J$P Instant Transcript! Bill Kristol is a little angry with Susan Estrich.

From On the Record, October 6 2004:

earlier in the broadcast:

BILL KRISTOL [THE WEEKLY STANDARD]: Well obviously, I think Cheney clobbered Edwards in the first half of the debate on national security. He didn’t clobber Edwards, more precisely he clobbered John Kerry. He put Kerry’s Senate record front and center and Edwards never defended Kerry’s record. Cheney said many times that Kerry’s weak on defense, wrong in the 80s, wrong in the 90s, voted against the first gulf war, against the 87 billion....

RICH LOWRY [THE NATIONAL REVIEW]: ...In his weakest moments he couldn’t answer the question about France and Germany not sending more troops even if he’s elected, he couldn’t answer really whether Kerry would have toppled Saddam Hussein or not. And that just shows you real weaknesses in Kerry’s record that even a great trial lawyer can’t defend.

CARL CAMERON [FOX NEWS]: ...The Kerry-Edwards team really had hoped that the North Carolina Senator this evening would be able to sustain the momentum, perhaps even enhance the momentum in order to keep things going for what, by most accounts, was John Kerry’s stronger performance in the last debate. But the consensus seems to be emerging that Vice-President Dick Cheney did better. There was an ABC News snap poll tonight that said Cheney won it. There was a CBS poll of undecided voters that suggests that Edwards did well, but undecideds tend to wait to the last moments of the campaign which means they’re looking for change, because they’re not enamored of the incumbents...

Who Won Tonight’s Vice-Presidential Debate?
45% - Vice President Dick Cheney
53% - Senator John Edwards
1% - I did not watch the debate
Source: GretaPoll [online unscientific straw poll]

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN [FOX NEWS]: All right Susan, our poll, what are your thoughts?

SUSAN ESTRICH [DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST]: Well, I like your poll and I think it’s a lot more honest than what Carl Cameron had to say. And I like Carl, but I think he’s just not being honest and fair in what’s going on in this room today.

VAN SUSTEREN: In what way? Let’s, what do you--

ESTRICH: Well, I mean, I don’t think there’s any consensus in this room tonight. I’ve been in this room for the last five hours and talking to everybody. And I think you can only say in this room that every Democrat I talked to was very pleased with John Edwards’s performance. They all think that Edwards did what he had to do tonight, showed that he was up to Dick Cheney. And all the Democrats I talked to tonight--

VAN SUSTEREN: And Republicans?

ESTRICH: Thought Edwards did terribly, and the Republicans think Dick Cheney did very well tonight, and that he held his own and made the case for George Bush. So I think you can only fairly say that if you’re a Republican, you’re probably happy with Cheney, and if you’re a Democrat you’re very happy with Edwards. And I don’t think Carl can say there is a consensus.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right.

ESTRICH: I also think, I’ve got to make one more point because I hate it, hate it when people don’t tell the truth. And neither my friend Bill Kristol nor my friend Rich Lowry is telling the truth tonight. Now you may agree or you may disagree with Edwards’s defense of Kerry, but he does defend the record. I refer to the transcript here. He goes on at some length defending Kerry’s record on defense. You guys, you’ve just got to tell the truth. Here it is.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, well I got to let these guys respond. So Bill, I’ll start right there first with you.

BILL KRISTOL [THE WEEKLY STANDARD]: Well, I don’t respond to, I mean, I’m not on this show to be accused of not telling the truth, and I don’t--

ESTRICH: It’s right here in the transcript.

KRISTOL --no, Susan, that’s just ludicrous. John Edwards did not do much--did he defend Kerry’s vote against the ‘91 Gulf War? Did he defend Kerry’s oppositions to the defense programs? He just didn’t, and he didn’t--

ESTRICH: Yes, he did.

KRISTOL: He didn’t. I don’t believe he did. You could show me, if you want to waste a lot--

ESTRICH: I want to go back to what the Vice-President just said. “John Kerry has voted for the biggest military appropriations bill in the country’s history. He voted for the biggest intelligence appropriation. The Vice-President, when he was Secretary of Defense, cut over 80 weapons systems, including the very ones”--

KRISTOL: But that’s a really impressive defense of Kerry’s record, Susan.

ESTRICH: He’s going on and on, what do you want--

KRISTOL: He is not going on and on. There are two sentences. Look, OK, fine, you think it was a very fine defense of Kerry’s record. I’ve talked to Democrats tonight who don’t think Edwards did a terribly good job on that. But look, it’s a reasonable disagreement, you don’t accuse someone of not telling the truth, Susan.

VAN SUSTEREN: Wait, I’ve got to at least give Rich--

KRISTOL: You have a different interpretation of the debate. And I’m not amused by appearing on this show and have Susan Estrich say that I’m not telling the truth. That’s just ridiculous.

ESTRICH: Well he did defend it.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, well let me at least give Rich his bit. Go ahead, Rich.

RICH LOWRY [NATIONAL REVIEW]: Greta if I could just briefly also defend my truthfulness. Susan, I guess, didn’t hear what I said. What I said is that Edwards didn’t have a good explanation when he was asked by Gwen Ifill who said that France and Germany were not going to come into Iraq even if John Kerry was elected. What I said was Edwards didn’t have a good answer on that, and he didn’t. And I also said he didn’t have a good answer to the question of whether Kerry would have actually toppled Saddam Hussein or not. Susan can read from the transcript on that if she likes, but he didn’t give a clear answer on that because I don’t think anyone really knows what Kerry’s answer is on that question even as [unintelligible].

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, I need to call a halt on it...