously demanding another (OS) to show great (and BLIND) respect for these flawed and lazy lawyers. Oh well, I guess the highly regarded leftist pontificators who know all truth will simply have to live with egg on their face.
July 2, 2008, 4:10:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Ashley | 07.02.08 - 3:55 pm |
It might just be me,but I believe that Mr O"Reilly has lost all credibility he ever may have had about "child predators" because of his remarks about Shawn Hornbeck.
First,let's point out that the vast majority (85-90%) of pedophiles are not a stranger.They are someone that the child knows,and uncle,a father brother,or close family friend.
Also,they are not sadists.They often are very kind to the child,buying gifts,giving special privileges.And they justify thier behavior to themselves by believing that it's an equal trade.They give the child pleasure and gifts, so that "The situation here for this kid looks to me to be a lot more fun than what he had under his old parents" as Mr O'Reilly said.
Now don't fly off the hook here.I'm not saying that Bill is a pedophile.What I am saying is that Scott's kidnapper probably justified what he was doing by believing that this kid was having " a lot more fun",and wanted to stay.And this feeds into the self-justification of every sick,twisted, deserving to be castrated pedophile on the planet.
Did Bill ever apologize?Did Bill ever say I didn't know what I was talking about and I apologize to Shawn Hornbeck and every other child victim whose suffering,now and in the future,I trivialized and justified?
So,IMO,any brownie points that Mr O'Reilly gained by going after supposedly lenient judges is negated.
danny | 07.02.08 - 11:36 am |
Au contraire.With your post's emphasis on passion and sincerity,you prove my point that Mr O'Reilly's appeal is to the emotions and not the intellect.
July 2, 2008, 4:43:54 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
NVH,
No you did not read the entire post. I also spoke of his intelligence; his interviewing skill; and his skill in debate.
BOR's appeal is both to intellect and emotions. That is what you must do to succeed in his business.
July 2, 2008, 4:56:30 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
I also said that the show was well organized which, in itself, has an intellectual appeal.
July 2, 2008, 4:57:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply
jv
No one is commenting on fox altering the photos?
July 2, 2008, 5:06:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
NVH,
BOR was advocating for children well before the Shawn Hornbeck incident.
July 2, 2008, 5:06:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
"Did Bill ever say I didn't know what I was talking about and I apologize to Shawn Hornbeck and every other child victim whose suffering,now and in the future,I trivialized and justified?"
I already gave my thoughts on what I believe he should have done, but you are off base. BOR, the next day, did state that "we" (I don't like that narrative) were unfamiliar with the syndrome where the child acquiesces out of fear. If you recall, BOR was focused on the Stockholm syndrome which he said did not apply to Hornbeck and maybe not anyone, and also made that horrid comment.
July 2, 2008, 5:12:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Aeris Gainsborough
[message deleted for rules violation: duplicative link]
Edited By Siteowner
July 2, 2008, 5:20:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
Last point, Johnny. I don't know how to truncate it effectively. I don't think it was a good enough statement for Shawn, but it is not the picture given by NVH.
From February 20, 2007
O'REILLY: The issue of child rape is extremely complicated. Each situation's different. When the Shawn Hornbeck case broke, many pinheads in the media ran out screaming "Stockholm syndrome." That is the captive identifies with the captor. That's just bull. And anyone who said that's irresponsible.
What happened to Shawn Hornbeck and thousands of other kids is called child sexual abuse accommodation syndrome. That is, the child is literally tortured into accepting his circumstance. This is so evil, it's almost beyond comprehension. The guy who did this to Shawn Hornbeck, Michael Devlin, doesn't deserve to live another day in this world. That's how evil the man is.
"Talking Points" is not going to report specifics about the Devlin case. I'm going leave that to the authorities. But everybody should know this is beyond horrifying. And no rehab should ever be in play.
The bottom line is that every American must understand child molestation is evil, not a disease, not an aberration. It's evil, and it must be punished as harshly as possible. I hope you watch the Oprah program tomorrow. And we'll discuss it later on that night on the Factor. OK? Right here tomorrow evening. And that's the "Memo."
http://tinyurl.com/4a3h3t
July 2, 2008, 5:21:58 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Personally, I believe in the Stockholm Syndrome. I am sympathetic with Patsy Hearst even though she was convicted of a crime while under the sway of her kidnappers. I can understand why Elizabeth Smart said nothing even when she had the opportunity to do so. I am sympathetic with Hornbeck even though I found the following from a news article.
