Wednesday Links & Open Thread
Latest cable news links [updated through the day]:
Son's health crisis inspired Bret Baier's philanthropy [pdf].
Tuesday's numbers.
CNN "expansion" camouflaging cutbacks?
Kinky Kiran?
NY Times / MSNBC disclosure issue emerges again.
Maddow move: Keith runs MSNBC? Gawker, Bercovici, Kurtz. Gilbert, New York. Blogs: The Cable Game, TV Squad, Greenlee Gazette, Crossed Pond, Newsbusters, Carpetbagger Report, Radio Equalizer, Chickaboomer. Audio: John Gibson.
Hotline quotes.
What about Dan?
Denver dining.
Martin Savidge to PBS.
Weekly ranker.
J$P 24-Hour Poll:
Use our valuable bandwidth to post your comments on any and all cable news topics in today's open thread. Standard rules apply. fox news cable news
Greg
The Pew about the media was revealing. Fox is tied among news organizations for the most respondents who answer "I trust little to nothing of what they report", and CNN ranked ahead of them in most trusted.
What a surprise. The polling among Democrats was also a gem. Democrats didn't trust Fox and Republicans did.
August 20, 2008, 2:03:36 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Greg
Alan Colmes' performance the other night interviewing David Zucker was pretty pathetic. Anothing glowing example of why Fox hired him. He set up the interview by prefacing "Haha, you used to be a Democrat!" and then proceeded to ask him "How did this happen!" after pointing out that he was now a Republican.
He's done that every time he's interviewed Zucker, and anyone else who "used" to be a Democrat. Can you imagine Hannity doing that to an ex-Republican? It's a pathetic softball.
August 20, 2008, 2:28:19 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mike C.
I'm a day late, but yesterday on "F&F," and in portions of the conservative blogosphere (I'm not lumping FNC with conservatives by listing them consecutively), are making Cris Collinsworth out to be some anti-American NBC far-left Andrea Mitchell type. Cris' crime? In an interview with Kobe Bryant, after Kobe expressed his deep patriotism, he had the gall to imply that to some people, patriotism is a bad thing and out of style. Not even NBC Sports (except for Keith Olbermann) is immune to far-left/in-the-tank-reportage criticism these days. Are we going to make golf analyst/course reporter Roger Maltbie a far-left anti-American zealot, too? Dan Hicks? Al Trautwig? Al Michaels? John Madden? Ted Robinson? Give me a break! Save your ammunition for the news department. They're the ones that deserve it! [Gosh darn]!
August 20, 2008, 3:34:17 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Ferril
There is no point in watching Hannity and Colmes anymore as the empty headed Colmes knows only to interrupt, overtalk, and raise mindless arguments.
August 20, 2008, 4:05:27 AM EDT – Like – Reply
vstol
Mike,
Even though Maltbie hits the ball from right to left, linking Rog to the words "far-left anti-American zealot" is beyond laughable.
And Dan Hicks and his lovely wife Hannah Storm, are busy working and raising the girls and could care less about partisan politics, though Dan does do the best Tom Brokow impersonation I've ever heard.
August 20, 2008, 5:11:35 AM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
Monday's Obama doc was scrupilously fair. Last night's McCain doc was I thought tougher than the Obama doc. Interesting.
BTW, Laura fills in for O'Reilly for the rest of this week.
August 20, 2008, 10:39:05 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Indeed, FNC commended itself well with these profiles.
August 20, 2008, 11:27:52 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Danny
Are the Obama and the McCain specials online anywhere? Yesterday, I searched for the Obama special on line without success. I am surprised that I could not find it on the FNC website.
August 20, 2008, 12:22:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
JC in OC
How do I vote for less than The Verdict but more than Obamann?
August 20, 2008, 12:30:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ImNotBlue
I asked over at TVN, but you folks are worth asking too:
Am I the only one who thinks that if Olbermann and Maddow got together and had a kid, it would very closely resemble Ted Allen (host of "Food Detectives" on the Food Network, and former guy from "Queer Eye")?
Here's a picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tedallen.jpg
He looks like a Photoshop of KO and Maddow smooshed together! Am I the only one who has noticed this?
August 20, 2008, 1:28:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
What a hoot....Gibson saying Keith is biased...He's obviously forgot his days at FNC and his very one sided take on things...And we all remember his laughable war on Xmas.
August 20, 2008, 2:01:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Major Reisman
HaggisFarmer | 08.20.08 - 2:06 pm
Are you implying that what Gibson said is not true?
August 20, 2008, 2:31:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
I don't think he is. I think he's just attacking Gibson rather than addressing the substance.
August 20, 2008, 2:32:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ImNotBlue
Haggis... so Keith ISN'T biased?
Oh, and the difference... is that Gibson talked about the stuff being HIS opinions, and then asked people to debate him. Olbermann, on the other hand, talks as though it were 100% fact, not opinion... and only explains things from HIS point-of-view.
But I'm sure you already know all this. You just choose not to remember or understand it.
August 20, 2008, 2:33:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
ImNotBlue....Keith doesn't make the claim he's "fair and balanced"...Unlike FNC.
I'd like to take the opportunity to thank Keith for naming the East Coast Avengers as a WPitW, for their outrageous song about Bill...Much as I dislike O'reilly I wish him no harm...I'm sure everyone here would agree with Keith nominating them.
August 20, 2008, 2:47:50 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
Are you implying that what Gibson said is not true?
Major Reisman | 08.20.08 - 2:36 pm |
I never said that...I said he was biased...There is a difference.
Edited By Siteowner
August 20, 2008, 3:02:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
But the subject was Keith. Do you think Keith is politically biased?
August 20, 2008, 3:07:19 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
But the subject was Keith.
johnny dollar | Homepage | 08.20.08 - 3:12 pm |
The point is...A blatantly biased presenter was trying to say Keith was biased...That's funny.
"Do you think Keith is politically biased?"
I don't know what Keith's political leanings are...But Countdown leans left...You can't argue against that...But what's the difference...O'reilly/Gibson(if he ever appears on tv again) lean right...But at least Keith doesn't use the laughable phrase "fair and balanced"
August 20, 2008, 3:22:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
But Keith does use the phrase "I am not politically biased". Is that not laughable??
August 20, 2008, 3:27:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply
david smawley
Rush Limbaugh politically incorrect quote of the day: "I feel sorry for Dan Abrams because he's being replaced by someone who possesses a higher level of testosterone than he does."
August 20, 2008, 3:32:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
J$...let's not quibble over semantics here.
Countdown - leans Left
The factor/Big Story - lean Right
It's as simple as that.
August 20, 2008, 3:39:30 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
david smawley | 08.20.08 - 3:37 pm |
I wouldn't expect anything else but a homophobic response from the loon Limbaugh...Wonder why he's so scared of strong women.
J$...I know this won't get posted...But it had to be said.
August 20, 2008, 3:46:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
You brought up semantics. You singled out Gibson because of the phrase "fair and balanced". Now I'm asking you if you believe Keith is "not politically biased", since that's the phrase he uses to describe himself.
You stepped into this semantic stew. I just want to see if you have a double standard or not.
August 20, 2008, 3:47:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
J$...I've admitted Countdown leans Left in my eyes...What else can I say...I'm just waiting for you to admit The factor/Big Story - lean Right...Come on surprise me
August 20, 2008, 3:51:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
I'm letting your Limbaugh comment thru but let's not get off on a Limbaugh sidetrack. I have spoken.
Haggis, you're the one who brought up the phrase. Now I'm trying to see if you apply the same standard when it's (to paraphrase your terminology) an anti-Semitic left wing loon (i.e. Keith). Is his claim of "not politically biased" just as laughable, or isn't it? If you won't answer just say so, so I don't have to keep asking.
August 20, 2008, 3:56:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Danny
There is no equivalence between Bill and Keith.
First, Bill is not as conservative as Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity, but Keith is about as Liberal as you can get.
Secondly, Bill often has guests on his show who disagree with him. Often, these guests are paid professional pundits under contract to Fox news.
Keith almost never has anyone on his show who disagrees with him. Therefore he is free to spew misinformation gleaned from liberal blogs with no one to challenge him.
August 20, 2008, 3:58:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
J$...When has Keith said this: "not politically biased"? he certainly doesn't use the phrase every night....In fact I've never heard him say it(but I'm sure you can point me to where he has said it...An anti Keith blog won't do for evidence)....On the other hand the "fair and balanced" phrase gets used nearly nightly over on the factor.
August 20, 2008, 4:11:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
OK, I'll take it you won't answer the question. So that topic is closed.
August 20, 2008, 4:13:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply
John
The ideal scenario with MSNBC's lineup change -- or at the very least, the funniest -- would be if Madow took viewers not from Fox or CNN but from "Countdown", and liberals who are tired of Keith's Howard Beale-like rants and frat house snark and wanted a little more respectable and restrained host voicing their core beliefs.
Think Olby would be able to mentally handle it if his show was not only passed by Madow in the ratings, but that she suddenly became the new liberal TV host darling of the big media outlets and Keith was suddenly seen as yesterday's news? I don't think internally at MSNBC it will be very pretty if Olby started seeing his gap with O'Reilly widen while Rachel was more competitive with Hannity & Colmes.
August 20, 2008, 4:13:43 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
I agree with Johnny. We'd do better if we focused on cable news.
Heavily Edited (to prevent a closed topic from opening again) By Siteowner
August 20, 2008, 4:23:49 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
.... if Madow took viewers not from Fox or CNN but from "Countdown", and liberals who are tired of Keith's Howard Beale-like rants and frat house snark and wanted a little more respectable and restrained host voicing their core beliefs.
Yet, it is frequently intimated here that Democrats are liberals, and it is proclaimed by the equivalent of Rightist Blog Angels, Archangels and All the Company of Heaven that more Democrats watch FNC than MSNBC. So, there would be a fallacy in that analysis, I should think. If more Democrats, i.e. more Liberals, are watching FNC than MSNBC, how would they be stolen from MSNBC?
August 20, 2008, 4:29:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
[Introducing a new feature: J$ annotations!]
FNC report Ohio Congresswoman had died, when she hadn't.
[As did Cleveland Plain Dealer, Associated Press, and CNN]
Outrageous....Another reason why you can't take FNC seriously....
[Do you take the AP seriously? Does this mean you don't take CNN seriously any more? Grow up!]
Remember when Carol Cameron incorrectly reported the name of someone who supposedly bombed a Clinton election office...
[No, and it won't be discussed in this thread]
If reports are correct...CNN were also a bit quick of the mark.
[Outrageous! Another reason why you can't take CNN seriously]
Edited By Siteowner
August 20, 2008, 4:30:36 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
HaggisFarmer | 08.20.08 - 4:35 pm |
I don't remember posting this....What's going on J$?
August 20, 2008, 4:37:09 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ImNotBlue
J$, you can add MSNBC.com to the list of places that reported her death.
I saw that as a "breaking news" headline earlier.
August 20, 2008, 4:41:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
Outrageous! You can't take MSNBC seriously!!
August 20, 2008, 4:42:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
johnny dollar | Homepage | 08.20.08 - 4:47 pm |
LOL...I admit it's outrageous that ALL these news outlets reported a falsehood.
But I'm correct about the Cameron part...It wasn't a bombing but a hostage taking.
August 20, 2008, 4:46:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mike C.
I'm extremely late replying to vstol, but I was being hyperbolic in throwing in names of NBC Sports personalities. My point was it's ridiculous for "F&F" (yesterday) and some conservative blogs (at least, their comment threads) are going to insinuate that Cris Collinsworth had some far-left ideological motives in telling Kobe Bryant (in a follow-up question) that being patriotic is out of style in some [far-left] circles merely because he said it on NBC. I can't say that BOR would do this, but I can already hear Jim Pinkerton making this correlation in his rapid-speaking voice.
So, I know that none of those personalities I listed (Maltbie, Hicks, Michaels, Madden, etc.) are far-left people in the spirit of Andrea Mitchell and Chris Matthews (to name a couple). I was just using hyperbole.
Okay, I'm done. Back to other topics.
August 20, 2008, 5:01:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
Forget about the inept media and lets remember a real person is seriously ill in hospital here.
My best wishes go out to Congresswoman Tubbs Jones...And I hope she recovers.
August 20, 2008, 5:08:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
Nice to see Keith getting excellent numbers for Tuesday night...Well over a million viewers.
August 20, 2008, 5:24:51 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
Bret Baier is an amazing man, a true gentleman. Thank God his child has survived this terrible ordeal.
I hope Baier gets Special Report full-time.
On another note, great numbers for Tuesday! As usual, FNC crushes the opposition. Well done Fox. "Our man" Ailes deserves those big bucks he's receiving!
August 20, 2008, 5:27:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
Thanks for the reminder about the Rt. Hon. Lady from Ohio. A real class act, who never met anyone who wasn't her friend .... She and Eleanor Holmes Norton were guest commentators on CNN during the primary. Tubbs Jones for Clinton and Holmes Norton for Obama. Tubbs Jones prefaced a question to Holmes Norton with "As a beautiful Black lady, you know ...." Holmes Norton replied, "I'm Black, but I've never been beautiful." That was followed by, but your figure, your complexion, your spirit .... Best moment on television in years!
August 20, 2008, 5:36:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
Ashley | 08.20.08 - 5:32 pm |
Ashley....Bigger doesn't mean better
I'm sure our man Ailes is being handsomely rewarded for his efforts...I'll let you decide what I mean by that.
August 20, 2008, 5:37:09 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
> Nice to see Keith getting excellent numbers for Tuesday night
> Bigger doesn't mean better
'Nuff said.
August 20, 2008, 5:40:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
"....Bigger doesn't mean better"
Tell that to your man Keith "Check-o-Slovakia" Olbermann.
August 20, 2008, 5:42:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
J$...Nice spin.
August 20, 2008, 5:42:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
John
I should think. If more Democrats, i.e. more Liberals, are watching FNC than MSNBC, how would they be stolen from MSNBC?
Mark | 08.20.08 - 4:34 pm | #
Easy enough to explain -- it would be one viewing hour on the same network stealing numbers from another viewing hour. People now tuning into MSNBC at 8 p.m. EDT for "Countdown" opt to watch CNN or some other channel that hour, and don't switch over until 9 p.m. to watch Madow, because she provides them with the same liberal viewpoints as Keith, but with far less sanctimony, misogyny or hypocracy.
So MSNBC's ratings don't go down overall, they go sideways, as former "Countdown" viewers migrate to a different time. It's a net neutral for the network overall, but it would be a net loss for Keith (and even if you assume a net gain in viewership the scenario is possible, since Olby's actions between January and June in attacking Hillary really angered a lot of her supporters. It will take a long, long time to woo those people back, and while Madow has been on with Olbermann, she doesn't have the same anti-Hillary stigma attached. So MSNBC could gain overall viewership, but Keith would still be in a dither is his ratings stayed the same while Rachel's went past his in the Nielsen housholds).
August 20, 2008, 6:00:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
Nielsen housholds
John | 08.20.08 - 6:05 pm |
Is there any breakdown of Right/Left leanings in these households online?
August 20, 2008, 6:12:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
John: Did you write the Internal Revenue Code? I follow your analysis, but I'm not sure it leads anywhere. A gut level guess: Olbermann and Maddow will feed each other very nicely, indeed. A Bob Newhart to a Mary Tyler Moore. "Rachel doesn't come on for 45 minutes, but I'll go ahead and turn on MSNBC." "I didn't plan to watch Rachel, but I was already on Olbermann." I think we have a very nice synergy here, not that it will appeal to all or most, but, I suspect, agoodly number.
August 20, 2008, 6:35:25 PM EDT – Like – Reply
All News is Fixed on Fox
But does any one in here know what the Number one tivo show on cable Prime time is Its Countdown, so maybe these rating that Ashley and Johnny talk about might not mean as much as they think, Waiting for you to spin this one
August 20, 2008, 6:43:20 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Olby Sucks
I can't wait for maddow to shove olby to the back burner, where he belongs.
August 20, 2008, 6:46:30 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
> Number one tivo show on cable Prime time is Its Countdown,
For your information, the ratings include viewing off the dvr. So I'm afraid the numbers mean exactly what they say.
August 20, 2008, 6:52:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
Surfing the newsdial, MSNBC doing Olympics, Fox discussing McCain and Obama, and CNN finishing its Cafferty Files bashing the Bush admin on Georgia, then doing a hard-hitting news segment on Obamas "sniffles".
"But does any one in here know what the Number one tivo show on cable Prime time is Its Countdown,"
All News is Fixed on Fox | Homepage | 08.20.08 - 6:48 pm | #
Good to know, you should get that out to Keith "C" O's advertisers, they'll be glad to know that more viewers of Countdown are speeding past the commercials.
August 20, 2008, 7:02:43 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
At least we're not shoving people under the bus, anymore. A great improvement!
August 20, 2008, 7:05:25 PM EDT – Like – Reply
HaggisFarmer
O/T...But did anyone watch the BMX racing at the Olympics last night? I've never watched it before....But I can guarantee you, it's top notch entertainment.
August 20, 2008, 7:22:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Olby Sucks
Why isn't olbermann on the comedy channel where he belongs? I don't see how anyone could take him serious. Carnival barking/hysteria followed by Bush/McCain bashing followed by a 30 minute obamamercial followed by utter nonsense. Countdown in a nutshell.
August 20, 2008, 8:11:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
The Nielsen ratings include live+same day viewers. That means my DVR'd Red Eye episodes count! Pity that show isn't on at a better hour.
August 20, 2008, 8:35:49 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
And, when was the last time you watched "Countdown" to offer such a synposis? You haven't seen it in 3 years? Shocked!
August 20, 2008, 8:41:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
> The Nielsen ratings include live+same day viewers.
Correct. As I understand it, any program watched within a 24-hour window of its broadcast time is counted in the ratings already. So an 8:00 pm showing is counted as long as it is viewed before 8:00 pm the following night.
August 20, 2008, 8:47:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply
SteveMG
I don't see how anyone could take him serious
Well, no one should. He's a comedian/entertainer with political bits thrown in to give him the veneer of being a real journalist.
To wit: Name me one piece of investigative journalism or original reporting that he's produced over the past 5 years?
Just one.
His claim, for example, that Bush was given the power by Congress to arrest US citizens and detain them without giving habeas rights has been proven to be just asburdly false.
We just had in the recent years two Supreme Court decisions that never touched on that issue because the power wasn't there.
It was all nonsense disseminated by Olbermann and his leftists guests like Jonathan Turley and the absurd John Dean.
His popularity comes from liberals frustrated that their side couldn't come up with an alterantive to Limbaugh. He's, in effect, a left version of Rush.
And no one, absolutely no one, thinks Limbaugh is a journalist.
August 20, 2008, 8:51:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I haven't watched Countdown in full in 30 years. Can't stomach more than 3 minutes; it's a train wreck of burning bias.
I know you were replying to OS Mark, just saying...
August 20, 2008, 8:55:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply
All News is Fixed on Fox
Johnny Tivo also had its own ratings, I know I have tivo, and how many nielsen families are democrats compared to republicans , do we have that number , hmm
August 20, 2008, 8:59:54 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
If you don't trust the Nielsen ratings, which include tivo viewers, then you can always go to some other company for ratings. There's... well, you could try... um... oh wait. There is no other company that measures cable news ratings!
If your claim is that Countdown is popular among tivo users (who are themselves a minority of dvr users, who are a minority of all viewers) then you are on solid ground. But it doesn't change the overall numbers since tivo viewers are already counted.
August 20, 2008, 9:05:52 PM EDT – Like – Reply
All News is Fixed on Fox
If you say countdown is a train wreck then Fox and Friends is a nuclear bomb.
