Ignorance to the Power of Tan
Updated! Sometimes you can only shake your head in wonder. Just how uninformed are the Fox haters at the newshounds (another fine product of the Outfoxed mob)? We have Deborah to thank for this latest bit of jaw-droppery. Burdened with an actual video clip, her ability to construct doctored quotes was hampered, so instead she just cooked up an imaginary cause celebre:
Megyn Kelly Describes Michelle Obama's Style: "Camelot With A Tan"... When Kelly said Michelle Obama's style was "Camelot with a tan", it was clear where she was trying to go with the segment.Oooh. Is it clear to you too? It was certainly clear to the credulous kennel dwellers, who didn't need a memo to figure out how to follow up on Deb's lead. As ignorant as Debbie's post was, the gullible denizens of the dog pound raised that ignorance to the 10th power:
- "Camelot with a tan" wtf??? That republican humor?
- Mrs.Obama has NEVER killed an ex has NEVER sold drugs has NEVER stole druds [sic] but there's just something about her OH YEAH she's Tan.
- Megyn Kelly is a whore.
- Okay where is that idiot troll that was asking everyone to prove that Fox is racist.
- Only on Fox...first of all, that certainly wasn't the first time the 'camelot with a tan' was mentioned.
- skanky megyn is so jealous that she'll never even come close to measuring up to Michelle Obama.
- "with a tan?" What a racist comment.
- I wonder how the RWers are going to spin this, to say it was taken out of context. --john t
- I missed this tonight but.."UN[deleted]BELIEVABLE.." This just has to be a put on... Come on now.
- megyn kelly is a shameless skank.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Interestingly, while Cindy McCain chose jeans for her "Vogue" spread, her likely competitor, Michelle Obama, chose a traditional black dress with pearl earrings for her "Vogue" spread. As the "Washington Post" described it, it was as if Michelle Obama was saying, "I'm not some scary other. I am Camelot with a tan."Hmm. This apparently makes Ms Costello another racist, shameless, snanky whore--if the Fox haters were to be consistent. But wait, there's more. You will notice a reference there to the Washington Post? Yes, it's true, the eeevil Fox phrase originated in that horrible Obama-hating rag:
Obama's photos seemed crafted specifically to help the viewer imagine her in the role of first lady. She is a study in little black dresses, conservative pearls, preppy hair and restraint. Again, the implied message is unmistakable: I am neither subversive nor threatening. I am not some scary "other." I am Camelot with a tan.So Deb and the kennel-dwellers take a positive, pro-Obama sentiment and turn it into some sort of evil racist attack. Why? Because someone on Fox said it. That's really beyond ignorance. It's wholesale hypocrisy and intellectual bankruptcy taken to heights that only the haters at the kennel can attain.
UPDATE: Additional uses of the phrase that only became a hateful, racist slur when it was mentioned on Fox: That last one deserves to be quoted:
Didn't Michelle Obama say something re Camelot in her Vogue spread? Something about Obama's administration being "Camelot with a tan." If she didn't, she should have. I think that's fantastic.
APPENDIX: Complete video of Megyn Kelly report...
liars fox news
Fox Fan
Hang on for a second here, johnny. Are you telling me that Deborah lied about something the far-more intelligent and charismatic Megyn Kelly said? Surely un-catty and invindictive on Deb's side; just a mistake.
June 6, 2008, 11:51:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
This thread is not for Michelle Obama bashing. I have deep respect for her and don't want any ugly garbage on this thread or News Hounds.
deborah | Homepage | 06.06.08 - 9:12 pm | #
She forgot to say that anything goes for anyone with an (R) after their name. Like below. Not a peep.....
><
let's see Mrs.Obama has NEVER killed an ex has NEVER sold drugs has NEVER stole druds but there's just something about her OH YEAH she's Tan........
DavidRWoods | 06.06.08 - 8:17 pm | #
June 6, 2008, 11:53:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
I'm actually giving Deb sort of the benefit of the doubt on this one. I don't see proof that she deliberately lied. This is more of her ignorance and stupidity, and her hatred of Fox. She had to find something to smear them with, so she cooked up a "controversy" over what was obviously a favorable quote from the Washington Post (she didn't even bother to take 30 seconds to Google it of course). Then she let the even more ignorant dogs loose and they took it up, as I would say, to the tanth power.
June 6, 2008, 11:53:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
johnny dollar | Homepage | 06.06.08 - 11:58 pm | #
So her stupidity, ignorance, and hatred are excuses for her lie.
Fair enough.
June 6, 2008, 11:58:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply
On The Mark
I spent much of the late afternoon and evening gardening (alas, no arugula, but tomatoes and peppers in massive piles), and my only "watch" was a bit of Gregory. The dynamic between Buchanan and Maddow is getting very interesting. They are a surprisingly good pairing. They have fresh (an odd word for Buchanan) opinions, well thought out, well articulated. Sometimes intersecting, sometimes miles apart. A bit of sometimes heated, spirited but respectful argument. I am enjoying them more-and-more.
Of course, Robinson remains the most pleasant man on television, but also offers a very good perspective.
As for the others, including Gregory, nichts, nada, rien.
June 7, 2008, 12:19:37 AM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
And that has what to do with this post? Tell me why it isn't off-topic, please.
June 7, 2008, 12:25:10 AM EDT – Like – Reply
On The Mark
It is completely off this topic. I meant to post on the Friday links which are always broader and specifically has a Gregory item. My apologies.
June 7, 2008, 12:31:06 AM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
OK, sorry for snapping. I'm a bit on edge tonight for irrelevant reasons. Just repost your thoughts over there.
June 7, 2008, 12:39:58 AM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
I'd be more than "on edge" if I had to sit through Olbyonesidedkanoby every night. He's THE most depressing person on TV.
June 7, 2008, 12:58:40 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Mr Dollar, I don't think there's anything left for you to do other than to pop them onto a plate. Those doggies are done.
June 7, 2008, 1:30:42 AM EDT – Like – Reply
vstol
J$,
glad you joined me in the pound.
Life would be soooo much better for the hounds if they would simply say, "Ooops. My Bad. I was wrong."
It's like the Fonzie complex, only not cool
June 7, 2008, 3:11:28 AM EDT – Like – Reply
VinceP1974
I just read the NH thread. My God those people are so pathetic.
vstol: I love how they didn't get your point about why is just mentioning that she's black offensive?
I've said this before to other people,.... are we to pretend that black peolpe don't exist ?
June 7, 2008, 4:12:43 AM EDT – Like – Reply
tess
Do you know if it is true that Cindy McCain is an ex junkie and stole drugs from her ex employer?
June 7, 2008, 8:55:38 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
vstol, I read your post at the NH site and it's apparent that this info hasn't quite seeped through the titanium sheath-like exoskeleton covering their minute gelatinous cerebral cortices.
I don't where you and Johnny get your energy...
June 7, 2008, 9:03:05 AM EDT – Like – Reply
VinceP1974
tess must be one of those compassionate tolerant open-minded Progressives.
Lovely people , aren't they?
June 7, 2008, 9:22:26 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
It's roughly true, tess. She stole the drugs from a medical charity program that she founded and headed.
June 7, 2008, 9:30:57 AM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
If Cecelia says it's true then it is. But I'm curious as to why tess brings it up. WHat does it have to do with any of the issues on this point? Why is the reaction to someone complimenting Michelle Obama to then launch a personal attack on Mrs McCain?
This is the mindset of haters. Saying CMcC stole drugs is probably the nicest thing they said about her over at the NH. There was the requisite vulgarity, calling her McC--- (the missing letters were not "ain"), etc.
This is all just hate. Whether you like Cindy or not (and they automatically do not) this isn't about her, or Michelle Obama. It's about how haters take a perfectly acceptable phrase, written by a black reporter, that has been since quoted hundreds of times, and suddenly decide it's a racist attack--just because someone on Fox decided to quote it too.
June 7, 2008, 9:45:01 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Well, Johnny, I thought I should be charitable. You tore their little crepe paper party streamers to pieces and tess felt like she needed some sort of pay-back.
I'm a giver, it's not in me to take...
June 7, 2008, 10:28:41 AM EDT – Like – Reply
vstol
It's pretty clear that Deborah was just chumming the waters. Little did she know the unintended consequence was exposing the sharks, barracudas and bottom feeders that feed there.
June 7, 2008, 11:06:47 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Fast Eddie
All of the sudden I am unable to post at Newshounds. What took them so long?
June 7, 2008, 11:35:22 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
vstol | 06.07.08 - 11:11 am | #
Don't forget the brown "sea cucumbers" like john t.
June 7, 2008, 1:01:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
I think that it is hilarious that John t once said, in a deleted comment on this site, that I am too ignorant to talk to?
Can you believe t-boy's ignorance . . . as well as the ignorance of the majority of posters in the nh site?
John t said repeatedly: "I can't see the compliment in the Camelot statement. Show me the compliment. I can't see it."
The majority of the the people on the site (including Deborah) don't realize that the person who crafted the phrase was essentially saying that Obama is JFK with a tan.
Putting aside the fact that I loathe JFK: Most liberal democrats view JFK as some kind of demi-God. In their circles, one can give no greater compliment than to compare a candidate to JFK.
John t; Deborah; and the majority of the gang in the kennel are heavily indoctrinated, and they confuse indoctrination with being free of ignorance. On the contrary, Deborah's article and comments have demonstrated, once again, that heavy indoctrination can perpetuate ignorance, not diminish it.
June 7, 2008, 1:32:43 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
Danny, another reason the quote is a compliment is because it's been around for several weeks, has been cited approvingly in hundreds of places, and was cheered by no less an Obama-friendly site than the Daily Kos. I have not seen one complaint that it's a racist slur anywhere. Until, of course, someone mentions it on Fox, and then it becomes eeeevil.
I mean, you have to wonder for the intellectual level of our country when this sort of demagoguery is taken as "thought".
June 7, 2008, 1:47:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Great point! Another example of incredible NH hypocrisy.
June 7, 2008, 2:00:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply
VinceP1974
J$: "I mean, you have to wonder for the intellectual level of our country when this sort of demagoguery is taken as "thought"."
I makes me fear our future.
June 7, 2008, 2:02:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Did you notice how our friend Crash Chloride repeated the same stupidity, and then said that he hoped that that helped?
We should consider his level of sophistication the next time he crashes this site.
I guess I had better quit posting at NH for a while. It will be a miracle if they allow the posts I put up to remain.
June 7, 2008, 2:09:49 PM EDT – Like – Reply
dogcatcher
keep up the good work j$.
you gotta love the hounds though. best laughs on the web.
June 7, 2008, 2:16:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Crash says I cannot be helped:
If I did not think that my post would be deleted I probably would say something like this:
Hasn't Obama referred to himself as being black? Isn't "black" a much more severe term than "tan"? Are you prepared to refer to all people who call African Americans "black" as racists? Wasn't the person who crafted the Camelot phrase trying to diminish any racial distinction between JFK and Obama, rather than enhance the distinction?
I am not alone, Crash. "Camelot with a tan" or "Kennedy with a tan" is not as obvious a racist slur as you imagine. As a number of posters have stated, the phrase has been used by a huge number of liberal internet sites and pundits.
If you still want to maintain that it is somehow a racist slur, you have got a lot of explaining to dol.
June 7, 2008, 2:50:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
The mods seem to be taking a doggie nap today. Several posts are still there that would be instantly deleted otherwise. I suspect that when they wake up from their snooze, they will 'clean up' the record with a mass purge. But who knows? They might surprise us by actually not stifling all dissent this time.
June 7, 2008, 3:05:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Wenchie
J$...Some just dont want to spend the time looking for and at the big picture...
That would run counter to their agenda....
Its easier to remain ignorant than informed....
June 7, 2008, 3:22:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
The interesting thing about the phrase "Camelot with a tan" is that it was first uttered by Robin Givhen, the well-known Africian-American fashion editor at the Washington Post.
Givhen is rather infamous for the fashion-as-Rorschach-test hit pieces she does on political figures. Kathleen Harris of Florida fame and John Bolton are two memorable ones.
It's all very well and good for some of the Hounders to argue that the phrase is racist no matter the skin color of the person who utters it. But that is a point that they are going to have to make within a broader context than FNC and with full understanding that many people on both sides did not find it that way.
They can continue to argue that it's a poor choice of words with racist or racially insensitive connotations. They cannot realistically argue that the remark is emblematic of right wing racism or that it is so obviously pejorative that all but those who work for FNC would have found it so.
But since they all seem to have the IQs of dirt, I'm sure they will continue to try.
June 7, 2008, 3:54:37 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
By the way, I think both Mrs. Obama and Mrs. McCain are lovely. But I think Michelle Obama looks more approachable than does Cindy McCain. That's important.
I enjoy that McCain wants a modern sophisticated "edginess" to her style. For goodness sake praise the lord! That's far more interesting than the attractive but safe look that most pols and pol spouses go for. However Cindy has a startling austere almost lupine look to start with. She needs edgy elan, not edgy edginess, if you get my drift.
Michelle should just do what she's doing. She looks great!
My only criticism of brilliant and beautiful Megyn Fox, who provided the coverage, is that-- boy, does she need a stylist!
Is Michelle's all booked? :D
June 7, 2008, 4:22:09 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
The interesting thing about the phrase "Camelot with a tan"
by cec
I am guessing, just guessing, that this whole 'c wih a t' thing is like the 'n' word. People of color throw it around like a football and it's hunkie dorie. The nanosecond anyone other than a person of color uses it in any context, it's immediately "racism."
Maybe on the clucker can elaborate on this subject as she tosses "racist" around like a football, too. She claims to be the judge of anything and everything attached to race. No?
June 7, 2008, 4:43:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Crash Chloride
People of color throw it around like a football and it's hunkie dorie. The nanosecond anyone other than a person of color uses it in any context, it's immediately "racism."
olby sucks | Homepage | 06.07.08 - 4:48 pm
See that is where you are misunderstanding the issue. It is not hunkie dorie. Just because a race uses a term that is offensive to themselves does not make it okay for them or anyone. It doesn't matter that Robin Givhan said it first, she should have left it at Camelot.
It is also apparent that Megan Kelly used it to remind everyone that Michelle Obama is black which is a big issue to the racists in the country. The term Jackie-esque was used several times why was that not good enough if the point of the discussion was style and not politics.
_
June 7, 2008, 4:51:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
> It is also apparent that Megan Kelly used it to remind everyone that Michelle Obama is black
Yeah, because they couldn't see that by looking at the picture of her on the screen. Yikes, the deep thinking going on here!
The term is quoted hundreds of times without anyone complaining, is used on CNN without anyone complaining, but as soon as it is quoted on Fox...it's raaacist!
Such mindless demagoguery.
June 7, 2008, 4:57:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
VinceP1974
Crash is saying that to notice that someone is black is so offensive that no one other than someone similarly stricken should be allowed to verbalize such a obvious observation.
June 7, 2008, 4:59:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Crash Chloride
Such mindless demagoguery.
johnny dollar | Homepage | 06.07.08 - 5:02 pm
Not really because I have said no matter who uses it, it is wrong. Point me to a blog where they are condeming CNN for it and I will be happy to post the same there.
_
June 7, 2008, 4:59:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply
tony
It is also apparent that Megan Kelly used it to remind everyone that Michelle Obama is black which is a big issue to the racists in the country. The term Jackie-esque was used several times why was that not good enough if the point of the discussion was style and not politics.
_
Crash Chloride | 06.07.08 - 4:56 pm | #
Yeh, because had Megan not mentioned it everyone would forget that Obamma's wife is black.(Sracasm intended)
June 7, 2008, 5:00:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Crash Chloride
VinceP1974 | Homepage | 06.07.08 - 5:04 pm |
That's not what I am saying at all, you are putting words in my mouth.
_
June 7, 2008, 5:01:25 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Crash Chloride
Yeh, because had Megan not mentioned it everyone would forget that Obamma's wife is black.(Sracasm intended)
tony | 06.07.08 - 5:05 pm
Like Vince, you are putting words in my mouth. If you want to deny that Fox does not make a point of pushing Obama's race go right ahead, you'd be wrong but its a free country.
_
June 7, 2008, 5:02:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
> Point me to a blog where they are condeming CNN for it and I will be happy to post the same there
Do you honestly believe there is any blog, anywhere, dimwitted enough to make such a complaint? I haven't seen a single complaint of "racist" about the hundreds of quotations of that phrase--until the deep thinkers at the kennel decided it must be racist, because it was quoted on Fox.
I guess there is one blog that dimwitted after all.
June 7, 2008, 5:03:20 PM EDT – Like – Reply
VinceP1974
The only people obsessed with race is you, him, his church, the leftist news media and leftists in general.
The rest of us are quite bored with the whole race thing.. because we transcended race a long long time ago.
June 7, 2008, 5:04:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Crash Chloride
The rest of us are quite bored with the whole race thing.. because we transcended race a long long time ago.
VinceP1974 | Homepage | 06.07.08 - 5:09 pm
If you are denying that racism is a thing of the past I sugget that you need to get out into the world a bit more.
_
June 7, 2008, 5:05:47 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Crash Chloride
johnny dollar | Homepage | 06.07.08 - 5:08 pm
I notice that you used CNN in your comments here but not in your post. Is it possible that you just made it up that CNN used it?
_
June 7, 2008, 5:07:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply
VinceP1974
I named the racists in the sentence you left out. Try to read better, sport.
June 7, 2008, 5:07:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
> I notice that you used CNN in your comments here but not in your post. Is it possible that you just made it up that CNN used it?
is it possible you are making that up? Please when you reference my posts try to tell the truth. This isn't newshounds you know, and we don't believe in doctoring other people's quotes here.
June 7, 2008, 5:09:23 PM EDT – Like – Reply
VinceP1974
I notice that you used CNN in your comments here but not in your post. Is it possible that you just made it up that CNN used it?
_
Crash Chloride | 06.07.08 - 5:12 pm | #
LOL... So lazy aren't you
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0805/22/cnr.03.html
MACMANUS: Jeans are as all American as apple pie. And in the fashion world, no matter what they look like, they're in fashion. And so it's no surprise that Cindy McCain would choose a spread with jeans and a nice shirt.
COSTELLO: Interestingly, while Cindy McCain chose jeans for her "Vogue" spread, her likely competitor, Michelle Obama, chose a traditional black dress with pearl earrings for her "Vogue" spread.
As the "Washington Post" described it, it was as if Michelle Obama was saying, "I'm not some scary other. I am Camelot with a tan."
Whether these images will sway voters one way or another remains to be seen, but we're still in the getting to know you stage.
(on camera): In short, expect both would-be first ladies to be much more visible in the future. So we can get to know them.
Carol Costello, CNN, Washington.
June 7, 2008, 5:09:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Crash Chloride
My bad I was looking at your list of sites and assumed you would put all the sites in one place.
See progressives can admit mistakes now lets see some of this on your side.
_
June 7, 2008, 5:12:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
Now Vince, be reasonable. He didn't believe anyone would actually look at my post, see the quote from CNN, see the link to the transcript, and actually click it. He thought people would just believe it because he said so. That's kind of a side-effect of hanging around the kennel too long.
June 7, 2008, 5:12:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Crash Chloride
johnny dollar | Homepage | 06.07.08 - 5:17 pm
Please read above
_
June 7, 2008, 5:13:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
> See progressives can admit mistakes now lets see some of this on your side.
Oh that's nothing new here. I remember admitting a mistake a few months back. I thought I was wrong about something, but I wasn't.
June 7, 2008, 5:13:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Crash Chloride
johnny dollar | Homepage | 06.07.08 - 5:18 pm
So this is your response to my admitting I was wrong? No reference to your 5:17 post which clearly jumped the gun?
Typical
_
June 7, 2008, 5:18:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
You get as good as you give. You jumped the gun and tried to suggest I was making something up. So you get return fire in kind. Snark begets snark. We're even now, and if you don't try to question my honesty again I'll have no reason to shoot back.
June 7, 2008, 5:22:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
I think that Givhen coined the expression in a triumphant sense- the first African-American candidate for president-- hurray! All the elegance of a Bouvier-Kennedy but in an African-American package! Hurray!...
We've heard quite a lot of that lately and I've no real problem with it.
Megyn Kelly used Givhen's expression in the sense of that she would if quoting Tony Morrison's description of Bill Clinton being the first black president-- '"Camelot with a tan" is the praise she received from another prominent African-American.' Other mainline sources have echoed that.
But Crash, he thinks the expression is wrong no matter who uses it.
Fine. I've no desire whatsoever to argue it with him. He can take it up with the Washington Post, Daily Kos, Columbia Journalism Review, etc... He can accuse them all of showing racism. What he can't do is to call this specifically right wing racism or blinkered right wing racial insensitivity.
That's quite a sea change from the post that started this whole tripe in the first place. Certainly a change from the responses to that post...
June 7, 2008, 5:24:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Crash Chloride
johnny dollar | Homepage | 06.07.08 - 5:27 pm
It's kind of like I tell my youngest who has a history of telling whoppers. Honey, if you didn't fib so much it would be easier to believe what you say.
_
June 7, 2008, 5:25:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Crash Chloride
Cecelia | 06.07.08 - 5:29 pm
You are correct that this cannot be called strictly rightwing racism but it is just another example of how Fox likes to throw up all kinds of BS to keep people from focusing on the real issues.
_
June 7, 2008, 5:27:19 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
> It's kind of like I tell my youngest who has a history of telling whoppers. Honey, if you didn't fib so much it would be easier to believe what you say.
Exactly. I'm glad we found a point of agreement. It's hard to believe anything from the newshounds given the hundreds of times they've been caught misrepresenting and outright lying. But I'm above that. I take each of their latest little tricks at face value, on its own. It's not my fault that they keep turning out to be fallacious.
> Fox likes to throw up all kinds of BS
And CNN. Don't forget them. They're doing it too. And the CJR. And Daily Kos. They're all in it together, to keep people from focusing on real issues.
June 7, 2008, 5:28:30 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Well, Crash, if racism is something that is not "a thing of the past" then racial progress is something that is significant. Could that be the point that Givhen made with her comment and could Kelly have been reflecting the feeling inherent in that much quoted point?
June 7, 2008, 5:29:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Crash, you seem to want it both ways. You seem to want to say that racism is still very much an issue in American life, but that pointing to race, even when championing and pointing out racial progress, is "racism" too.
In a news piece about the fashion of the candidate's spouses, in which the much quoted...much celebrated expression is Givhen's one that in Michelle Obama we have all the elegance (and promise) of Camelot, but with the face of racial progress... how do see it as "racist" for Kelly to reference that?
June 7, 2008, 5:33:52 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Since you are over here, Crash, I am going to repeat what I said there here:
Crash,
Mr. Danny, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Yes, yours was a personal attack, as well as being untrue. No, I wasn't being thinned-skinned. My point was quite rational and cogent. I illustrated rather well that "tan" makes less of a racial distinction than black. Unless you are prepared to call everyone racist who refers to an African American as "black" then you cannot in all rationality and logic say that a person is a racist for calling an African American "tan." It is particularly absurd to do so when one is using a phrase that was coined by an African American. And the intent of the author of the phrase was to diminish racial distinctions rather than enhance them.
If you cannot see the rationality and logic of what I said, then that says much more about you than me.
June 7, 2008, 6:20:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
Oh no! Fox's racism has now spread to MSNBC. Not just that, but even Obama supporters are using the racist "Camelot with a tan" smear, as a handle no less:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/22/1054661.aspx#_ctl0____ctl0____ctl0___Comments___Comments__ctl39_NameLink
Yikes!
June 7, 2008, 6:25:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Mr Crash
I also want to say that your whole series of posts on this issue were beyond stupid and crazy. To say that they were rambling and incoherent would be a gross understatement. You could easily put any grain of thoughtfulness in your posts into the navel of a gnat and still have plenty of room for any sanity or rationality your stupid inane posts demonstrated: either on NH or here. May God protect you from the stupidity and yes . . . the absolute insanity that you have demonstrated on this day!
Since I, similar to what you said, was only attacking your posts, I know that you will not regard what I just said as a personal attack. Certainly you would not want to be that thinned skinned!
June 7, 2008, 6:31:18 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Dollar,
wow!
June 7, 2008, 6:32:53 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
hahahaha, Johnny!
June 7, 2008, 6:36:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fast Eddie
When I look at the comments to any News Hounds thread I am greeted with words to the effect that the webmaster will not post my comments. I guess I spoke truth to dingbat one time too many. Well, it was fun while it lasted. I will claim credit for putting many a NH fan into a bigger tizzy than the one they are already in 24/7 365 days a year.
June 7, 2008, 6:47:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Fast Eddie,
wonder why that hasn't happened to dollar.
June 7, 2008, 6:58:06 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
I don't know either. As I said above, I think the mods may be off duty today, because they not only delete anything I post, but also delete anybody who links to anything on my site.
I suspect they've installed a permament ban for Fast Eddie. I think they've not done so for me because Ellen wants to use anything I post there as another example of 'harrassment' in her plan to shut J$P down by getting my internet service cut off.
June 7, 2008, 7:03:33 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
I didn't know she is doing that. And they accuse my letter writing as being against free speech. I suspect that if she could show one of your regulars (i.e., fast eddie) was also harassing her, it would strengthen her case. Perhaps she is not smart enough to realize that.
If she is successful, I hope that you post her internet provider's address before you go. Ordinarily, I would not campaign to get NH shut down. Reclassified yes . . . but not shut down. But if they do that to you . . . all bets are off!
June 7, 2008, 7:17:50 PM EDT – Like – Reply
tony
Fast Essie: I welcome you to the proud group of people that have been banned from News Hounds. The only thing that would make me happier would be if I were somehow named worst person by Keith Olbermann.
Before they banned me they would change the wording in my comments.
June 7, 2008, 7:28:29 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
MJ is now threatening to put a piece of my post in their troll thread. He couldn't put my whole post there because then it would obvious that I was making too much sense.
He wants to call me a troll despite the fact that his comments have consistently been more trollish (normal definition) than anything I have said.
June 7, 2008, 7:34:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
You guys who have been banned.
Can you still see the comments? Or are you just banned from posting? Just curious. It is likely to happen to me soon.
June 7, 2008, 7:36:56 PM EDT – Like – Reply
tony
You can still see the comments, just cant post.
June 7, 2008, 7:44:36 PM EDT – Like – Reply
VinceP1974
You can go through a proxy server and get around the ban
June 7, 2008, 7:53:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply
vstol
Crash Chloride
See progressives can admit mistakes now lets see some of this on your side.
===
You are correct that this cannot be called strictly rightwing racism but it is just another example of how Fox likes to throw up all kinds of BS to keep people from focusing on the real issues.
===
What you, and many of your fellow hounds, continue to refuse to admit, what you are seemingly incapable of absorbing into you thought process despite all the evidence presented before you on a silver platter, is that "Camelot with a tan" is NOT racist, it is NOT derogatory in any manner and it is Neweshounds and their minions that "throw up (sic) all kinds of BS to keep people from focusing on the real issues."
Fashion is not the issue. The candidates wives are not the issue. "Camelot with a tan" is not the issue.
The issue is smearing people as racist just because of who you think they are and because, in your circles, it's cool. It is not cool. It is distructive. It is juvenile. It is hateful. It is the exact behavior that the smearers claim their targets possess. It is hurting the country.
It is an issue that anyone who cares one iota about the condition of political discourse in this country will not ignore. The solution is simple. Admit your mistake and vow not to repeat it. We'll be happy to move on and engage any and all in civil discussions of the issues.
June 7, 2008, 7:53:52 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
vstol, you are correct. We have to assume Crash's statement that for Megyn Kelly to quote "Camelot with a tan" is "all kinds of bs"... to deflect from the "real" issues.. because this is what Ellen deem it be.
Remember, Ellen had to issue a warning to her own blog follower progressives (who might have been for Hillary) not to criticize Michelle Obama. If such criticism is forbidden among progressives,, how much more would be any defense of the quote "Camelot with a tan" be forbidden among bystanders who wished to point it was coined by an African-America fashion maven.
Therefore, it's not just FNC that might throw out all kinds of bs...but also liberal Hlillary supporters who might do so as well.
But the liberals have already been warned to stop by Ellen. That just leaves us to dissent...to mention Givhen's race and take and the fact that Crash and Ellen are essentially telling an African-American woman that she should pay attention to racial progresss, but only express her delight in it in ways that accommodate them.
Any other way is just "all kinds of bs" to deflect from the real issues.
Isn't that convenient?...
June 7, 2008, 8:27:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
Before they banned me they would change the wording in my comments.
tony | 06.07.08 - 7:33 pm | #
ditto
June 7, 2008, 8:45:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Ditto here too. I've been banned there several dozen times through different proxy servers, but not in a couple of years. There are some hotels around the country that are banned too.
June 7, 2008, 9:03:20 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Fox Fan, what do you mean about hotels being "banned"?
June 7, 2008, 9:10:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
"Ditto here too. I've been banned there several dozen times through different proxy servers,"
How do you do that?
June 7, 2008, 9:31:49 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Deb has just clarified what she meant on the comments thread. Thought you guys might be interested.
June 7, 2008, 9:37:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
I suspect they are getting a little upset with me. I and the rest of you are making "wild accusations" according to Deb.
June 7, 2008, 9:39:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
Yeah, she explained herself. But she didn't explain what she meant by "it was clear where she was trying to go with the segment." She didn't explain why she didn't explain that the phrase wasn't Megyn Kelly's, that it has been quoted hundreds of times in various media, that it was a compliment toward Mrs Obama, or that the person who coined the phrase is in fact black herself.
Other than that, yeah, she "explained" herself!
June 7, 2008, 9:43:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
In response to Cece and OS, back when I used to post on NH regularly I was frequently travelling for work, and if I connected without proxy from the hotels they would ban the hotel public IPs.
Networks appear as a singular IP addresses which can be seen from the outside as a WAN IP. Those IPs are the ones that get banned. Therefore, if you're banned on a large network you're likely banning the entire network unless there are multiple incoming ISP connections for the LAN.
How you get proxy addresses banned, you use them and discard them once they're banned. Then you move to another proxy. They're free and all over the world for public use.
June 7, 2008, 10:03:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fast Eddie
The main thing about "progressives" is that they are not interested in any kind of "give and take" with those they disagree with. They are generally offended that one dares question their assumptions. All they really want to do is to rant undisturbed.
But now I need a new dingbat lefty website to go to where I can piss off some more "progressives". Can anybody point me in the right direction?
June 7, 2008, 10:04:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
You don't need to leave NHs, Fast Eddie. Do some research on what I just explained.
June 7, 2008, 10:06:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Vince P
Fast Eddie: Crooks and Liars blog?
June 7, 2008, 10:14:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
If you want to go small time, try eyesonfox.org. Sorry sknabt!
June 7, 2008, 10:16:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Well, Deb's "take" on things makes you wonder if she was even aware of what Givhan said in her article, although Deb assures us that she was aware that the description of "Camelot with a tan" did not originate with Megyn Kelly.
YOU can start by reading the link JD provides in the San Francisco Chronicle's replay of the WP's Robin Givhen's piece. There you will find that Cindy McCain wishes to define herself as someone quite outside of the realm of the regular political wife. Givhen's writes that the message of the Vogue photoopiece on Cindy McCain is "unmistakable" it says, "I am not a Stepford wife."
Going on in the piece you read that though McCain wishes to define herself as being outside the usual pol spouse, Michelle gladly embraces all the imagery of former first lady Jackie Kennedy and all the hopefulness that imagery implies. She is "Camelot with a tan", Givhen's exultantly procliaims.
Which brings us to the point of the Givhen's piece and the quote that Kelly used (which Deb thinks was unnecessary...)
Deb, just how useful do you think the chryon that Cindy McCain collects "patriotic pins" is to her quest to be "not the Stepford Wife"? How beneficial is the fact that she courts "high end designers" to her desire to express her "edgier" side via fashion?
The Kos folks got it...
CNN got it...
SFC got it...
Megyn Kelly got it...
In your quest for all dark moons to revolve around FNC, you didn't, Deb.
June 7, 2008, 11:04:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Crash Chloride
Cecelia | 06.07.08 - 11:09 pm
Mayhaps you should take these comment to Deb instead of playing for the home crowd. If you don't feel comfortable posting on the site send her an email.
_
June 7, 2008, 11:52:11 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Johnny,
Can you give me the link to the material on the MSNBC site you posted earlier. When I go to your link, what I saw earlier is no longer there.
June 8, 2008, 12:21:34 AM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
It's above posted at 6:30 pm. The link is still the same. Note the Obama defender posting, using "camelot with a tan" as his handle.
Of course the best one is the Kos link. That's classic. There's also one in Democratic Underground, but I didn't see the need to post 50 links.
June 8, 2008, 12:29:55 AM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Johnny
Still can't find there what I read earlier, but it is Ok. I found what I was looking for in another way,.
June 8, 2008, 12:41:48 AM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Crash,
Since you are over here and you don't agree with Cecelia, why don't you try to rebut her here in a clear and coherent way? If you can.
Of course, if you resort to your trollish tendencies and start making insults, you may be deleted. Just as Cecelia risks being deleted (and insulted) if she were to make her arguments at NH respectfully and rationally.
June 8, 2008, 12:47:55 AM EDT – Like – Reply
john t
Of course, if you resort to your trollish tendencies and start making insults,
danny | 06.08.08 - 12:52 am
How come you have to insult people? I said you were acting like a typical troll over at the NHs then you had to ask me why I was insulting you.
I guess you have different standards considering what blog you're on.
June 8, 2008, 2:14:10 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Fast Eddie
Fox Fan | 06.07.08 - 10:08 pm | #
Thanks for the info. I will look into that. I just cannot imagine NH without my insightful comments!
June 8, 2008, 2:25:21 AM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
JOhn T,
If anyone thought that what I said was a personal attack, my post would have been deleted.
If you made half of the insulting (trollish) comments over here that you do in the kennel. . . well I can't speak for Johnny . . . but methinks there is a good chance that you would be deleted and perhaps . . . in time . . . banned. Same goes for Crash.
June 8, 2008, 2:35:35 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Well, thanks for the suggestion, Crash, but I'd rather stay here and "play to the home crowd". :D
There are many neighborhoods that a person may cruise though and view, but feel it best not to step a toe out of the car.
June 8, 2008, 8:08:47 AM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Speaking of which, many posters here might be interested in the new policy that has just been announced:
Effective immediately, ALL comments must be on topic and civil. Any flames, name-calling, etc., from anyone, will be deleted on sight. Under no circumstances should trolls be engaged or debated on the public threads. Readers are to IGNORE them, as troll comments are deleted on sight as quickly as possible.
News Hounds provides the Off Topic Forum where you can debate in whatever way you like on whatever subject you like, free of interference from us. However, when commenting on the main blog, you must abide by these simple rules at all times. Repeat offenders will be banned, possibly without further notice.
http://forum.newshounds.us/viewtopic.php?t=19887&sid=122f47606499b8c66f2a7186be1759a2
Since there have been (on the Kelly thread) many comments that that have been off topic and grossly uncivil (including flaming and name-calling. . . . and these posts have not been deleted . . . I had no idea that this new policy is in place.
June 8, 2008, 8:11:26 AM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
From the same thread, here is another little kernel of information from a moderator that may be of interest.
We welcome debate and opposing viewpoints, though we think mostly they're wrong. But there is a respectful, gentle way to debate - Bob S comes to mind - and with humor, which I know y'all have, maybe you can score a point. This constant fighting, throwing verbal punches and below the belt kicks, isn't going to change any minds and it's distressing for us, day after day.
Bet you didn't realize that, did you? I know I didn't.
June 8, 2008, 8:19:25 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Fast Eddie
danny | 06.08.08 - 8:24 am | #
Obviously, the gang at NH are a bunch of liars. I can't think of one "opposing viewpoint" ever made by anybody that did not set off another binge of Tourrette's Syndrome among the NH crowd.
June 8, 2008, 9:34:26 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Vince P
To hear john t complain about people who insult others gave me a good laugh.
John t would have viritually nothing to say if it didn't involve insulting someone.
June 8, 2008, 9:58:58 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
To hear john t say anything gives me a good laugh. The guy is a compulsive liar; either that or one of the most naive, gullible people on the planet.
June 8, 2008, 10:27:22 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Fast Eddie
Fox Fan | 06.08.08 - 10:32 am | #
The applicable term is "dingbat leftist".
June 8, 2008, 10:49:51 AM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
ok let's watch the name calling guys.
June 8, 2008, 11:03:07 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Sorry, I didn't think calling a spade a spade was name calling. I can see how describing a factual negative quality could be construed as such, however.
June 8, 2008, 12:04:27 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
Johnny,
I have to say that you are being too nice. Yes, I respect your not banning someone on a whim. But there are people here who have shown that they are not going to obey the rules. If you will look at the thread in NH that you last commented on you will find that there are people here who will not obey the rules for either your site on the NH site. NH too would be better off getting rid of those people. According to the thread from the forum that I referenced, people are being run off from NH because some bullies (trolls) are being allowed to run amuck.
I think that for the good of this site, it is time to ban some people.
June 8, 2008, 6:04:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
No John t,
I have to the best of my ability played by the rules in both sites.
Since you are interested, one of the people I had in mind is you. When Chrish speaks of people who engage in "constant fighting, throwing verbal punches and below the belt kicks," . . . well, that is a perfect description of your behavior. Not to mention the fact that you are consistently off topic both at NH and here. All of your recent posts at NH have been off topic and you have really hijacked their thread in to talking about things that are completely divorced from the article.
What you have done, in theory, is a no no for the NH site. See not only the rules at the bottom of the page, but Chrish's "new" policy regarding posts. That is, posts are supposed to be on topic and civil. However, you are not interested in debate, you are only interested in starting food fights. For those reasons, you are one of the biggest trolls I have met on any site, by any reasonable definition of the word troll.
You are one of the reasons I soured on the News Hounds site. Judging from Chrish's thread, you are cone of those ausing other people to be unhappy because of the rotten tone you set.
What you have done at New Hounds, you are also attempting to do here. Just like at New Hounds practically all your posts here are off topic, and you seem to want to do little but whine about the rules (try to embarrass Johnny) and start food fights.
I think that you should be banned from every adult site in the universe until you grow up and start behaving like an adult.
Now, go ahead break the rules again and copy and paste this off topic post on the "Camelot With a Tan" thread. I would love for the folks at NH to see what I said to you . . . just as I was happy with your most recent cut and pasting of one of my other posts.
June 8, 2008, 7:47:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply
danny
ausing = causing
June 8, 2008, 7:49:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
"I can't think of one "opposing viewpoint" ever made by anybody that did not set off another binge of Tourrette's Syndrome among the NH crowd.
Fast Eddie | 06.08.08 - 9:39 am | # "
Johnny, I do believe that the Tourette's Syndrome Binge deserves comment of the day.
June 8, 2008, 11:40:52 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Vince P
danny: I"m not surprised by the lack of response.
June 9, 2008, 12:53:50 AM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
I don't remember seeing this on NH.....
"Chris Matthews got his start in politics by writing speeches for Jimmy Carter and on Monday night the Hardball host returned to his roots when he espoused an anti-war screed he urged Barack Obama to use as a way to attack Hillary Clinton from the left: "Here's what I think Obama should say".......
But, they did post this....
"Once Concerned That John McCain Might "Snap" and Lose the Election, Neil Cavuto Now Urges Him to "Explode" and Go "Nutty",
by melanie
Hacks!
June 11, 2008, 3:27:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply
olby sucks
I've noticed that 'newhounds' post numbers have taken a turn for the worst. Just the same ol' 3 or 4 posters saying the same thing over and over again.