Hornbeck spoke with a Kirkwood police officer to report his bike stolen about 10 months after he was kidnapped from nearby Washington County.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,245224,00.html
The article also states that Hornbeck had enough freedom to date a girl for several months, while he was in captivity.
BOR does not understand how that can happen if the boy is an unwilling victim. I understand why he has trouble understanding; although I disagree with BOR in this case.
Simply because BOR does not understand the power of the Stockholm Syndrome, especially on the mind of a minor, does not disqualify BOR from being a sincere crusader against child predators. That is just over dramatic, ridiculous, and absurd.
July 2, 2008, 5:25:51 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
Ashley | 07.02.08 - 3:55 pm |
It might just be me,but I believe that Mr O"Reilly has lost all credibility he ever may have had about "child predators" because of his remarks about Shawn Hornbeck.
notveryhow | 07.02.08 - 4:48 pm |
I may have missed something, but I've never heard BOR say anything about Shawn Hornbeck that could make him lose even an ounce of credibility.
If you know of something so horrid, please post the exact quote or a link to a reputable site that has factual information rather than interpretation.
July 2, 2008, 5:30:53 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
I really hope Keith Olbermann does give a WPITW nomination to FOX News.
Aeris Gainsborough | Homepage | 07.02.08 - 5:25 pm | #
Since FNC is all KO ever thinks about, it's a safe bet that he will.
July 2, 2008, 5:43:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ImNotBlue
Ashley-
It's an old smear, used over and over again by the hater crowd.
They don't mention, however, that O'Reilly was able to go on "Oprah," where he was asked about his comments. He clarified them (which really just meant, he restarted what he said... minus the hater smear), and even Oprah agreed that the philosophy had merit.
But as usual, the haters keep on hating... hoping nobody notices their smears.
July 2, 2008, 5:50:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
Thanks INB - then I figure that the quote posted above by Sharm at 5:26 must be the quote. If so, then anyone saying the this was against Hornbeck is flat out wrong. It's about those in the media who claim this is stockholm syndrome. Some believe it really is Stockholm, some belive that its what O'Reilly said. Either way, it's opinion. None of us are psychiatrists or pyschologists. But to lose credibility because BOR refers this act as "Evil" and it "must be punished", that's simply ignorant.
July 2, 2008, 5:56:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
"That's just bull. And anyone who said that's irresponsible."
And Mr O'Reilly knows this how??
CSAAS is a relatively new concept.CSAAS is applied to reaction to sexual abuse,not kidnapping."Stockholm Syndrome" applies to hostage situations, and thus would apply more closely to Shawn Hornbecks situation,although the concepts of CSAAS would also apply.
In short,Mr O'Reilly does not know what he is talking about.There are many situations where he can pontificate about what he does not understand and cause no harm,but this situation was not one of them.
July 2, 2008, 5:57:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
"The situation here for this kid looks to me to be a lot more fun than what he had under his old parents"
I've already explained why this statement was damaging in my 4:48 post.
Are you suggesting that BOR did not say this?
July 2, 2008, 6:01:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
nvh, who are the several posters here who suggested that O'Reilly is a "pushover for his style", whatever that means? Let me answer that: 1. You.
Mark, one person's vindictiveness and anger is another's assertiveness and passion on the issues. Yes, O'Reilly plays to emotion, and that's exactly what philosophy and politics play to as well. At least he does it with intelligence, tact, and IMO wisdom.
I might be biased towards O'Reilly, I've seen every show for many years now...big fan.
July 2, 2008, 6:05:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
"Kasich is smart but a pushover,"
I believe that was you,Fox Fan.
"but Kasich is tune-out for me."GrandpaD
"I voted for Kasich. I don't view him as a caver," Sharm
July 2, 2008, 6:14:09 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
BOR does not hold himself to be an expert on the psychology of people who have been victimized by an abductor. He has earned no degrees in that area; he has written no peer reveiwed journal articles on that topic; he has never offered himself as a expert witness to testify on that subject. It is hard for me to see how BOR's expert credentials could be harmed on a subject on which he has never claimed to be an expert.
As a layman he is entitled to an opinion. And, he is entitled to wonder out loud why a victim with as much freedom as Hornbeck had never said something. It's a reasonable quandary, and I suspect even genuine experts in the field have not fully explained the mystery.
I don't see any great harm done by BOR. and again, I don't see how this has any relevance to his credibility as a sincere crusader against child predators.
I think that you were right in the beginning NVH, it really is just you.