August 20, 2008, 9:09:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply
All News is Fixed on Fox
Why has no Fox Lovers in here commented on Greg's very first comment, is it true, do people not trust fox,,are you in the cone of silence, does the truth hurt is fox really not Fair and Balanced.
August 20, 2008, 9:14:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Waiting for you to spin this one
All News is Fixed on Fox | Homepage | 08.20.08 - 6:48 pm
Who's spinning now, ANIFOF? You are measuring a much smaller audience.
August 20, 2008, 9:15:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Danny
What about Arbitron? Don't they do television diaries?
A diary would not be as accurate because people lie or have faulty memories. Nielsen, I understand, monitors people as they actually watch shows.
You would hope that Nielsen's panel is representative of the population, since so much rides on their ratings.
Not making a point. Just asking out of curiosity.
August 20, 2008, 9:16:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
All News is Fixed on Fox | Homepage | 08.20.08 - 9:14 pm | #
I never watch F&F since I'm always at work when it's on. Thanks for your fair and balanced opinion of the show.
August 20, 2008, 9:25:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
To my knowledge, Arbirton only does radio ratings. I don't know if they're still using diaries because they did have 'people meters' similar to Nielsen's, but in this case for radio. They even developed a portable version so they could track radio listening when people are away from home.
August 20, 2008, 9:25:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply
All News is Fixed on Fox
Boy the Oreilly factor was fair and balanced tonight, man Laura Ingraham calls it right down the middle, she is the most fair and balanced newsperson on Fox she make Hannity look like a Democrat.
August 20, 2008, 9:29:51 PM EDT – Like – Reply
All News is Fixed on Fox
Well FF I could have said the most in the backpocket of Mccain show then, is that a better analogy
August 20, 2008, 9:31:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
All News is Fixed on Fox | Homepage | 08.20.08 - 9:34 pm | #
ANIFOF, I noticed how Laura interviewed a Clinton campaign person, an Obama supporter, and an Islamic book writer.
How biased!
August 20, 2008, 9:39:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Olby Sucks
And, when was the last time you watched "Countdown" to offer such a synposis? You haven't seen it in 3 years? Shocked!
Mark | 08.20.08 - 8:46 pm | #
Don't you claim on a regular basis that you "rarely" watch olbermann? Tell me where I was wrong in my "synopsis," if you can.
August 20, 2008, 10:32:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Olby Sucks
If you say countdown is a train wreck then Fox and Friends is a nuclear bomb.
All News is Fixed on Fox | Homepage | 08.20.08 - 9:14 pm | #
When was the laast time F&F was censured by the ADL?
August 20, 2008, 10:41:39 PM EDT – Like – Reply
All News is Fixed on Fox
Yes she did but her interview was so biased, she asked all Doocy like questions to her.
August 20, 2008, 11:01:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
... haven't watched Countdown in full in 30 years. Can't stomach more than 3 minutes; it's a train wreck of burning bias.
Yes, but you have enough discretion not to review his body of work. If you did, it would be akin to my writing my memoirs of my role in the Coolidge presidency. Pure fiction.
August 20, 2008, 11:14:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Olby Sucks
Mark | 08.20.08 - 11:19 pm | #
So, you can't tell me where I was wrong. Shocker!
August 21, 2008, 12:37:24 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
So, sorry, Jeff, but book club meeting last night .... My wife really wanted to go, and I accompanied her. Actually we had a very lively discussion of Flaubert's Salammbô.
To matters at hand, the point is not whether you're right or wrong. Indeed, I don't know. The point is: You don't know. You couldn't. You are basing your information on thrid party accounts, hearsay, much of it from Olbermann hate sites.
When the subject is cable news, your view necessarily presumes that you watched the program or some rebroadcast of it. That is a condition precedent to your participation. I seldom comment on Olbermann, because I seldom watch him. When I do comment, I have watched him. The same applies to my discussion of CNN or FNC programs or personalities. And, the responsible participants herein, the Mike's, the Fox Fan's and even the Cecelia's (when she is on topic), and many, many others, bring that personal experience of viewing with them. They recognize the obligation of being informed. Of course, informed people don't always agree, and that is what makes this site and any site lively, interesting and useful. Merely repeating secondary sources doesn't add much, if anything.
August 21, 2008, 10:57:17 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Speaking as an informed observer Countdown,... yes... O.S., you're entirely correct. That is precisely the layout of the show and it does seem the stuff of Comedy Central.
The basic formula of most tv show episodes, whether ER or Friends, are easily postulated without having to watch a single one, let alone a show with well known segments, such as Countdown.
You don't need to actually witness somethings to easily ascertain how they went down. Why anyone could easily conclude who was most unctuous at the last gathering of Mark's missus' book club.
August 21, 2008, 12:22:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
I certainly don't understand the low regard for first hand observation and informed analysis. They seem to be an important hallmark of any participatory democracy which touts a more-or-less free media. And, as one of the more formidable posters on an Olbermann hate site, who seems to be equivocating a bit as to whether she actually watches "Countdown," you no doubt understand if I say that I am not at all certain you have provided an informed, objective analysis. Perhaps, I need to bite the bullet and watch a show all the way through. I'll report my findings. We won't necessarily agree, and, in fact, I am sure you will make a point to disagree, but we will at least have the information out there for discerning readers.
August 21, 2008, 1:01:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
There's the answer he should have sent you. O.S.
August 21, 2008, 1:44:58 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
BTW, Mark,
That's twice now today that I've read you characterizing Olbermann Watch as being a "hate site". (You're well aware of all the connotations of that term.)
You spent a hell of a lot of time at a site which critiques a man you say you care nothing about, often defended him from Johnny's characterization of his words and actions on Countdown.
Perhaps, you should have taken the advice you're dispensing now.
August 21, 2008, 2:37:51 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
We can talk about this at the parish's White Elephant Bring and Buy on Saturday, Cecelia. I don't want to take up Johnny's space for withered tit-for-tat.
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I don't have a good sense of FNC's polls as to quality and accuracy, but that was a most interesting and surprising one today. Some unexpected strengths and weaknesses for both candidates. I've been drawn to the (MS)NBC/WSJ poll of late, but I enjoyed reading this one.
August 21, 2008, 3:10:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
It seems that a high regard for first hand observation is either an "Important hallmark of any participatory Democracy" or a "white elephant" depending upon whether you're an Olbermann critic or the critic of Olbermann Watch critics...
August 21, 2008, 3:40:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
vstol
Cecelia,
Thanks. You beat me to it. I don't contribute at "hate sites." Even Newshounds stated goal of exposing political bias in the media. albeit it limiting their criticism to a single network. is a noble endeavor. The fact that they often display that which they object to and hateful comments are common place, I do not consider it a "hate site."
August 21, 2008, 3:41:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
I am with you, vstol. I don't consider NH a hate site, nor do I consider this site a hate site. I tend to think that, come January, hate sites will cease to be en vogue, except for a mere handful of the extreme stations. A wave of civility, respectability and tolerance will soon engulf us. That will be a happy day.
August 21, 2008, 4:04:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Well, Vstol, you're not a spinmeister. That's the difference.
August 21, 2008, 4:26:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Mark, hey....if Obama can do the water into wine thing, me and Steve Doocy will talk about him using quasi-religious imagery too.,,,
August 21, 2008, 4:29:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Mark
When you talk to Doocy, ask him why Gretchen had a purple back-drop (wearing a purple blouse, which didn't work out too well and for which I would assume someone was canned when you think that a white back-drop would have put us all in an iris or lilac state-of-mind), Kilmeade had a red and blue backdrop (which was effective but not color-coordinated as he was wearing a dark suit, as is custom), and he, Doocy (wearing a cream-colored suit and faded olive tie) had no backdrop (when a peach-colored back drop might well have put us in the mood for peche melba garnished with a peach leaf).
See what one can do when he or she actually watches cable news? Admittedly, I had the sound muted so I could hear the bull frogs calling their mates, but, I saw.
August 21, 2008, 4:58:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
It's good that you make sure you can hear in case she calls.
August 21, 2008, 5:25:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply
