'The Entire Elite in this Country is on Kool-Aid'

J$P Instant Transcript! Pat Caddell and Michael Reagan on Hannity and Colmes

From Hannity and Colmes, September 15, 2004:

ALAN COLMES [FOX NEWS]: How will voters sift through all this talk of VietNam and the National Guard, and how will it affect the election? Joining us from Los Angeles, former Democratic strategist Pat Caddell, and radio talk show host Michael Reagan. Michael, I know conservatives are frothing at the mouth at this story, excited, thrilled. And even you have the Republican National Committee coming outright and saying Democrats are behind this. Isn't that irresponsible? We don't know who's behind it.


COLMES: We don't know if somebody with a political agenda is behind it. And shouldn't we find out before we jump to those conclusions?

REAGAN: Alan, the first people who started to affix blame was the Democrat National Committee affixing blame to a Republican operative--

COLMES: Oh they did it first, that's your answer.

REAGAN: --and brought this forward. I don't know where you're going with this. Listen, we don't have to make anything up. All we have to follow is CBS's lead of what's going on in the news industry. And all we do is talk about what in the world is going on. Affixing blame? You tell me who to affix blame to.

COLMES: Do you know who's behind it?

REAGAN: The reality of it is, Kerry is the fault here. Kerry will never let go of the VietNam issue. Because of that, Dan Rather, does anybody not believe right now where Dan Rather's going to vote on November 2nd? Everbody I've talked to know where he's going to vote.

COLMES: Wait a minute, what does that have to do with this? Are you suggesting Michael that Dan Rather--

REAGAN; Because he's become partisan, he's become partisan.

COLMES: Are you suggesting Michael that Dan Rather purposely did this story in order to hurt George W Bush and help elect John Kerry?

PAT CADDELL [DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST]: I'll say that, I believe it.

COLMES: Is that your suggestion?

REAGAN: Let me tell you, absolutely.

COLMES: You do believe that.

REAGAN: Absolutely. Why? Because he bit the apple he wanted to bite the apple of. He bit into the fraudulent papers to tell the story.

COLMES: All right, let me go to Pat Caddell here. Pat, you believe that?

CADDELL: I've always had great respect for Dan Rather. I cannot believe what's going on in this story. I think the entire elite in this country is on Kool-Aid. This is one massive Jonestown going on. What are you people drinking? I mean, what are you people drinking? The headline of the L.A. Times today, which I brought if you want to see it, and the same one in the New York Times, which is "Documents False, Content True". You know, I can say, I'll bet you the Czar's secret police were saying that about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Oh they're fake, but you know, you cannot in this country get up and say we have falsified documents, not saying where you got them from if they're false. All of their people, and I'm sitting here going, meanwhile, John Kerry and the Democratic Party are grabbing a hold of this and going right down the tubes with it and I've said on this show for a month. I mean, this is insanity--

COLMES: But Pat, do you really believe that Dan Rather purposely did this because he has a political agenda?

CADDELL: I think that Dan Rather no longer, let me just say, I'm beginning to believe that Dan Rather doesn't know the difference any more. If you watched him as I watched, do you know what he said tonight? Let me tell you what he said tonight. He said, well, the woman they interviewed is showing, well I didn't type the documents they're obviously false. And then he says, "She said something then more interesting"--that these are the things he thought about. That's more interesting than the fact that the documents are fraudulent? Let me tell you this: if you had interviewed the 86-year-old lady and there were no documents, would she be on in the New York Times, would she be on the front page of the LA Times, and would she be on 60 Minutes? The answer is no.

SEAN HANNITY [FOX NEWS]: Hey Pat, what's even worse is all the people they've ignored and had to bypass to get this story on.

CADDELL: Oh please, the guy you had on last night, the founder of CNN, is an exact example of what's wrong in this. The elite press cannot stand the idea that you got intelligent people, they get on the internet and see with their own eyes. This idea that we have to feed you, but I'm going to tell you what's really scaring me. What scares me with this, it's like what's going on with NBC right now. Three days of Kitty Kelley? Do you know guys that they did not, not once, I went and looked at their website, do you know that the swiftboat people, I don't believe them, not once have they been on?

HANNITY: Not once.

CADDELL: Three days in a row. You know, what is happening? What is that about? If you don't think that's about an election you're crazy.

HANNITY: Hey Pat, I'm going to be honest, it's your party that's imploding. I'm just going to let you guys do--

CADDELL: My party is being destroyed by this. And by the way, but let me tell you the larger issue here, what's really at stake is the freedom of this country. I would like to tell my friend Carl Bernstein--

HANNITY: Well, there are serious issues; I take it seriously.

CADDELL: Let me just finish a point here.

HANNITY: Go ahead.

CADDELL: I would like to tell Carl Bernstein, he's a very good friend of mine, he better wake up if he wants to see the first amendment. The reason we have a first amendment was the Founding Fathers did not like the press--read what Jefferson thought about them. We have a free press for one reason: to protect the country. That was the deal. It was not for them to tell the American people who to vote for, or who not to vote for, or what truth they can hear, or what truth they couldn't hear. When they do that, some day we're going to lose that right, we're going to lose our own freedoms over this. This is dangerous stuff.

HANNITY: Well Pat, you and I have some serious agreements here.


HANNITY: I just think we're going to Hannitize you and bring you over to my side.

CADDELL: No, I'm not a Hannity person, because you people sometimes are just as bad.

REAGAN: Oh Pat, take a break for a minute.

HANNITY: All right, it's my fault now. I'm not doing this.

REAGAN: Pat, take a break. What do you want, Sean?

HANNITY: All right, let me go to Michael. You know, one of the things the DNC just can't seem to get their act together, now they're launching this other ad, using in the ad 60 Minutes footage which is even more funny, and they won't let go of the VietNam issue. Even Howard Wolfson, I thought was pretty insightful, he said, oh the President lost 10 points in his credibility numbers. This is myopic, this is mindless on their part.

REAGAN: It is absolutely mindless. You had Terry McAuliffe up there yesterday calling the President of the United States a liar. This is their whole campaign. Let's call the President a liar. Let's not talk about today's issues. Let's refight the VietNam war. I was saying in an op-ed piece today that John Kerry in fact has talked about VietNam longer than he spent there. And people are getting tired of it.

COLMES: And we're going to have, that's a cute line, but we will continue in just a moment.

[commercial break]

HANNITY: We continue now with Pat Caddell and Michael Reagan. Pat, even Tony Coelho was saying if someone can't get a message out in a Presidential campaign, how are you going to be a good President? You got the Clinton people now are battling the Kennedy people within the campaign.

CADDELL: Oh the bloodletting is unbelieveable I understand, inside.

HANNITY: I think they may want Hillary in '08 and may not be working for Kerry.,

CADDELL: Well, let me tell you something. Well, let's not get into that, because that really gets dark, but I wouldn't put it aside. But let me just say something here. The more important point is, let me tell you something. Don't they understand in 1992 we elected a man who had had--speaking of not serving--had some problems. And in fact, by the New York primary, we found out that Bill Clinton had lied about getting, in New Hampshire, about being drafted actually. [Unintelligible] He got elected President. As Bob Kerrey said, I could never believe in my wildest dreams that I, that I could lose, I, a medal of honor winner, could lose to a draft-dodger in Georgia. All right? Now there, you know, what are they, what do they think is happening here? This is 30 years ago. Nobody cares about that with Bush. He's already been Commander-in-Chief. This is all the anger, this is the anger that's killing my party.

HANNITY: Let me go to Michael; I want to stay on Pat's point, because I have been highlighting this liberal anger if you will for a long time. Max Cleland now on the campaign trail called Bush, Cheney, and Rove "pure evil". We have Harkin calling the President a liar. Now you have Kerry playing the race card, saying they're suppressing black votes. I mean, it's Kennedy, it's Kerry, it's Dean, it's Gore, it's like Pat's whole party is unhinged with this anger.

REAGAN: Well they're just buying in to their own victimology. I mean, everybody's a victim, they're the biggest victims of all, victims of what the Republicans are doing to them. And your'e right. It's all about anger, it's not about ideology, it's not about what they believe in, where they want to take the country.

HANNITY: I hate Bush; I hate Bush.

REAGAN: I hate George Bush so much that I'm willing to say the things I'm saying. What's happening is, if anybody is tearing down our Presidency, it truly is the hate that's coming from the Democratic operatives.

CADDELL: Well, but it came from your party too.

HANNITY: Hang on a second, Pat.

REAGAN: Pat and I were talking earlier, how we used to really uplift the President, how important that position is. And we used to revere that. This campaign, and campaigns before it, just tearing down the Presidency--

HANNITY: But why do they hate the President?

COLMES: Pat, let me ask you, where are the Republican vulnerable here? Where do you think the Democrats should be directing where they are vulnerable?

CADDELL: Let me tell you something, you look at the polls, the problem is Kerry is still hemorrhaging. I juar looked at the new Gallup numbers nationally, don't bother to even follow the state polls. What the opportunity is, is that people are not happy with the direction of the country. They are very concerned about what's going over internationally. But there is no larger message. You have no message when every day you're going out there and stepping on it by going after this stuff on the National Guard. Now I'm going to say this [unintelligible]--I worked against Michael's father twice. I worked every day and night to defeat him. But you know, I always respected Ronald Reagan, I believed he was a patriot, and I still do. I'm upset that his mother, the former First Lady, was being smeared by Kitty Kelley, any more than the Bushes are. There has got to be some civility, because, I'll tell you, you want to read about history, go back and read what Theodosius said what happened to the Greeks, when you've got this kind of fanaticism. And it started by the way with you Republicans and Bill Clinton.

COLMES: You've got some great points. By the way, Michael, I agree with Pat to a large extent. But I also believe that George W Bush is vulnerable--

CADDELL: He is vulnerable, I'm saying that.

COLMES: --on issues like Iraq. We should be talking about that.

REAGAN: But you know something, he's not vulnerable with Kerry running the campaign he's running.

COLMES: Kerry wins on prescription drugs, on education, on a whole series of domestic issues. And I think the Democrats ought to focus on that; your President is vulnerable.

REAGAN: Then you ought to run for President; you ought to run for President of the United States. John Kerry won't run on those issues because he has a voting record in the Senate that's the opposite of the way he's running the campaign. He doesn't want to run on those issues so therefore he wants to fight the VietNam war.

COLMES: That's not true.

CADDELL: They believe, there was a terrible mistake made early in this campaign, it was the belief that one, and I said this at the time of the convention, it's totally backwards from understanding Presidential history, they said, everybody was running around saying the election was a referendum on the incumbent. That is not true. The election historically is first a referendum on the challenger. When they sat in Boston and didn't say anything or do anything, and when they ran around and were telling people, reporters and things, oh, anytime anybody mentions VietNam it's a plus for John Kerry. This is about the worst strategized and the worst campaign management in the history of American politics, and the worst thing is, it gets worse. This is the third--if we lose this election, it's a disaster for my party.

COLMES: And this helps George W Bush. Michael, this has got to be good for, not--I didn't mean to say "your President", our President, your candidate is what I meant to say. The President's got to be very happy about this because we're not talking about issues on which he is really vulnerable.

REAGAN: You'd be giddy. Listen, you'd be giddy if you were the President of the United States, seeing what's happening to this campaign as it implodes every day. And what's going on with CBS, which is not going to be very helpful to John Kerry at all. It shows why Fox is number one at the Republican convention and more people watching Fox, because of what CBS, NBC, and the dominant media has been doing.

HANNITY: All right. Michael, good to see you. Hey, Pat, I'm never having you back on the show again.


HANNITY: You want to know why?


HANNITY: You give too good advice for your party. That's it, you're done. I'm only teasing. Thanks, good to see you.

CADDELL: [laughter] Don't worry, they don't listen to me, they don't listen to me.

HANNITY: You're making too much sense; I appreciate you being here.

posted: Wed - September 15, 2004 at 09:12 PM       j$p  send