July 2, 2008, 6:28:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Point granted, nvh. I thought you were talking about O'Reilly being a pushover (as indicated in my 6:10). Since you were talking about Kasich, I apologise.
danny, your points are very valid in that O'Reilly markets his show as commentary and not simple hard news reporting. His job is to analyze the reporting.
July 2, 2008, 6:36:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
Yes, I take this issue very seriously.I've seen the shame and the pain close up.I didn't just work with rich white wanna be's from Long Island who thought they were a "daddy".
It is hard for me to see how BOR's expert credentials could be harmed on a subject on which he has never claimed to be an expert.
Then why would he offer a statement such as,
"called child sexual abuse accommodation syndrome. That is, the child is literally tortured into accepting his circumstance."
which,incidently,is factually wrong.And this is after he was called on his previous statement,
"The situation here for this kid looks to me to be a lot more fun than what he had under his old parents"
Which,as I stated earlier,is how a pedophile would justify thier behavior.
Granted,many were wondering why the child did not escape.But to my knowledge,Mr O'Reilly was the only one who was crass and insensitive enough to go on national television and,with no knowledge or effort to acquire knowledge, ask these accusatory questions out loud.
Yes,I am deeply troubled by Mr O'reillys handling of this issue.And frankly,I am puzzled that you do not.
July 2, 2008, 6:47:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
The Hornbeck think is over 6 months old. Why are we rehashing it? Does no one remember Greta challenging him when he originally said it? nvh, surely you didn't glance over that half of the interview? Also, as INB reiterated, Oprah saw his point. This is much ado about NOTHING.
July 2, 2008, 7:00:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
NVH,
Simply because you or I might use or misuse a technical term for something does not make us an expert. Nor, does stating or misstating a technical presuppose that we are claiming to be experts. BOR, like most pundits, comments on many fields on which they lay no claim to expertise.
I think the question is a good one, and it is one that should be asked: "Why don't kidnapped victims like Hornbeck make more of an effort to get away?" Some kidnap vicitims do make an effort and some don't. Is there some training that can be offered to children that would make them less susceptible to the "authority" of the kidnapper?
Maybe asking those kind of questions will generate answers that could actually be helpful to future kidnap victims and parents of kidnap victims in the future.
Again, you seem to think that BOR has caused some kind of great harm. I don't see it.
I also don't see how this effects his credibility as a sincere crusader against child predators. I am puzzled that you do..
July 2, 2008, 7:08:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply
david smawley
Just an observation, not wishing to make others mad here. The poll results show a great difference between the folks that post opinions here and the actual count. If you were to just read what is regularly commented upon, you would think that John Kasich and E.D.Hill would dominate the results.
Nothing could be further from the truth as Laura and Michelle dominate the vote count.
Lots of folks who visit here never post a comment, but when it comes time to choose a favorite they make their voices count.
July 2, 2008, 8:04:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
Danny,
I agree that BOR has been an asset for concerning children's rights. Nonetheless, in the case of his off the cuff comment, he was wrong. If you saw his comment on youtube, you may see how others viewed him as so callous. He didn't have any of the facts when he said it. My quote was what he said a few weeks later. He should have investigated first before harming a victim with his words, though not intentionally hurtful, potentially could have caused Hornbeck further damage. Once BOR knew the facts, he was appalled and had he investigated first, he never would have uttered them.
July 2, 2008, 8:19:09 PM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
"If you were to just read what is regularly commented upon, you would think that John Kasich and E.D.Hill would dominate the results."
I wondered that also. We'll have to wait for Johnny's word on the validity of the poll.
July 2, 2008, 8:30:37 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
NVH, What credentials do you have that allows you to decide what is factual and not factual between the two conditions, yet does not allow BOR to do exactly what you are doing?
July 2, 2008, 8:40:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply
david smawley
I think the poll numbers are quite valid, just not what some regular posters here want to see.
July 2, 2008, 8:42:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ImNotBlue
Ashley, I was just going to say that!
NVH had better have some direct experience in this area, or his whole argument is all wet.
July 2, 2008, 9:06:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
NVH had better have some direct experience in this area, or his whole argument is all wet.
ImNotBlue | 07.02.08 - 9:11 pm | #
Won't be the first time she's drowned herself.
Is she the one who hijacked the thread with the "hornbeck" far left talking point?
Not a peep about msnbc cooking the ratings books? Shocker!
July 2, 2008, 9:13:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I believe I've seen nvh say that he works in social services or counseling.
