'My Blood Is Absolutely Boiling!'

J$P Video! E.D. Hill is outraged at the mutilation murders of two US soldiers.

From Fox & Friends, June 21 2006:

Warning: includes specific descriptions of bodily desecration [QuickTime video]:

posted: Wed - June 21, 2006 at 09:35 AM j$p send

Kevin
Way to be E.D! Speak truth to power!
June 21, 2006, 5:58:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply

josh
Thank you for saying this....
June 21, 2006, 7:16:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Jar Jar Binks
Two wrongs don't make a right, Ms. Hill. Her own "outrage" is so fake and contrived.
June 21, 2006, 10:43:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Ann Coulters [deleted]
Message deleted for rules violation [language]

Edited By Siteowner
June 21, 2006, 11:02:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Wang Dang Doodle
I sent this letter to my newspaper today. I am still awaiting statements of condemnation from the organizations shown below. Where the hell are they? Have any of YOU seen the outrage at the butchering of our uniformed soldiers by those that condemn US for placement of panties on prisoners heads? Where are the riots??? Where are the mass protestation rallies?? Hypocrites, every one of them!! And they wonder why we laugh in disbelief at them. They are beyond ridiculous, they are pathetic!!

Dear Sir/Madam:

In an effort to compile a collection of condemnation statements about the treatment/desecration of the two US soldiers by al-Qaeda in Iraq, as of 6-21-06; 7:43 am CDT, I have found the following statements of condemnation from major national/international groups, many of whom have no trouble finding a voice and issuing statements when they feel offended:

C.A.I.R: Reserved space
Awaiting statement of condemnation

Muslim Association Of America: Reserved space
Awaiting statement of condemnation

Amnesty International: Reserved space
Awaiting statement of condemnation

Human Rights Watch: Reserved space
Awaiting statement of condemnation

International Red Cross/Red Crescent: Reserved space
Awaiting statement of condemnation

Islamic Society of North America (ISNA): Reserved space
Awaiting statement of condemnation

United Nations: Reserved space
Awaiting statement of condemnation

And, to those persons who complained - loudly - about the treatment of combatants held by the U.S. at Abu-Ghraib or "Gitmo", I would sincerely like to know how the disemboweling, eye-gouging, mutilation and decapitation of United States soldiers compares to the placement of women's panties on the heads of prisoners? Where is the outrage?

Disclaimer: If any of these organizations has issued a statement of condemnation, I missed it being reported by the Main-Stream-Media.

Sincerely,
June 21, 2006, 11:11:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply

odanny
Soooooo...........is this bimbo who is saying "where's Murtha" somehow lessening the severity of what happened in Haditha?

Is this not anothe chickenhawk attempt to hide behind the murders of two Americans by the wingnuts and somehow justify actions that, if proven true, are indefensible?

Murtha knows how escalting atrocities happen in long, guerilla fights, he was in two wars, how many was this loudmouth bitch in? How about the other Bush cheerleaders? How about Cheney and Bush when Vietnam was going on?

These Republicans, and their mindless, droning cheerleaders faking moral outrage, make me sick to my stomach.
June 22, 2006, 1:56:49 AM EDT – Like – Reply

Convert
G.I.'s Butchered Alive, more like it.

Is E.D.'s book still avalable?
June 22, 2006, 4:38:32 AM EDT – Like – Reply

tbogg
Since the enlistment age has been bumped to 42, she still has a chance to go play American Avenger in Iraq, otherwise she is deeply unserious about the war and is just showboating for the goobers.
June 22, 2006, 12:48:11 PM EDT – Like – Reply

fulldroolcup
Jar Jar Binks: you, sir, are a moral imbecile, one who equates possible-yet-unproven violations of military discipline on our side, with standard terrorist "policy", which is to utterly ignore the rules of war, to make war on civilians, to torture and murder uniformed combatants, etc. You manifest a deep hatred for our military and our country, equating us with islamo-fascist terrorists. You make me, and millions of other Americans, puke.

tbogg: "showboating for the goobers", eh? Yep, another mindless leftist elistist who cannot marshal facts or make a rational argument, and instead spews ad hominems and sneers at those he disagrees with. You wouldn't last five minutes on a high school debating team with "logic" like that.

odanny: just where are you getting the FACTS you use to claim that what
purportedly happened at Haditha did in fact occur? Just where do you get this bogus idea that only military veterans can pre-judge atrocities without knowing the facts? And if military service is a pre-requisite for being knowlwedgable about military policy, then why does our Constitution put the military in the hands of civilians? What army did Bill Clinton serve in? What about the veterans who support the War effort? Seems like you lefties use your line of thinking ONLY when veterans are anti-war. What chickenbleep illogic and hypocrisy.
June 22, 2006, 1:15:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark
Why are any of you upset about people being mutilated in a war? Mines don't mutilate people? Bullets aren't murder? I know..."rules" of war, right. Oh, the integrity. If you can't take the heat, stay out of Dubya's kitchen!

And before one of the faithful accuses me of being incapable of marshalling a rational argument (I realize I'm combining accusations here), or something other challenge that would require me to prolong my interaction with this site, let me pre-empt you by saying that I'm so not interested in having a logical, rational argument about this...if I were I most definitely wouldn't be looking for it here.

Lastly, let me also reveal that I do indeed manifest a deep hatred for "our" military and every human instinct that makes it necessary.

OK, thanks! Sigh...I feel the teeeeniest bit better.
June 22, 2006, 1:41:25 PM EDT – Like – Reply

James Smith
fulldroolcup,

Your personal attack on me is regrettable, unfortunate, and inaccurate.

I have a deep respect for the U.S. military. I love this country and the values that make it the best in the world.

That includes our historic prohibition against torture. To dismiss torture being done in the name of our side whilst condemning it being done in the name of terrorism is the height of flippancy and hypocrisy.
June 22, 2006, 2:03:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Jar Jar Binks
The above comment was me, James Smith (aka Jar Jar Binks).
June 22, 2006, 2:06:37 PM EDT – Like – Reply

johnny dollar
A reminder: we do not like personal attacks here. Say what you will about anyone's arguments, but confine it to substance, not name calling. Thank you so much.
June 22, 2006, 2:13:49 PM EDT – Like – Reply

The Machine
Is it a personal attack to note that these posters are completely inhuman when they attempt to equate what happened to those two US fighting men with the collateral damage of war?

They claim some sort of weird moral highground that only the devil would understand.

.
June 22, 2006, 2:34:53 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark
Ah...collateral damage. Yes, I guess it depends on how holy or revered you consider the body to be. To me, any sort of human-inflicted destructive mortal damage to the body of someone I loved (US fighting man or not) would be considered desecration.

And no, I don't think that's a personal attack. But I'm totally human! Honest!
June 22, 2006, 2:48:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply

fulldroolcup
James Smith: I did not "dismiss" torture on our side. I specifically spoke of the issue of Haditha, which is an unproven accusation of unlawful murder of civilians. I said that IF TRUE that would be a violation of military discipline. Obviously, if so, it should be punished --- just as the Abu Gharib perps were.

I now ask you to try to wrap a working neuron around this conundrum: why do you equate purported LAPSES of discipline with the terrorst's POLICY of torture and terror against innocent civilians? When was the last time you heard about Al Qaeda disciplining its members for violating the "rules of war"? When was the last time Al Jezeera charged Al Qaeda with committing war crimes? How many tapes of you seen of our soldiers beheading civilians or soldiers on camera?

Mark: thank you for coming out, and expressing your hatred for our military. Like many leftists, you evince a superiority complex toward those who put their lives on the line for their country. You do not seem to be upset when our soldiers are tortured and mutilate --- are you aware, sir, of the Geneva Conventions that are designed to make such actions illegal? Are you unaware of the difference between soldiers who follow such rules, the rules of war, vs. those who openly violate them? Like Jar Jar, you have deep problems with moral categories.
June 22, 2006, 2:55:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Jar Jar
for some reason it's not posting my comment, so i'm trying again:

fulldroolcup,

I appreciate your follow-up. I am aware that most militant groups in the Middle Eastern theater do not prosecute their soldiers for war crimes. And terrorists actually *encourage* such crimes.

Your questions are appeals to my emotions; while I do acknowledge that the terrorists and some militants have no standards -- and no equals -- when it comes to barbarity, it is also important to not dismiss out-of-hand barbarity (no matter how "superficial" or "extreme" it may be) when it is done by our side.

This is a pro-military, pro-morals, and pro-America stance, in my opinion. It would be *more* morally relativist of me to dismiss or make excuses for barbarity when done in our name.
June 22, 2006, 3:10:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark
Hi drool cup, thanks for your help. Well, as I mentioned, I wasn't really interested in debate. But you did have some questions, so...here goes:

For starters...hey, you got me! In fact, I'm such a huge goldang leftist that I up 'n' moved to Europe! How's that for left?

And...I'm not sure that I have a superiority complex toward those who..."put their lives on the line" was the turn of phrase you used, which implies some choice on their part. I feel sorry for them. I feel much much sorrier for the people who lives are placed on the line for them, or whose lives circumstance places on the line. I don't feel sorry for the bloodthirsty.

I also feel sorry for for people who've been told their entire life that they live in the greatest nation in the world, and that their way of life is the pinnacle of modern society. And they believe this with every fibre of their being, even though they've never been to another nation and can barely name any other nations on the map (unless they're shaped funny, like Italy).

Now, yes...those people I might have a superiority complex toward.

The rest of your questions: I'm upset when innocent people are tortured and mutilated. And I guess the moral categories you're referring to are the ones that make one way of killing someone, or many someones, "legal", or "playing by the rules". It's not really that deep a problem for me.

But: the deep problem I do have, the one that is mysteriously compelling me to keep commenting here, is with people who are defending this indefensible war and this indefensible president in the face of a grotesque amount of evidence that somehow the rest of the world can see and they cannot.

OK! My catfish is done. Thanks again!
June 22, 2006, 3:52:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark
Uh, sorry, James/Jar Jar. I wasn't talking about you with that "best country in the world" stuff.
June 22, 2006, 4:20:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Hawk SP
Mark SAID AT 06.22.06 - 1:46 pm

"Lastly, let me also reveal that I do indeed manifest a deep hatred for "our" military and every human instinct that makes it necessary."

It's great that it's finally coming out with you people. I figured we would start hearing the truth from you fine progressive Americans when you figured out that we (military types)weren't going to turn on the commander in chief. As much as you hoped and prayed the military would stop believing in the mission, it just hasn't happened. So it is only logical for you to drop the "We don't suppose the war, but we do support the troops" mantra and just let it all out. For you to succeed, you must attack us now. We understand!

I knew that that was the way most all liberals really felt and I'm proud of your "coming out" Mark. Here's the next step. You pull that bandana off of your face like you wear at your violent peace protests and drag your sorry ass down here to Ft. Bragg and say it to this old soldiers face. Then your transformation will be...complete.

Hawksp
June 22, 2006, 4:23:10 PM EDT – Like – Reply

fulldroolcup
Mark: yep, you're an elitist, all right. For the record I've been in about 75 countries and speak one Romance and one Asian language. I've lived in London, Munich, and Tokyo. I've got a couple of million air miles under my belt. So please: no bs about how cosmopolitan you are, while how Americans who disagree with you are rubes, THEREFORE that your position is self-evidently correct. That's just another form of chickenbleep ad hominem argument.

Oh btw: are you willing to call Jar Jar/James Smith a rube? He specifically says: "I have a deep respect for the U.S. military. I love this country and the values that make it the best in the world."

So lessee if I have this straight: he is against the Iraq war AND believes the US is the best country in the world. Cognitive dissonance, Mark? Or just more evidence that you are a moonbat?

Finally: you are unwilling to address the fact that there ARE "rules of war", and that the terrorists utterly ignore them. Rather you seem to want to prissily set yourself up as a moral superior equally to our military and the terrorists, and call that an argument. Pathetic.

What's more, you seem to think that volunteer soldiers, many of whom see themselves as warriors, knowingly and willingly put their lives on the line.
What fools they are! Right???? And to think that they re-enlist in huge numbers...why, that just proves what fools and yokels they are. Right?

We'll see whether you change your tune when dhimmitude hits Europe with full force. We'll see how much you like living under Sharia. I bet you'll try moving to Canada --- oops! That won't work either, will it.....
June 22, 2006, 4:28:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark
Hi Hawk,

Thanks for your message. Man, coming down to Ft. Bragg sounds real great...except that your tone of voice and talking about the "transformation" kind of reminds me of the extremely crazy killer in Red Dragon...the one who had trouble controlling his violent impulses? Nah, not you.

"You people". Very civil. This fine progressive American was so committed to getting away from people who love war that I left the country and stopped paying US taxes when the Commander-in-Chief entered the White House.

Hey: I didn't mean to actually attack you guys. I should have said "I hate the military". Or "all things military". I mostly meant the "every human instinct" part of that sentence if you'll read it again. Sorry for the confusion.

And hey...I'm not a liberal, I'm anti-conservative.

Oh, and hey: the military *can't* stop believing in the mission.
June 22, 2006, 4:36:25 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark
Drooly, what in the name of chickenbleep is so wrong with being an elitist? Jesus, it's not like I mutilated anyone.

And what Logic 101 book did you read that filled your head with all this ad hominem chickenbleep? I'm sorry, that's a personal attack, sort of. But you guys aren't attacking me, are you?

Anyway, this isn't about my position being correct. What did I say at the beginning? That I wasn't interested in debate. Because I'm a moonbat, obviously.

And I apologized to James/Jar Jar already.

I guess what we've got here is a situation where you seem to think that my dismay/disgust with this part of the human condition, with whatever it is about us that makes us incapable of getting along with other and having to resort to ending each other's short-enough-as-it-is lives via the game of war...is some sort of moral superiority complex.

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying I find it impossible to defend this war. I disagree with people who do, because I can't do it. That's it.

Dhimmitude is right around the corner here. But I don't see how my supporting the US troops is going to help me...I mean if they can't handle Iraq, this is a significantly large can o worms over here....
June 22, 2006, 4:54:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply

fulldroolcup
Jar Jar: I am not appealing to your emotions. I am noting the curious moral symmetry you apply to US soldiers, who do NOT torture combatants and innocents as a matter of policy, and those on the other side, who do so routinely.

Here's a perfect example of your side's position:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?X2131215D

It is a mystery to me how many libs can ignore history and condemn their own country more than they do an implacable enemy that uses torture as a strategy, a tactic, a psy-ops weapon, a political tool and PR weapon.

I do not "dismiss or make excuses for barbarity when done in our name." I notice that you suddenly drop the word "torture" in favor of "barbarity", as if they are the same. Please don't engage in that kind of shell game. War, even when its rules are followed, is barbarous--which is precisely why its rules need to be followed.

What you libs have done is made "torture" a portmanteau word, altering its original meaning to cover virtually ANY barbarity, ANY infliction of psychological stress or physical stress.

I would like to see you or any other liberal point to ANY war, ANYWHERE, where such things do not take place.

But even if you point to a few cases where some US forces have tortured, torture does not define US policy.

This war, is different, in that the terrorists who seek to foment religious genocide (mainly Sunni blowing up or killing Shia), or
beheading any western innocent they can get their hands on (Nick Berg et al.)are not remotely interested in engaging in the "rules of war", a concept that goes back several hundred years (cf. Hugo Grotius).

Yet the "moral equivalence" crowd, exemplified by the cartoon I cite above, sees US and THEM as the same.

It's a testament to the dumbing down of American universities that people cannot sort out logical categories, especially one as simple as this.

But, hey: you libs think you can win office by claiming that our troops as every bit as evil as Al Qaeda and the other terrorist groups at work in Iraq, go right ahead and try.

Come election day, "we will bury you".
June 22, 2006, 5:10:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Hawk SP
Mark,

You folks are all about words aren't you?

You don't seem to like the generalizations. We in the military don't like them either. Like when you elude a moral equivalency between the terrorists and us.

You sounded nervous and apologetic in your posting to me. You dont need to be. You, unlike other anti-conservatives, were willing to actually say what you felt. Be proud. Please just dont try to back down from your statement though, because number one, it insults my intelligence and number two, it makes you seem weak.

Ive never seen Red Dragon, so I dont have a clue as to what youre talking about. I just thought it would be helpful to you to not hide behind a computer (or your bandana) and pull up your nuts and say what you think to a soldiers face. Do it at Ft. Campbell or a recruiting station, or wherever. Just do it to a soldiers face. Its helpful for us to know where we stand. I think youll get a lot out of it too.

Hawk SP
June 22, 2006, 5:16:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Jar Jar/James
fulldroolcup,

I appreciate and respect your opinions, but I would disagree with your assertion that torture is not U.S. policy. It most certainly has been since 9/11, unfortunately. I am working to reverse this policy.
June 22, 2006, 5:27:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark
Hey Hawk,

I promise not to insult your intelligence if you promise to stop calling me "you folks" or "you people", because that makes me sound like I can't think for myself, or like I've got an strict agenda, and I don't.

I actually *was* apologetic in my posting to you, b/c frankly I should've considered my words more carefully...fulldroolcup got my dander up and I was just firing back, but I didn't think about what an actual soldier would feel if he read it as written. So, that's that. But any nervousness you detected was definitely just me imagining having to be in Ft. Bragg for any length of time.

In closing, my nuts are where they're supposed to be, and as amazed as I am to say it, you made me want to talk to a soldier.

OK, good job. Good luck. Moonbat out.
June 22, 2006, 5:38:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark
And, Hawk...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddy_Lounds

Paragraph four.
June 22, 2006, 5:53:43 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Hawk SP
Mark,

Before you go. I respect your last post and I believe your sincereity. For what it's worth though, I offer one more post. It might help if you ever do go talk to a soldier.

We all talk about truths. Here is a truth and by current accounts, what happened to our sodiers. Three Hummers were on a road manning a checkpoint trying to interdict terrorist movement and provide security to the local populace. They received small arms fire and two of the Hummers left in pursuit of Anti-Iraqi Forces (AIFs) they had eyes on. The remaining three soldiers in the last Hummer at the checkpoint received small arms from another area and after one or more of them were wounded, these American soldiers were neutralized in the attack. One is thought to have died outright, but its hard to tell because in addition to his wounds, his throat was also cut. So he was either too wounded to move or they simply wanted to desecrate his body. But he was the lucky one because it must have been relatively quick for him. He was at least identifiable. By the condition of the other twos bodies, it will be difficult to determine whether they were wounded in the initial engagement or not. But they were taken alive, in whatever condition they were in to a different location. After low-level beating that is the norm of all victims taken by these savages, they must have determined that these soldiers would not be useful for intelligence or exploitation. While they were alive, their genitals were cut off and shoved into their mouths. They were repeatedly chopped at while they were alive with a sword or large machete-type blade. As they were slowly bleeding to death, their throats were cut and then their heads were decapitated. Their hearts were cut out. They had to be identified by DNA tests!

Its hard to handle the realization that a fair chunk of the country hates us so much that they cant muster even a little compassion for them or their families.

I appreciate most rational citizens love and desire for peace. Soldiers do, probably more than anyone. But I ask you, is there anything, anything at all you would go to war for? Would you do it to protect your family? Would you do it to protect or promote democracy? I honestly hope you never have to.

Do you want to have an insight to the military mind? Here it is. Ive been in three armed conflicts and I havent liked it once. But I will not live in a world were people like this breath air. This is what I go to war for.

Hawksp
June 22, 2006, 6:01:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Hawk SP
"where" people like.....
June 22, 2006, 6:05:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark
Hawk,

Food for thought. Thanks.
June 22, 2006, 6:07:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Jar Jar/James
Hawk, where did you get the information regarding the details of the torture? If that's true, it is thoroughly appalling.
June 22, 2006, 6:21:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply

fulldroolcup
Anyone notice that Mark doesn't want to be stereotyped, yet he's the guy who stereotypes Americans who think their country is the greatest, etc?

Then there's this:

"This fine progressive American was so committed to getting away from people who love war that I left the country and stopped paying US taxes when the Commander-in-Chief entered the White House."

Note the unsupported claim that Americans "love war"?

Note the incredibly arrogant stance of this self-described "progressive" who unilaterally decides he doesn't have to pay US taxes? Just where in the tax code is this allowed? Mark just outed himself as a CRIMINAL!

Here's a clue, Mark: when you need serious health care,and come crawling back here rather than wait a year for surgery, the IRS will be very, very happy to see you. The gap in your tax filings will be picked up, as will you fropping off the radar screen vis a vis Social Security contributions.

I smile when I think of the tax liens, the hassles, you will go through.

Finally, note that Mark has left the country because he didn't like the outcome of an election. Funny, innit, that not a single Democrat member of the US House or Senate resigned over the 2000 election, yet Mark, filled with his faux elitism, his mindless arrogance and "progressive" attitude, flounces off to Europe.

Bottom line: Mark's not a member of an elite, just another confused and smarmy liberal. It's hardly what anyone would call an exclusive club.
June 23, 2006, 8:13:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark
Hey droolman. Let me make a couple of amendments to your bottom line.

I didn't want to be stereotyped by Hawk because he sounded like a rational being. I don't mind being stereotyped by you at all because I can see that you live in a world with two ways of thinking: with you, or against you, and I'm against you. Great. You're right. It's not even because I'm a "smarmy liberal", it's because I don't like you, I don't like your dismissive, belligerent, clenched-fist approach to conversation and your insistence on reducing everything to partisanism.

I don't pay US taxes because I no longer earn any taxable income in the US. I still file a return every year.

If you're touting US healthcare over the healthcare where I live (which I don't believe I've mentioned), then either you haven't been seriously ill in a very long time, you have a superlative corporate health plan, or you are simply deluded.

I didn't flounce, I said goodbye and good luck. There is nothing mindless about my arrogance, and I'm not confused about anything except why I keep coming back to this web page to have this conversation with you.

Oh, right. I saw this today and thought of you. I was wondering what your thoughts are about this:

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/dwest.htm

Eagerly awaiting your response,
Moonbat.
June 24, 2006, 1:53:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply

fulldroolcup
Mark, being a product of a liberal "education", you obviously need a Remedial Reading lesson: Here's the guts of Ms. West's column, which you cited, with my ****emphasis**** added:

"The question is, did bombing Dresden to defeat Hitler or dropping two nuclear bombs to force Japan to stop fighting make the Allies into barbarians? I think most people would still say of course not and argue that such destructive measures were necessary to save civilization itself and certainly thousands of mainly American and Allied lives. But if this argument continues to carry the day, it's because we still view that historic period from its own perspective. We view it from a perspective in which Allied lives our fathers, husbands, brothers and sons counted for more than Axis lives, even those of women and children.
How quaint. That is, this is not at all how we think anymore.

****If we still valued our own men more than the enemy and the "civilians" they hide among and now I'm talking about the war in Iraq our tactics would be totally different, and, not incidentally, infinitely more successful.****

We would drop bombs on city blocks, for example, and not waste men in dangerous house-to-house searches. We would destroy enemy sanctuaries in Syria and Iran and not disarm "insurgents" at perilous checkpoints in hostile Iraqi strongholds.

*****In the 21st century, however, there is something that our society values more than our own lives and more than the survival of civilization itself.*******

****That something may be described as the kind of moral superiority that comes from a good wallow in Abu Ghraib, Haditha, CIA interrogations or Guantanamo Bay.

****Morally superior people Western elites never "humiliate" prisoners, never kill civilians, never torture or incarcerate jihadists. Indeed, they would like to kill, I mean, prosecute, or at least tie the hands of, anyone who does.

***** This, of course, only enhances their own moral superiority.

****But it doesn't win wars. And it won't save civilization.

***Why not? Because such smugness masks a massive moral paralysis. The morally superior (read: paralyzed) don't really take sides, don't really believe one culture is qualitatively better or worse than the other. They don't even believe one culture is just plain different from the other.

*** Only in this atmosphere of politically correct and perpetually adolescent non-judgmentalism could anyone believe, for example, that compelling, forcing or torturing a jihadist terrorist to get information to save a city undermines our "values" in any way. It undermines nothing except the jihad."****

This exactly opposite your position, as well as Jar Jar's. Ms. West agrees with ME. And she perfectly describes eunuchs like yourself
June 24, 2006, 10:45:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply

fulldroolcup
Mark:

Re taxes:
How can you say on the one hand that you "stopped paying" US taxes, then tell us you don't need to pay them in the first place? Jeez, what bravery! What defiance!! LOL!!
June 24, 2006, 10:45:54 PM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark
Pleh. Just plain tiresome, old bean. Talk about reading comprehension: I don't recall saying anything about how I felt about the article, or in fact how I felt about any of the points you've cited from the article. I asked how YOU felt about it. When did I ever say that I didn't support torture? I didn't. I think you're confusing me with Jar Jar. Ah, but a lib's a lib I guess, it's simpler that way.

Re taxes. I purposefully engineered my US financial situation so that I could "stop" paying US taxes. So I "stopped" paying US taxes, like I said. I think my enthusiasm for this "discussion" has waned fatally, at least until you direct another personal attack my way (super job by the moderator, BTW), then I'll probably have to post again.
June 25, 2006, 7:36:25 AM EDT – Like – Reply

Mark
Actually, I take that back. I think I'm done here...maybe the next time I want to elevate my blood pressure I'll just catch up with you on one of the other 75 or so blogs on wihch you incessantly spew the same ol' "imbecile, idiot, moron, fact-marshalling, moral equivalence, ad hominem, chickenbleep" screed. You might consider a thesaurus and some fresh air.

Good luck to you!
June 25, 2006, 8:04:07 AM EDT – Like – Reply

fulldroolcup
Mark shucked and jived:

"Actually, I take that back. I think I'm done here...maybe the next time I want to elevate my blood pressure I'll just catch up with you on one of the other 75 or so blogs on wihch you incessantly spew the same ol' "imbecile, idiot, moron, fact-marshalling, moral equivalence, ad hominem, chickenbleep" screed. You might consider a thesaurus and some fresh air."

LOL!! Here's a guy who posts under an essentially anonymous moniker that can't be googled, who takes the time to google up where I have posted, and then finds words I have used in those posts, and hurls them back at me context-free --- and thinks he's making some kind of point!!

NEVER MIND how I used those words ! NEVER MIND that I used them twice at most! They are per se offensive!!! They are dispositive evidence that I had no argument to make!! LOL!!

Meantime, if one googles kos bush hitler you get 970,000 hits.

Or how about kos "bush lied" ? 156,000 hits.

Or how about Mark "logical, well-contructed argument"?

Sorry, ZERO hits.

Is anyone surprised?

I gotta hand it to ya: you wouldn't know how to make a rational case for anything, if your life depended on it.

Now run along, my clueless puppy....
June 25, 2006, 4:50:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply

fulldroolcup
Mark replies, non-responsively:

"Talk about reading comprehension: I don't recall saying anything about how I felt about the article, or in fact how I felt about any of the points you've cited from the article.

>>>>then why did you post the URL? What ARE your positions?

"I asked how YOU felt about it. When did I ever say that I didn't support torture? I didn't."

>>>>Fact is, you decided to post in a forum that is ABOUT the torture and mutilation of two GIs. You said you "hated the military". It is clear that you are either engaged in a personal, whack war against Human Nature (which makes you the quintessential leftist), OR you are just a troll. Which is it?

"I think you're confusing me with Jar Jar. Ah, but a lib's a lib I guess, it's simpler that way."

Sorry, but Jar Jar fits the kind of person West talks about. You specifically absolved him of the charge that Americans who support the war know nothing about the world. You sided with him, IOW. You are trapped in your own web of hypocrisy and illogic. How, for example, can you hate the military but accept the need for torture?

"Re taxes. I purposefully engineered my US financial situation so that I could "stop" paying US taxes. So I "stopped" paying US taxes, like I said.

>>>But in order to do that, you must prove to the IRS that you pay taxes in your current country of residence equal to what you would owe in the States. So where is the frickin' bravery and defiance in that? Snort!!

Anyone with a Turbotax account can confirm this. You didn't "engineer" anything -- you just followed the IRS's rules! What defiance! You are my HERO, sir! BWAAAhahahahahah!!!

I think my enthusiasm for this "discussion" has waned fatally, at least until you direct another personal attack my way (super job by the moderator, BTW), then I'll probably have to post again.

>>>>Your problem is that you don't understand what a personal attack is. You set yourself up as a moral examplar, who moved from the "evil" US ruled by the evil Bush.

Further you said:

"And before one of the faithful accuses me of being incapable of marshalling a rational argument (I realize I'm combining accusations here), or something other challenge that would require me to prolong my interaction with this site, let me pre-empt you by saying that I'm so not interested in having a logical, rational argument about this...if I were I most definitely wouldn't be looking for it here."

IPSE DIXIT. The confession of a self-important TROLL.

"Lastly, let me also reveal that I do indeed manifest a deep hatred for "our" military and every human instinct that makes it necessary."

IPSE DIXIT. The confession of a peson who hates the US military, who holds himself up as morally and intellectually superior to all Americans who don't, but who can't be bothered to make an intellectual argument to prove his case!

Run along now, you poor addled booby...
June 25, 2006, 5:15:19 PM EDT – Like – Reply

JoeS
This woman has more b@lls than any of the alphabet multimillionaire script readers. It is time for America to get Pissed Off about the media.

The leftist media prints our classified tactics to defend our people. They worry more about a terrorist with panties on his head.

Someone should remind the leftists (and the sorry trolls on this site) that these terrorists will kill them first, even though they kiss their terrorist a$. Of all people, these sorry wretches should thank God every day that we have a dedicated President and military to protect us.

The leftist media is positive that President Hillary will stand up to the terrorists. Yeah, right, she can't even stand up to her slut husband.

Right on, Fox!
June 25, 2006, 10:01:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply