'For You, It's a Mortal Sin'

J$P Instant Transcript! Geraldine Ferraro and B-1 Bob Dornan on the re-emergence of Bill Clinton. (And naturally, the hounds get it wrong.)

From Hannity and Colmes, October 12 2004:

ALAN COLMES [FOX NEWS]: Will Clinton’s appearance push Kerry over the top? Joining us from Washington former California Congressman Bob Dornan, and here in New York former Vice-Presidential nominee, Fox News political analyst Geraldine Ferraro. Gerry, nice to see you.


COLMES: Bob, go ahead, take your first shot at Bill Clinton.

ROBERT K DORNAN [FORMER CONGRESSMAN]: Well, did you happen to see the interview with Dr Phil and the First Lady and the President?


DORNAN: You know what he brought up to them?

COLMES: Here we go.

DORNAN: You know what he brought up to them, it just boggles the mind.


DORNAN: That oral sex is epidemic in the high schools of America.


DORNAN: And guess who told this nation that oral sex was not a sin, was not even sex? Bill Clinton. So bring him out. I don’t see how he can help at all.


DORNAN: It’s all true, Gerry. It’s all true.

COLMES: Bob, see, I give him carte blanche, I give the conservative carte blanche at the beginning of the show, and look where he goes. Look where he goes.

FERRARO: Don’t do it. Bob hasn’t changed. I served with him. Bob, you’re still getting a little bit off the wall on some of this stuff. Answer the question.

DORNAN: No, no. I mean, Gerry, it’s the truth. You know what’s off the wall? Gerry, you know what’s off the wall?

COLMES: Bob, Bob--

DORNAN: Bill Clinton telling the world that oral sex and phone sex, not sex.

FERRARO: [laughter] Ah, he never said that.

COLMES: Earth to Bob, earth to Bob, let’s talk about Bill Clinton on the campaign--hold on, hold on--

DORNAN: Oh yes he did.

COLMES: Let’s talk about Bill Clinton on the campaign trail for John Kerry.

FERRARO: It wasn’t a crime.

DORNAN: It was adultery and a mortal sin now, wasn’t it Gerry? The same as paying for abortion and infanticide.

FERRARO: Oh come on.

COLMES: Now Bob, Bob, Bob, Hello Bob?

DORNAN: Oh yeah.

COLMES: Bill Clinton’s going on the campaign trail for John Kerry. From a political strategy standpoint, you’ve got to acknowledge that’s a good idea, right?

DORNAN: Well, I think that Al Gore was still right, not wrong, to reject Clinton in the campaign four years ago. I don’t see how it can help. It will bring up a lot of rotten memories about what I just referred to--

COLMES: Only for you, apparently, only for you.

DORNAN: --what Clinton did to the youth of America.

COLMES: But look, here’s a very, Geraldine, a very popular politician--

FERRARO: Absolutely.

COLMES: --probably some of the edge has come off after four years. It’s probably a better idea to have him out there now than it was four years ago.

FERRARO: Especially his coming off of his sick bed to go down there and campaign because he really cares about this country.


FERRARO: But I have to tell you, Bob Dornan would not be quite so upset if he wasn’t worried that Bill Clinton is really going to make a difference.

COLMES: Right.

FERRARO: But I’ve got to tell you, the thing about it, the thing that’s a problem, is that, yes, Bill Clinton will remind people of what it was like when he was in the White House. It will remind them that the economy was good--

COLMES: Right.

FERRARO: --that he created ten million jobs. He’ll remind them that he was a person who made a real effort in the Middle East to move for peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians--

COLMES: Camp David and the attempt to improve upon the Camp David accords.

FERRARO: Absolutely.

COLMES: Bob, isn’t that true? People see Bill Clinton, they remember when jobs were up, when there was 22 million jobs created--

FERRARO: That’s right.

DORNAN: No, no.

COLMES: --they remember when we had a surplus in the economy. And they remember a whole bunch of things: peacetime in America, a whole bunch of things that aren’t the case right now.

DORNAN: Well, there’s a lot of Americans who remember him telling Monica the Israelis and the Soviet Union Secret Service are listening to our phone sex. Be careful what you say.


DORNAN: That’s what a lot of people will remember.

COLMES: Maybe Bob, that’s the first thing that comes into your mind, I’m not sure that the average American thinks that way.

FERRARO: That’s--

DORNAN: That’s what comes into the mind of people who go to church once a week.

COLMES: Well, yeah--

FERRARO: Well I go to church once a week, and that is the furthest--you know what comes into my mind when I go to church once a week, is the number of people who have fallen into poverty in the last four years, the number of people who don’t have health care in this country--

COLMES: 1.4 million people--

FERRARO: --the fact that affordable housing is now not available to people. The President’s got to [unintelligible] with this.

DORNAN: Gerry, what do you do when the priest, what do you do when the priest at every Mass you’ve ever gone to in the last ten years prays for the safety of the unborn innocent life? What do you do? You pray for them, right?

FERRARO: I--I pray for all human beings.

DORNAN: And you shudder at the thought of Kerry--

FERRARO: Bob, stop getting caught up on this stuff. You have to--Bob--

DORNAN: --Gerry, the election, Gerry, the election of Kerry--

FERRARO: --Bob, I support stem-cell research. I’m a Catholic. I do not believe--

DORNAN: --it’s a mortal sin, Gerry. Stem-cell research is a destruction of human life.

FERRARO: Bob, stop being so judgmental. You know what they say, judge not lest you be judged. Judge not.

DORNAN: That’s why we have a book called Judges in the Bible. That’s why we have Judges.

COLMES: Bob, do you then disagree with Nancy Reagan about this? Governor Schwarzenegger has departed from Bush on this issue. Nancy Reagan--

FERRARO: Nancy Reagan, Nancy Reagan agrees with me on stem-cell research. I also believe in in-vitro.

DORNAN: And Nancy’s wrong. But for Nancy it’s not a mortal sin. For you, Gerry, it’s a mortal sin.

FERRARO: Why? Why is it not? Why? Because Catholics should be treated worse than others?

DORNAN: Because she’s not a Catholic. Gerry, there were five--Gerry, Gerry, let me educate you, let me educate you like every--

FERRARO: So what is it, so it’s OK? Well remember Bill Clinton, Bob, Bill Clinton isn’t a Catholic either, so he can’t be guilty of a mortal sin then.


FERRARO: Bill Clinton isn’t a Catholic. You just said Nancy can’t be guilty of a mortal sin.

DORNAN: No, no, everybody, everybody can be guilty when you kill innocent human life, Gerry--

FERRARO: Ah, including Nancy who agrees with me that stem-cell research is necessary.

DORNAN: --when you kill innocent human life, everybody is guilty of a mortal sin who does that.

FERRARO: Lots of people in this country, then, lots of people in this country are guilty then.

COLMES: Let me ask you a question, Bob.


COLMES: Can you separate what’s good public policy, whatever your religious beliefs are, can you separate that from whatever you think good public policy is, so that others may make choices that you might not make because of your religious beliefs, but give others the opportunity to make those choices, because they may not think the way you think religiously?

DORNAN: Alan, Alan, Alan, think slavery. Deeply now, think slavery. There are five things that if a Catholic votes for them, he’s not a Catholic. He’s separated from his Church. He’s self-excommunicated. Infanticide, abortion, cloning, assisted suicide, and embryonic or fetal experimentation. Creating human beings with a soul and killing them.

FERRARO: How about the death penalty, Bob?

COL OLIVER NORTH [FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR]: Geraldine, Geraldine, Geraldine, Geraldine, time out, time out. Everybody, time out.

DORNAN: And homosexual marriage. No, death penalty is not the same thing, Gerry, and I’m against it.

FERRARO: Go ahead; I didn’t know you were here, Ollie. Hi Ollie. How are you? Welcome to the show.

NORTH: Bob, Bob, Geraldine, hold it. Stop. Just for a second. I’m going to try, at least my short portion of this broadcast, we’re going to try to do it with just one person talking at a time.

FERRARO: Yes, OK, go ahead.

NORTH: Geraldine first.


NORTH: Bringing Bill Clinton into this campaign would strike me to remind people--I want to get off the domestic issues for a little bit, deal with the kinds of things I’ve got a little expertise in, like national security.

FERRARO: Sure, right.

NORTH: And isn’t it going to remind voters of Kobart Towers, of the USS Cole, of the failure to respond to the first World Trade Center attack? I mean, here’s, they’re bringing Bill Clinton out, and all of your Democrat friends are saying national security, Iraq, the war on terrorism being prosecuted the wrong way, particularly for the security moms.

FERRARO: You know what, golly, I might agree with you if we were living in total peace and 9/11 hadn’t happened. But if you talk about major terrorism events, what happened here, in the twin towers in New York City, makes everything else be dwarfed, unfortunately. And the sad thing is is that, even after President Bush was President, this was a tremendous failure of intelligence.

NORTH: Yeah, but I don’t, I mean--

FERRARO: So, and now we’re in a war which, even everybody says it was a mistake to get into, and the President--

NORTH: No, everybody doesn’t say that. I just got back from over there. You haven’t heard me say that.

FERRARO: Well, you don’t think it’s a mistake. We have no weapons of mass destruction that were supposedly there, and that was the reason we going--no connection to Usama Bin Laden, that’s somebody about which President Bush said a while back he can run but he can’t hide, and he’s been hiding ever since.

NORTH: And we now have just today, we just had, just today we had the CIA Director acknowledge he gave bad information to the President of the United States.

FERRARO: Well then, that’s, that’s nothing--

NORTH: He also gave it to John Kerry, who initially said, man, there’s weapons of mass destruction there.

FERRARO: And do you think they gave it also to President Clinton before that?


FERRARO: OK, so I mean what do you do? You’re going back and saying they should not campaign because of that? I don’t think so.

NORTH: No, I’m just saying that it seems to me that bringing Bill Clinton into this campaign at this late hour is going to remind people how vulnerable we got when Bill Clinton didn’t do a thing about jihadist terrorism when he was President.

FERRARO: You know what, Ollie, I think anybody watching this program is going to say those conservatives are really, really worried because President Bill Clinton is going to get in there. He’s going to make a difference for this campaign. And I want to tell you something, he’s going to Philadelphia on Tuesday. I keep saying, jokingly, he’s going to do advance for me. I’m going there on Saturday, and I’m going to Pittsburgh Saturday night. I’m telling you, we’re going to win the state of Pennsylvania, we’re going to win Florida, we’re going to win Ohio, it’s going to be a big [unintelligible].

NORTH: All right, all right, I’m not asking you to become a prophet.

FERRARO: Well, Bob would tell me I can’t do that.

NORTH: Bob Dornan, is bringing Bill Clinton into this a sign of a man who’s on offense or defense in the case of John Kerry?

DORNAN: Ollie, do you remember what happened 33 and a half years ago this very day? Kerry testified before the Senate, and the next day, on the mall, with 200 of these Viet Cong flags flying around him, I got seven of them. And the last time I showed this very historical flag from out on the mall, tomorrow, 33 and a half years ago today, Alan said it was guilt by association, as though I got the only seven enemy flags. Kerry was at an enemy rally; there were hundreds--

COLMES: All right, hold on. We’re going to come right back right there Bob...

[commercial break]

NORTH: ...Bob Dornan, just before the break you were showing us a Viet Cong flag that was the product of one of John Kerry’s earlier youthful misadventures.


NORTH: What’s it going to take to remind the American people in terms of what Bob Kerry’s record is as we get right up to the edge of this election?

DORNAN: Well, the gentleman you’re filling in for, Sean, says it over and over and over, that never has a candidate for this high an office ever gotten such a free ride from the networks and the big newspapers. They don’t ask him what Sean constantly does: why do you think you could even be elected to the Senate admitting you committed war crimes and atrocities? And Alan talks about the free-fire zones. Ollie, you were there. There were no-fire zones, and a free-fire zone, which was all of Germany and France, by the way, after Normandy, meant you used your discretion but you still didn’t hurt innocent civilians.

NORTH: Geraldine--

DORNAN: He burned down villages with a Zippo lighter, and his enlisted men, that are for him, killed all the cattle, pigs, and chickens. Read page 62 in Unfit for Command.

NORTH: Geraldine, let me to come issue that Bob just raised, and that’s the issue of the veracity of John Kerry. Earlier this week he’s quoted in the Des Moines Register as saying that if George W Bush is reelected, it’s very likely that we’re going to have a draft again. As you know, as a former member of Congress, there is never going to be a draft again, because it takes the Congress to create a draft. The President can’t do it.

FERRARO: Ollie, Ollie, first of all let me just say to you that I was really shocked by your comments about John Kerry. I mean, you of all people know his military record. I mean, Bob hasn’t looked anything or read anything--

NORTH: But Geraldine, this has nothing to do with his military record. This is what happened after the war.

FERRARO: --no, no, you brought it up, and you associated him with the VietNam--

DORNAN: I went to VietNam ten times, Gerry. Ten times I went to VietNam. I never saw these atrocities.

FERRARO: Bob Dornan, Bob, Bob, well maybe you weren’t looking. I assume the My Lai massacre didn’t occur either.

DORNAN: I was looking; I went there specifically to investigate.

FERRARO: I assume that didn’t occur either. And I assume some of the things that have gone on in Iraq that we’re not supposed to be talking about, I assume those didn’t happen, but yet you got somebody who’s just been sent to jail for eight years for [unintelligible].

DORNAN: No, they happened. My Lai happened.

FERRARO: But, sure they did. And so did other things. But for you to associate John Kerry with the Viet Cong, you should be ashamed of yourself. Absolutely ashamed of yourself.

DORNAN: He went to Paris and met with Madame Binh twice.

COLMES: All right, let him answer the question. Hold on, guys.

FERRARO: He fought for the right to get up and say this is an unjust war, just like veterans today may do the same thing.

COLMES: By the way, when he got up in front of Senate in 1971, 71% of Americans--

DORNAN: Today.

COLMES: --agreed with him that the war was a bad war. Robert McNamara has now come and said the same thing. But Bob, you keep claiming, and Republicans keep claiming, that Bill Clinton did nothing to thwart terrorism. He actually did a lot more than any previous President, tried to stem the flow of money to the terrorists. And he also warned the Bush administration, said keep your eye on Usama Bin Laden. He had Predator drones watching him. And he warned the Bush administration, and then the Bush administration did nothing about it for nine months.

DORNAN: Alan--

COLMES: So you want to blame Clinton, that’s ridiculous.

DORNAN: Alan, wait a minute, Alan. Seven months and 22 days, be accurate. And he considered it like bank robberies. He never considered it a war on terror. It was bank robberies, not quite as bad as the nuisance word.

COLMES: He warned the Bush administration, they gave intelligence to the Bush administration. And they just chose to ignore anything Clinton, and that’s why they sat on it while Bush was President. The finger-pointing about this is ridiculous.

DORNAN: His distraction with about 15 women crippled him from doing anything seriously about terrorism. He will be a disaster for the Church, a disaster on national security, and he’ll keep this country more divided than you ever dreamed it could be, if he were to pull an upset.

FERRARO: Absolutely not.

COLMES: All right, it’s pretty divided right now, Geraldine. It’s as divided as we can possibly get.

FERRARO: You know the fortunate thing is that the public isn’t as divided as both Bob and Ollie would make us believe. I mean, what’s happened is the public is seriously looking at the conditions of what are happening now in Iraq, whether or not this is now a war that should be continued, how do we get the peace in there? But they’re also looking at things like the budget deficit, they’re looking at this tax cut, the privatization of social security which President Bush is suggesting, all of these things, that’s what they’re looking at. Very smart public.

DORNAN: Kerry says add 40,000 dollars. Geraldine, listen to Don Imus. Listen to Don Imus, he’s--

NORTH: Geraldine and Bob, Geraldine and Bob, Geraldine and Bob, our time is up. Listen you guys, you can talk if you like, but we’re going to turn you down. We’re going to take a quick break...

Postscript: Newshound deborah's summary of the above is only four short paragraphs, so she didn't allow herself enough room to realize her usual quota of mangled quotes (though there are several). But she misses one point by a country mile:

Dornan went on to say that Bill Clinton told the world that oral and phone sex was fine but it's a mortal sin claiming that this will come to mind when people are in church on Sunday.

A genuine no-prize to the person who can find where Mr Dornan calls either oral or phone sex a "mortal sin".

posted: Sat - October 23, 2004 at 02:11 AM       j$p  send