I'm gonna fess up- I voted twice in the poll for Michelle. :D I could vote a third time right now since I'm on yet another computer, my coffee table laptop. But I won't. This poll isn't much more secure than any other.
July 2, 2008, 9:16:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Sharm,
What evidence to we have that the boy was harmed? Was he really greatly traumatized by BOR's off the cuff comment?
Hornbeck was able to date a girl for several months while undergoing the trauma of being held away from his parents by a kidnapper. The boy seems resilient to me.
Now don't get me wrong. I do take his situation seriously. I am glad his ordeal is over and he his back with his loved ones (hopefully). But I think to say that he was traumatized or injured by BOR's comment is really stretching a point; if not being really melodramatic.
I too would like to know more about psychology of Hornbeck, a boy who was given the considerable freedom by his kidnapper;yet he did not try to escape.
I sincerely hope that Hornbeck is not so sensitive that he is severely traumatized by my curiosity,
July 2, 2008, 9:18:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I'm sure sharm, nvh, and other Fox haters were much more injured than Hornbeck by O'Reilly's comments.
July 2, 2008, 9:35:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
It is a simple matter to google Child Sexual Abuse Accomodation Syndrome.
It's not just me.Collier County,Fla Branch, Center for Missing and Exploited Children dropped Mr O'reilly as a speaker.
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/NewsEventServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=3059
July 2, 2008, 9:48:35 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I didn't say it wasn't just you.
July 2, 2008, 9:53:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Hey nvh, guess who lead the campaign to email the Collier County Florida Branch Center for Missing and Exploited Children about O'Reilly?
Three days before the Feb. 9th statement you linked, Olby did! Feb. 6th:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17015638/
July 2, 2008, 10:02:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
Well I took a look through the thread to see who was it that managed to derail the entire thread by gratuitously dragging in the all-but-ancient Hornbeck business. Surprise, it was nvh. But really, he couldn't have done it alone. He had a lot of help.
Maybe in tomorrow's thread we can have an all-day go-round over Charles Grodin's coverage of OJ Simpson. If that isn't too topical for nvh.
July 2, 2008, 10:05:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
That's what I was saying johnny! Sorry, I too got sucked in.
Fox Fan | 07.02.08 - 7:05 pm | #
July 2, 2008, 10:08:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
Danny,
I don't want to tick off Johnny. Just reread my comment looking for the word "potentially." I believe that those who excoriated BOR over it were more glad to see him err than they were to sympathize with S.H. I was sucked into an old story that should just die.
July 2, 2008, 10:12:53 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Your 8:24 was an accurate comment, sharm. Your 10:17 is also true.
July 2, 2008, 10:15:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
Discussion of BOR's comment should die here, not discussion of the victimization of children elsewhere.
July 2, 2008, 10:16:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
FF, upon what do you base this characterization of Sharm:
"I'm sure sharm, nvh, and other Fox haters ....
Fox Fan | 07.02.08 - 9:40 pm |".
I have known Sharm for almost two years and hate is not a trait that I associate with her at all. Additionally, any comments that she has made about Fox and their hosts/anchors has been reasonable whether pro or con.
I agree with her asessment that BOR went over the top when he first commented about Hornbeck and I think he realized it also and took steps to correct his error. I also agree with Sharm that BOR deserves much credit for his long time ongoing coverage of pediophilia and efforts to improve the system in dealing with the evil criminal creeps who far too often are treated with velvet gloves. He has also worked diligently to promote new laws to help protect their victims and recover them when kidnapped.
He made a mistake. That mistake does not olliterate all the good work he has done and is doing in this sphere.
I really don't think that our opinion qualifies us to be Fox haters.
July 2, 2008, 10:17:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Grammie, I was under the impression that sharm was a NHer from her comment, not knowing her history. I don't know her as you do, but I thought she was quite an agreeable NHer as my 10:20 shows.
My bad on including her in the list. Sorry sharm!
July 2, 2008, 10:21:50 PM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
Grammie,
I think you misread FF's comment. He was addressing me and then referred to the Fox haters. But I appreciate your comment. Or maybe I misread FF's comment and if so, you're still right!
July 2, 2008, 10:22:43 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Yep, Grammie was right, I'll put on the hat and go sit in the corner now...
July 2, 2008, 10:24:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
Sharm, the agreeable NHer. Now that is something I never expected.
July 2, 2008, 10:25:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
FF,
Will you be needing this?
http://tinyurl.com/5teywh
July 2, 2008, 10:33:49 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Uh, yeah. That's the one. lol
July 2, 2008, 10:36:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
Well, I say I'll quit and then have to add just one more item. I think this says it all about the Hornbeck matter:
"Michael Devlin, 41, pleaded guilty to kidnapping, sexually assaulting and attempting to murder Shawn Hornbeck, and received multiple life sentences. "
CASE CLOSED...
July 2, 2008, 10:39:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
I wonder if Griff will come back to Fox after McCain is elected? Press Secretary?
July 2, 2008, 11:26:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
It's not Griff. It's someone else (Greg). I thought I made a correction on that.
July 3, 2008, 12:01:57 AM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
Ouch. Back to the island for me.
July 3, 2008, 12:40:16 AM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
Greta's right about Olbermann.
"The oldest trick in the book."
And it has never worked.
July 3, 2008, 1:08:28 AM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
"I'm sure sharm, nvh, and other Fox haters were much more injured than Hornbeck by O'Reilly's comments."
I'm not going to reject the label of "Fox hater",though Fox disliker would be more accurate.I reserve ate for people who have done immense damage to life.However,it is troubling how easy it is for some to dismiss criticism by labeling the criticizer a "hater".
I reiterate my point,though I don't want to argue it,since it seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle.
Though the insult to Shawn Hornbeck is undeniable,IMO,my main point is that Mr O'Reilly's comments about Shawn having "a lot more fun" with his kidnapper reinforces the self-justification used by pedophiles,and thus potentially harms all sexual abuse victims.
You may disagree with my opinion,but please do me the honor of understanding what my opinion is.
July 3, 2008, 8:41:16 AM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
NVH,
I hope that all kidnappers of children will be so influenced by BOR's words that they will (a) not kill their victims; (b) give their victims an enormous amount of freedom; (c) feel that it is unnecessary to use coercion. I hope that these kidnappers will feel safe for this reason: Since they are giving their victims an enormous amount of fun, their "guest" will be immensely grateful and never betray them.
Yeah yeah I know that what I just said is a huge stretch, but then so is what you said.
July 3, 2008, 10:50:10 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
nvh,
In return then do others the kindness of understanding that the defenses here of O'Reilly do not seem based upon the argument that he was entirely right and that he said nothing of any consequence.
July 3, 2008, 11:20:43 AM EDT – Like – Reply
sharm
What Bill said was that S.H. put up with the abuse as a sick trade off for freedoms he wouldn't have otherwise had. What Bill found out later was that after kidnapping Shawn, Devlin raped him, drove him away in his truck to a deserted place, proceeded to choke him until Shawn promised him anything if he would let him live. He was freakin' 11 years old! NVH is way off base here using this case to prove that BOR hurt all victims. Bill knew he was wrong. My beef with Bill was that he spoke without facts in a way that demeaned the victim and when he knew the facts, he didn't go far enough in his subsequent statement, as in, "I am sorry, Shawn." It would have been the decent thing to do. But as Grammie said, that action doesn't override all the good work he has done on behalf of child victims.
NVH, you were dead wrong to imply that Bill made a few lame attempts to knock a few lenient judges after the criticism he received. You don't have the facts either. It seems you are just sticking to an agenda: Fox is bad.
July 3, 2008, 11:31:34 AM EDT – Like – Reply
notveryhow
danny | 07.03.08 - 10:55 am |
The vast majority of cases of child sexual abuse take place in the home,and the victim knows the perpetrator,a father,brother,uncle or family friend.You are aware of this, aren't you.And it was these cases I was addressing.
Cecelia | 07.03.08 - 11:25 am |
That is all I was seeking was an acknowledgement that in this particular case,BOR was wrong. Though some seemed willing to acknowledge that,others seemed to be mounting a defence of "he did nothing wrong".
"I may have missed something, but I've never heard BOR say anything about Shawn Hornbeck that could make him lose even an ounce of credibility."
I apologize if I misconstrued statements such as this.
sharm | 07.03.08 - 11:36 am |
I have heard from more than one abuser say that "She didn't run away" as a way of justifying their behavior.
It may be a reach on my part to assume that BOR did actual damage to anyone,but his comments were just so very wrong that it makes me quite angry.
As for BOR's work with children,yes,I am unfamiliar.But don't assume that my agenda on this has anything to do with Fox.It doesn't.
July 3, 2008, 4:14:19 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
NVH,
Whatever. . . it is still a stretch.
July 3, 2008, 5:46:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply
