Thursday Cable News Links and Open Thread
Wednesday's numbers: FNC wins Kennedy coverage, Beck top cable news program in the demo.
Beck ad update. Target: Fox.
Radio Shack denies boycott.
Live chat: John Roberts. CNN: self-parody?
Truce abuse. Scholars discuss O'Reilly.
Kennedy coverage recap. Hotline after dark.
Updated through the day. Use our valuable bandwidth to post your cable news comments in today's open thread. Standard rules apply. fox news cable news
Blackflon
The whiners are at it again over coverage of Kennedy's death at Fox News.
"Fox Fan Email" Barely Mentions Kennedy's death
Reported by Ellen - Wed 8:33 PM
Coverage throughout the day....not good enough for the whiners.
Excellent coverage by Brett Bair and Shep Smith.......not good enough for the whiners.
At least half of O'Reilly's program covered Kennedy....not enough for the whiniers.
I fully expect Ellen, the chief liar, and her crew of poodles to disparage most of the coverage by Fox.
Because that is what they do.
They have nothing else.
August 27, 2009, 7:59:15 AM EDT – Like – Reply
ImNotBlue
RE: The Scholars
If you really want a laugh, read some of the comments to the "story." Now THAT'S funny!
August 27, 2009, 9:23:06 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
"Fox Fan Email" Barely Mentions Kennedy's death
Reported by Ellen - Wed 8:33 PM
Goodness! That Fox Fan is pen-pals with just about everyone!...
August 27, 2009, 10:35:36 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Haggis
Because that is what they do.
They have nothing else.
Blackflon | Homepage | 08.27.09 - 8:04 am |
I suppose you could really say the same thing about your good self....In regard NH/Keith/NBC/MSNBC
Onto O'reilly. It must be embarrassing for him to have to bring on a investigative journalist (Brian Ross ABC) from another network...for the facts....As a good jurnalist Brian pointed out that this story (rumor that Leon Panetta had a screaming match) was an unconfirmed report, and that he (Brian) can't say for sure it actually happened.
What ever happened to the crack team of investigators at the Factor? I'm sure Jesse Watters could have got that name for o'reilly with a quick ambush. Bill was so desperate for the name....He turned to threats of torture....Waterboarding poor Brian. Brian looked gobsmacked by this threat...and promptly finished the interview.
August 27, 2009, 11:29:42 AM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
If all you are going to do is parrot lies from smear sites you aren't going to have a long life here. This was a news report, not a rumor. Ross did not say it was unconfirmed, in fact he had multiple sources. As for not being sure it happened, he was talking about a sequence of events, not his reporting on the flare-up, which he stood by thru the entire interview. And how did Brian Ross "promptly finish the interview"? Did he get up and walk out? Did he say that's it's I'm finished? Or was O'Reilly the one who finished the interview?
I've told you I don't like lies here, and while there is a fine line between opinion and misinformation, I'm beginning to see that line more clearly in your case.
Don't pull this again. I have spoken.
August 27, 2009, 11:49:21 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
Bill was so desperate for the name....He turned to threats of torture....Waterboarding poor Brian. Brian looked gobsmacked by this threat...and promptly finished the interview.
Haggis | 08.27.09 - 11:34 am | #
Do you sincerely believe that?
August 27, 2009, 12:03:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
Cecelia | 08.27.09 - 10:40 am | #
Cecelia - I think you would make a great addition to James Taranto's "Best of the Web" writing team.
August 27, 2009, 12:05:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
Blackflon | Homepage | 08.27.09 - 8:04 am | #
FNC provided excellent and respectful coverage of Senator Kennedy's death yesterday. You are quite correct, the hounds have nothing.
August 27, 2009, 12:11:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply
chris
maybe we should demand haggis accounts for everything that his favorite news channel does (non fox news)
every single lie/distortion/bias
Haggis, we get it, you dont like fox news. but stop bringing every single thing here, there is another site for you to do that
August 27, 2009, 12:32:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Haggis
Don't pull this again. I have spoken.
johnny dollar | Homepage | 08.27.09 - 11:54 am |
I'll take your mighty words onboard.....Give them a chew.....and recalibrate if required
Do you sincerely believe that?
Ashley | 08.27.09 - 12:08 pm |
Do you still believe in WMD?
Didn't you hear the threat?....Bill said he'd take Fox security down to ABC studios and deliver waterboearding there and then....That's a threat in anyone's book. We can only hope ABC security is up to the job
August 27, 2009, 12:49:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Haggis
Ashley...how do you explain this from TVNewser....That cable news networks are among those with largest gains this summer: MSNBC is up 16%, HLN is up 18% (that's primetime for summer 09 vs. summer 08).
There was an election just around the corner (08)....So MSNBC have done a good job keeping viewers from 08 and adding to them....The same goes for HLN.
August 27, 2009, 1:03:30 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ImNotBlue
Haggis can't actually believe what he wrote there... either that, or he never saw the segment. Anyone who did, couldn't possibly come to that conclusion.
August 27, 2009, 1:04:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Blackflon
You are quite correct, the hounds have nothing.
Ashley | 08.27.09 - 12:16 pm | #
I'm pretty much convinced that Ellen and her poodles would spit on their own grandmothers grave in order to attack Fox.
They really present no factual information about many of their claims. They spend most of their time presuming what Fox people really mean when they speak about an issue.
Their claim about Fox being a propaganda network has yet to be backed up with real facts. Because they say so it not reason enough.
Their writers put out a post and the poodles all get in line to see who can make the most childish remarks or claims.
In their eyes they are somebody when in fact they are merely a bunch of wannabes.
August 27, 2009, 1:21:16 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
In my humble opinion, anyone who could look at that BOR/Brian Ross segment and truly believe that Bill was "desperate" and that he made a serious threat to Brian Ross and ABC, and that Ross was frightened...completely lacks any any ability to use critical thinking in their analysis. Possible causes for such skewed vision must be an IQ in John T range, or an abnormal upper brain function.
Haggis, isn't it great that BOR wins in that 18-34 demo you were talking up yesterday?
"That cable news networks are among those with largest gains this summer: MSNBC is up 16%, HLN is up 18% (that's primetime for summer 09 vs. summer 0."
Well, 16% of zero is zero. I note you failed to mention what FNC is up.
August 27, 2009, 1:32:07 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
Ashley...how do you explain this from TVNewser....That cable news networks are among those with largest gains this summer: MSNBC is up 16%, HLN is up 18% (that's primetime for summer 09 vs. summer 0.
There was an election just around the corner (0....So MSNBC have done a good job keeping viewers from 08 and adding to them....The same goes for HLN.
Haggis | 08.27.09 - 1:08 pm | #
This is simply a typical Haggis post, omitting key information in order to give a false impression. He omitted key facts from the article he cited in a feeble attempt to imply that MSNBC and HLN are the only cable nets growing. Of course, when all the facts are considered, fair and balanced, we see that Haggis is, once again, errrrr, deceptive.
Now, let's leave the deception of Haggistown and return back to the trugh of Ashleyville.
Haggis intentionally left off the stats about FNC. Here is what TVNewser said, I've bolded the part that Haggis omitted:
In the report, three cable news networks are among those with largest gains this summer: MSNBC is up 16%, HLN is up 18%, and Fox News is up 37% (that's primetime for summer 09 vs. summer 08). On the summer top 10 lists, Fox News ranks #3 in primetime Total Viewers and #6 in total day Total Viewers.
Now, Haggis didn't mention this, but since he claims to be a statistics expert, even he would have to agree that regarding growth rate, comparing 16% for MSNBC's smaller audience vs. 37% of FNC's larger audience is quite easy. Simply stated, for about every one new viewer MSNBC brought in, FNC brought in four.
Therefore, Haggis' declaration of
"So MSNBC have done a good job keeping viewers from 08 and adding to them" clearly indicates that FNC has done a far better job of keeping viewers from '08 and adding to them.
When Haggis omits facts about FNC, it means bad news for MSNBC, HLN, and CNN.
BAck to your original question, "Ashley...how do you explain this from TVNewser...."
It's easy to explain Haggis, FNC is just that good!
August 27, 2009, 2:40:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Richard
While Im not new here...I only started posting not far ago......I have a question J$.
Other than free speech....why do you put up with Haggis?
I have never seen a truthful post from him that didnt come from another site. Ive seen you catch him in many lies and
Misinformation about Fox.
It seems clear to me hes just here to cause trouble and bash Fox with lies. If he watches Fox news he must do it with the sound off and then gets his Facts from the hater sites. He rarely IMHO has a post thats his own. In fact yesterday he posted info from TVNewser without telling us that. Thats plagiarism and would get him bounced from most sites right away.
Please know I dont mean to criticize. Its a real question .I assume theres something about Haggis I wasnt here for.
August 27, 2009, 2:54:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
Well if you knew all about Haggis's past here, you'd wonder that much more about why we would "put up" with him!
Haggis does not have a great record as far as accuracy, honesty, and fairness go. But we try not to do permanent bans here. There are only two people banned from this site. (Well, maybe one-and-a-half, but I'm not going into that here.) I generally default in favor of more participation not less, and by now most people know what they are getting from Haggis.
August 27, 2009, 2:59:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Blackflon
The story in the LA Timed about Beck's audience shows that the more the liberals go after Fox the better the ratings.
The people can go there and make their own decisions about watching.
On the other hand you have people attacking Fox when they haven't spent more than 10 minutes watching the various programs.
Really now, who are the ignorant ones?
August 27, 2009, 3:38:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Blackflon
Spring Break on Cavuto!
Reported by Guest Blogger - August 27, 2009 - comments
Reported by Brian
Cavuto was questioning the use of taxpayer funds for "sex related studies"
The logical question for the Poodles to ask would be "how do these studies stimulate(no pun intended) they economy.
Of course, we know that the Poodles do not deal in logic.
Just another poor excuse to let the dogs out of the pound.
August 27, 2009, 4:06:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
Johnny, this positively deserves one of your links:
http://chickaboomer.blogspot.com/2009/08/keith-olbermann-false-prophet.html
The picture and the comments are priceless!
August 27, 2009, 4:16:00 PM EDT – Like – Reply
chris
Blackflon | Homepage | 08.27.09 - 4:11 pm |
it doesnt, more gov'nt waste
August 27, 2009, 4:27:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
Grammie - thanks for the link.
I bet Olby named his pet Elephant "Billo". This calls for a photoshop.
August 27, 2009, 4:31:30 PM EDT – Like – Reply
chris
Grammie | 08.27.09 - 4:21 pm |
I still dont know what I win, LOL
August 27, 2009, 4:34:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
I'm grateful for your kind words, Ashley, but there's something you don't know about me.
I have a severe work related allergy.
Yes, I'm severely allergic to anything related to work.
It's not a trait that runs in my family, however, it does seem that I was born this way.
Please don't feel sorry for me. I attempt to live with this condition by assiduously avoiding anything that would cause an allergy flare-up.
I do try and do the best that I can, and naturally this means letting someone else do that for me.
(Thanks, again... )
August 27, 2009, 4:44:35 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
"either that, or he never saw the segment"
Yes.
August 27, 2009, 4:45:46 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Oh, how sweet, Grammie!
Keith Olbermann's first baby picture!
From the very first, he was a big baby, but I see that his mother had a hell of time expelling his head!
August 27, 2009, 4:50:15 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Blackflon
Beck #1 show in demo!
Is that the REAL demo or the fake Olbermann demo?
August 27, 2009, 5:50:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
Olby is the number 1 rated cable news show in the 18 to 55 mentally deranged demo. That's the real Olby demo.
He handily beat BOR who came in at a very meager 405th place in that demo.
August 27, 2009, 6:39:02 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Re: Target: Fox
We've certainly come a long way from the days when media people viewed boycotts as a method of squelching dissent, to now, where a media related site practically begs an interest group to boycott a news network.
I heartily disapprove of Glenn Beck's statement calling the president racist, but where was the outrage when Pres. Bush was called that? When he was accused of not caring for people of color?
For that matter MSNBC DAILY spends its time accusing Obama policy critics of being racists.
MSNBC daily does a scatter-gun strafing of ALL AND SUNDRY inconvenient dissenters from White House policy, linking them to white supremacists and domestic terrorists.
Glenn Beck's remark hardly touches MSNBC's massive effort to engender racial strife and divisiveness for political expediency.
Would Medialite take the same studiedly nonjudgmental and strictly factual tone (that media outlets are only capable of effecting when covering controversial steps or lapses taken or made by liberals) if a conservative group went after David Shuster and Contessa Brewer for their constant efforts at smearing Obama critics?
August 27, 2009, 6:43:25 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
And studies show that the 405th place was due to the one viewer from the UK.
August 27, 2009, 6:45:20 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
"http://chickaboomer.blogspot.com/2009/08/keith-olbermann-false-prophet.html"
Bravo! :+: :lol:
August 27, 2009, 7:34:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
Richard | 08.27.09 - 2:59 pm | #
Richard, I whole heartedly agree with you.
I'm also sure that you agree with me that Johnny's opinion is the only one that counts and he carries free speech almost to a fault.
That's one of the reasons I luv him so!
August 27, 2009, 7:40:11 PM EDT – Like – Reply
puck30
OMG! 3 mil. for Beck? How will MSNBC and the rest of the media stop him & the FNC Juggernaut?
I can't see how making this boycott FNC (whole network) will work. The backlash this will have on the rest cable/broadcast news will be something we have never seen before.
This is also an old trick that use to work for the MSM in the old days. Anybody remember when they went after Laura Schlessinger? In music, it was Seals & Crofts (anybody remember that?) C&C Cola? I use three off the board examples to show just how really powerful the MSM once was.
As FNC becomes more and more the go to channel, MSNBC will become more and more unhinged, even dangerous in their speak.
We might be looking at Cable ratings next year for FNC that none of us ever thought possible for any cable news network.
Yeah! The MSN is in extreme danger here when the number one cable show not on FNC, is reduced to calling Americans names, debating no one and hiding in a bathtub.
August 27, 2009, 7:50:14 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
Scratch this. It must have been left in "copy".
This is what I meant:
And studies show that the 405th place was due to the one viewer from the UK.
Ashley | 08.27.09 - 6:50 pm | #
So, bravo again! :+: :lol: :lol:
August 27, 2009, 7:57:03 PM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
Still at it I see...........you compare Beck's verbal criticism of Obama and it subsequent treatment in the press, with Bush's treatment during and in the aftermath of Katrina?
With Bush the proof was there for the World to see, if not Bush himself then, his incompetent administration. What is Beck's proof? The World is still watching.
As to Beck's popularity, have you considered that many may be tuning in just to see the side show. The clown of Fox News, how hilarious.
Now in the spirit of Free Speech, let's see how much of this post makes it to the blog. lol
August 27, 2009, 8:43:50 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ramjet
NH comment from the day before the Inauguration-needs to be posted once a week:
by the summer fox news will be some backwater cable channel without any access to the White House except for some guy with a microphoe yelling questions from a bush at Lafayette Park.
Yeah So What | 01.19.09 - 8:19 pm | #
August 27, 2009, 8:44:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
cee
I caught Beck's show Weds...Limbaugh was interviewed on the phone and Rove was on also. It was a good show.
Beck, love him or hate him, is appealling to a large portion of the population. Limbaugh has withstood many calls for boycotts but once a personality hits a certain total audience and is honest and loyal to them, it is heard to silence them.
FNC may have some tough decisions ahead if the left decides to go for broke. It could get ugly.
Funny.....I think MSNBC would be much more vulnerable to a boycott of their advertisers. That tactic should be considered if the FNC boycott gets much bigger.
August 27, 2009, 8:50:22 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
" let's see how much of this post makes it to the blog. lol"
You seem to have this site confused with another, perhaps the newshounds. We don't censor differences of opinion. We don't ban people, or rewrite their posts, or publish their IP addresses, for disagreeing. So if you are going to suggest otherwise, you had better be ready with chapter and verse, or else think twice before trying to smear this site.
Oh I almost forgot... lol
August 27, 2009, 8:56:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply
chris
olby furthed his attacks on fox viewers tonight. he needs to resign or get fired, MSNBC is run by a bunch of morons
August 27, 2009, 9:04:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Goodness! That Fox Fan is pen-pals with just about everyone!...
Cecelia | 08.27.09 - 10:40 am | #
My email specifically mentioned Kennedy. I believe "murderer" and "hyperpartisan" came up.
August 27, 2009, 9:05:32 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
Roadie, do you never tire of acting put upon?
August 27, 2009, 9:09:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
Now you spoiled it!
I was going to congratulate you on allowing the whole post.
Been awhile since I've been Stateside, but you seem obsessed with one and only one Blog. Do you think they are alone, why the obsession?
I get my information in the frozen north, remember? Here's one blogs take on that excellent show of Beck's, with Rush, that Cee mentioned.
http://redtory.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/the-outer-limits%E2%80%A6/
August 27, 2009, 9:12:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
I have allowed 38 posts today in this thread alone. Are you going to congratulate me for each one of them? I'd advise you to get off the subject of blog admin and onto the subject of cable news.
August 27, 2009, 9:14:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Ouch! That was a caustic 'lol'!
lol
August 27, 2009, 9:15:12 PM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
From what I read, one blog is a frequent topic of conversation here and your cable news is not my cable news (we've done that).
Just thought you might like a new blog to tear apart and criticize and share my views on the racism displayed during Katrina.......I am sure the videos are out there if anyone needs a refresher.
Perhaps someone here can actually explain Beck's logic. How is Obama a racist, I'm all ears, because so far his logic escapes me.
August 27, 2009, 9:32:07 PM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
Ouch! That was a caustic 'lol'!
lol
Fox Fan | 08.27.09 - 9:20 pm | #
You think so Fox Fan? My, you live a sheltered life.
August 27, 2009, 9:35:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ZoneDaiatlas
Did anyone see Countdown with Keith Olbermann? Keith Olbermann was kissing some major Maxine Water's butt when he dropped this bombshell... Keith is embarassed for being a white person because of all the racism and political dissent against the President...
August 27, 2009, 9:36:05 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
I read the comments on the "discuss" link. Wow. Just wow.
August 27, 2009, 9:41:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
I had forgotten that there were no white people affected by Katrina...
So Glenn Beck's remark suggesting that the president harbors resentment toward white people is only wrong because Beck is unable to prove it to 14tr's liking...
Now THAT just says it ALL when it comes to the level of rationality you get in this sort of food fight.
August 27, 2009, 9:46:59 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
My email specifically mentioned Kennedy. I believe "murderer" and "hyperpartisan" came up.
Fox Fan | 08.27.09 - 9:10 pm | #
Maybe if you had said hyper-priapic, she would known you meant Teddy.
August 27, 2009, 10:07:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
So now Keith Olbermann has put himself at the center of his own ginned-up story/ partisan strategy of equating dissent with racism, by apologizing for being white.
My God. Has Tom Wolfe died or something?
Surely Keith Olbermann is a goldmine of cultural irony.
August 27, 2009, 10:13:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Al Frankenstein
oneforetheroad | 08.27.09 - 9:40 pm | #
Is right, Beck is no more than a comedian and a fear monger, his ratings are high because people like to watch trainwrecks and Beck is surely that. Beck is the Jerry Springer of cable news.
I don't think Beck is a racist though, I just think he has the Hannity/Olbermann/O'Reilly syndrome the insert foot into mouth syndrome.
Why do you think that CNN and Lou Dobbs especially let him leave they could not stand the guy.
August 27, 2009, 10:17:31 PM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
"Food fight? "
Sorry I am having trouble following your logic too. If I don't understand Beck, just maybe there are more people who fail to see the linkage.
Also I never said there were no white people affected by Katrina, so please don't put words in my mouth. Many poor white people and disabled people of both races were affected, it only added to the incompetence shown. "Great job, Brownie" comes to mind.
Are you simply refusing to explain Beck's logic or can't you explain it?
I find it hard to believe that a mixed race person is a racist, wouldn't he then be hating part of himself?
August 27, 2009, 10:24:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
You think so Fox Fan? My, you live a sheltered life.
oneforetheroad | 08.27.09 - 9:40 pm | #
You think so 14TR? I read
August 27, 2009, 10:25:52 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Richard
From what I read, one blog is a frequent topic of conversation here and your cable news is not my cable news (we've done that).
oneforetheroad | 08.27.09 - 9:37 pm
That brings up 2 questions.
1. If you have read so little of this blog that you think thats true......why dont you read a little more before you open your mouth and say somthing so dumb.
2. If you dont even watch Fox......why on earth would you be here or care about J$ defending Fox from lies?
Just what we need ANOTHER Fox news expert that NEVER watches Fox News!
August 27, 2009, 10:26:21 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Cecelia | 08.27.09 - 10:12 pm | #
Hyper-priapic. Should be WOTD for O'Reilly.
August 27, 2009, 10:29:19 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ramjet
From what I read, one blog is a frequent topic of conversation here [EXCELLENT POWERS OF OBSERVATION...POINT???] and your cable news is not my cable news (we've done that) [AND YOUR POINT???].
Just thought you might like a new blog to tear apart and criticize [HOW THOUGHTFUL....YET PATHETICALLY INANE] and share my views on the racism displayed during Katrina [COULD HAVE NOT BOTHERED TO SHARE-NO ONE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT LESS OF YOU IF YOU KEPT IT TO YOURSELF] .......I am sure the videos are out there if anyone needs a refresher. [LIKE THIS - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXKEF8JdIc ]
Perhaps someone here can actually explain Beck's logic. How is Obama a racist, I'm all ears, because so far his logic escapes me. [BECK USED OBAMA'S WRITINGS FROM HIS TWO AUTOBIOGRAPHIES, HIS MEMBERSHIP IN A BLACK NATIONALIST CHURCH, HIS STATEMENT ABOUT HIS GRANDMOTHER, HIS RUSH TO JUDGMENT OF SGT. CROWLEY AND OPED ABOUT LINCOLN, "A MORE PERFECT UNION."
oneforetheroad | 08.27.09 - 9:37 pm |
August 27, 2009, 10:31:13 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ImNotBlue
Will someone (out of the two or three) explain to me why it would possibly matter if Beck's audience was made up mostly of people "looking at the train wreck." What does it matter at all?
Additionally, please tell me how you THINK ratings are tabulated. There is importance to that... because if you understood how ratings come about, I doubt you come to such a foolish conclusion.
August 27, 2009, 10:42:42 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Oh, great, now 14tr has moved the bar on what he characterized as inarguable "there for the world to see" objective proof of Bush's racism (as seen in the handling of Katrina), to a standard based his premise that one can't harbor resentment against one's own race.
And he says I'm illogical...
Well, Keith Olbermann has begged to differed with you tonight, my friend...
August 27, 2009, 10:58:55 PM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
My, we are hostile tonight.
"Just what we need ANOTHER Fox news expert that NEVER watches Fox News!
Richard | 08.27.09 - 10:31 pm | # "
As to ramjet, I'll just leave him screaming from his corner.
Not really here to discuss Fox News, just that one aspect of it. You are right I don't even get Fox News so my exposure is Red Tory, for the most part, and other Canadian blogs. Freudian slip, I almost said Red Eye..........which was what brought me here in the first place, eons ago. Shouldn't malign other countries, even in jest.
Just thought I'd pop in and say hello.........but I see you are still rather inhospitable to foreign posters, so I'll say good night now.
August 27, 2009, 11:01:58 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
" had forgotten that there were no white people affected by Katrina..."
Cecelia, it isn't widely known but the final statistics painted a very different picture from what Shep and AC showed from the I-10 overpass.
At the time of Katrina New Orleans was about 60% black. The most deaths numerically ocurred inLLakeview and on the Lakefront which is virtually all white. The lower Ninth Ward flooding was slower than the torrents that rushed thru Lakeview.
That was why all the rooftop rescues we saw were in the Ninth Ward. The people in Lakeview didn't have enough time to save themselves.
Although there was significant loss of life in 95% white St Bernard, which is outside the levee system, their evacuation rate was much higher. An astounding statistic for St Bernard is that about half of all the building were destroyed and 98% of every structure in the Parish was damaged, with the majority significantly damaged.
And that' not even talking about the gulf coast and areas inland. My brother-in-law was in an area by the Wolf River where helicopters had to drop supplies originally b/c of the totally impassable roads.
There was so much more to Katrina and much of the blame heaped on GWB belonged to Ray Nagin, Kathleen Blanco and Mary Landrieu and the unbelievable scope of the disaster. 90,000 - NINETY THOUSAND SQUARE MILES were seriously affected.
I have family in Jackson. They lost power city wide, that far inland, and it was close to two weeks before it was all restored.
My Mama died at my home a month after Katrina in Tampa, we left New Orleans after my husband died a year or so before Katrina, at age 100.
We were able to bring her home and managed a Mass but no service at the crypt. We were happy to have that. When we first made the arrangements it was going to be she would be interred on the North Shore and then moved by my Dad later.
I can not begin to convey what the ride home along I-10 was like. We started seeing damage from Katrina before Pensacola. By Mobile it was serious widespread damage (the USS Alabama was knocked out of its concrete foundation and was listing.
The further down the coast we went the worse it got. It made the Camille disaster look puny b/c Camille was such a violent but compact storm. Through Ocean Springs, Biloxi, Gulfport, Pass Christian, Bay St Louis and on to Slidell it was total destruction even though I-10 is a few miles inland from the Gulf of Mexico.
And that was just the beginning for my poor beloved New Orleans. It literally looked, smelled and felt like we were trapped in black and white footage of Europe in WWII.
I usually stay away from this subject b/c it is so painful but sometimes I can't restrain myself.
Johnny, if you want to spike this I'll understand. At least I got it off my chest to myself.
August 27, 2009, 11:02:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
I won't spike it because it's fascinating reading and you did make a cable news connection at the start. Still, I'm hoping we won't be arguing Katrina for the rest of the night.
August 27, 2009, 11:05:35 PM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
Bully for Keith, I don't get him either.
Missed your chance, fertile ground here and you sent it away without making a convincing attempt to convert me.
Not to worry, up here even our Conservatives are probably too liberal for your liking..........that's why you have so much trouble breaking into the market and I am not a conservative by a long shot!
August 27, 2009, 11:11:20 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ramjet
"As to ramjet, I'll just leave him screaming from his corner...."-14TR
Misrepresentation, distortion, false premise, mischaracterization, rude...
".........but I see you are still rather inhospitable to foreign posters, so I'll say good night now."-14TR
Lie...
August 27, 2009, 11:13:57 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Fox Fan
Grammie | 08.27.09 - 11:07 pm | #
I was in LA for 3 days this week for work. I visited NOLA one night. Every street and building was under construction, and Bourbon St. was rife with beggars and swindlers. The French Quarter has digressed to slums and thugs.
August 27, 2009, 11:14:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Grammy,
Thanks for the reality check, as always.
And by no means do I mean that as a retort to 14tr.
Thanks for reminding ME of what this disaster was and of its personal cost.
August 27, 2009, 11:20:30 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
Thank you, Johnny.
I truly would have understood and didn't even realize I had made the cable connection till you pointed it out.
August 27, 2009, 11:23:58 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
"Just thought I'd pop in and say hello.........but I see you are still rather inhospitable to foreign posters, so I'll say good night now.
oneforetheroad | 08.27.09 - 11:06 pm | #
Oh, yeah, we could tell you were just popping in to say hello by your initial greeting of "still at it I see"....
"I get my information in the frozen north, remember?"
HA!
14tr makes a point of reminding everyone that he/she is Canadian, only to later suggest that a less friendly response than what 14tr deemed as being appropriate to her "still at it I see" greeting, is based upon xenophobia!
August 27, 2009, 11:31:41 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
Cecelia, you did it again. I had to go to the dictionary to look up hyper priapic.
Once I learned the meaning naturally I had to go find the Post and peruse the comments which is when I came across this little gem.
""How the FOX plans to muzzle any mention of Sen.Kennedy" that should have been the title or this article.
Keep a close lookout on Oreilly, his wife use to date Sen.Kennedy.She also dated and went to school with William Drayton(Flavor Flav). No wonder he hates the Kennedy's and black people so much.
kid funkadelic | Homepage | 08.27.09 - 12:34 am | # "
Their keepers can't be doing a very good job b/c they seem to be free to spout their charming brand of hate at will.
August 27, 2009, 11:38:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
Lie...
ramjet | Homepage | 08.27.09 - 11:18 pm | #
Which part exactly?
August 27, 2009, 11:38:48 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
"Missed your chance, fertile ground here and you sent it away without making a convincing attempt to convert me. "
More stupid crap.
No one sent her away.
She didn't wander in here as "fertile ground" opened to convincing.
It made no sense for her to suggest that she is and then end by essentially saying that she and her country are a closed market to American conservatism.
She's leaving because she ain't up to it and has to couch that in the suggestion that we've been xenophobic and hostile to her nonexistent friendless.
Bye, babe!...
August 27, 2009, 11:39:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Grammie
I'm sorry to hear that, FF. Even when I go home now I don't go into the Quarter. I'd rather remember it as a fun place to go on dates and see the best sights of Mardi Gras.
Some areas will never come back and many will probably take generations.
August 27, 2009, 11:49:01 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ramjet
That would be this part: ".........but I see you are still rather inhospitable to foreign posters, so I'll say good night now."
And now that I think about it, this part qualifies as well: "My, we are hostile tonight."
And this part: ""As to ramjet, I'll just leave him screaming from his corner...."
August 27, 2009, 11:55:44 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Their keepers can't be doing a very good job b/c they seem to be free to spout their charming brand of hate at will.
Grammie | 08.27.09 - 11:43 pm | #
Oh, yeah.
And when this current NHer gets tired of wallowing in it there, she comes down here, makes a point of reminding everyone she's not American, and then calls us xenophobic because we've had the temerity to counter her statements.
THAT takes the cake for disingenuous cheapshot tactics!
August 28, 2009, 12:00:56 AM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
Didn't saying I was going away for good Cecelia, just for the night.
You are all up rather late tonight, aren't you?
I was only being fair, or trying to be. You had your chance to convert me, but as we are a rather liberal "socialist" Country I realize that it was near impossible.
The market isn't closed to your brand of "American conservatism", but it would make it difficult, and virtually impossible for Fox and their nonsense. Just stating a fact, not trying to be argumentative.
The Red Eye segment did not get us off to a good start, I agree, but I do not understand some of the hostility.
Why and what does ramjet think I am lying about, for example.
How do you stand this halo scan? It's so slow and tedious, but I will keep myself awake a little longer.
August 28, 2009, 12:04:42 AM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
ramjet | Homepage | 08.28.09 - 12:00 am | #
And the lie is where?
August 28, 2009, 12:07:51 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
ramjet | Homepage | 08.28.09 - 12:00 am | #
Oh, and I like the part where poor little her had "just popped in to say hello"...while within her FIRST post she was suggesting that Johnny censors opposition viewpoints.
"Now in the spirit of Free Speech, let's see how much of this post makes it to the blog. lol"
Oh, we had YOU at hello...
August 28, 2009, 12:13:53 AM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
Did I hurt your feeling ramjet?
I still see no lie. Just personal observations and I would assume, I am free to express those freely. You may disagree, but I see no lie.
Inhospitable: My cable News is not your Cable News and I have learned from experience that mine is not relevant or acceptable. So yes if that is still the rule, it's inhospitable, from my view point.
August 28, 2009, 12:18:15 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Damail
Oh, this is too funny. A liberal icon passes away, and that e-e-e-v-i-l right-wing Fox News is the cable network that gets the most viewers?
MWAAAAHAAHAHAHA!
Sorry. Couldn't help myself.
August 28, 2009, 12:38:09 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
14tr, I'd wager that when someone prefaces a goodbye with a complaint that they've been treated badly because of some innate dislike of foreigners, the assumption isn't that they're merely tired of haloscan.
No, you weren't at all trying to be fair in any sense of that word.
I"m tired of this sort of cheapshot crap and I'm going to help you pretend you weren't doing it.
As for my "chance" to convert you, why in the world do you think that was my intention?
I wasn't doing anything other than pointing our your irrational argument.
Not that you don't do well at that yourself.
August 28, 2009, 12:42:52 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
"I still see no lie. Just personal observations and I would assume, I am free to express those freely. You may disagree, but I see no lie."
Anyone see how Glenn Beck might find this delightful...
August 28, 2009, 12:50:27 AM EDT – Like – Reply
flindycon
Al Frankenstein wrote on 08.27.09 - 10:22 pm:
"oneforetheroad | 08.27.09 - 9:40 pm | #
Is right, Beck is no more than a comedian and a fear monger, his ratings are high because people like to watch trainwrecks and Beck is surely that."
Well, gee, Al Franken, it would follow then, that Countdown would have much higher ratings than it does, since that show has truely been a trainwreck for a number of years.
Oops. There goes your theory Al.
August 28, 2009, 6:59:31 AM EDT – Like – Reply
cee
In the context of 14tr's ideological playmates organizing a boycott (which was the context of my post), that is only for the purpose of stopping Mr. Beck from expressing his, "observations," this quote seems rather hypocritical....
"I still see no lie. Just personal observations and I would assume, I am free to express those freely. You may disagree, but I see no lie."
Oh, so was Beck's "observation" about Obama being a racist a lie or an opinion simply open to disagreement? According to some in our fair land, such speech is one step away from similar theories like Beck's....the hateful pitchfork crowd outside The White House with hangman's noose and torches in hand!
You see, both right and left have their conspiracy theorists, and both have had megaphones in the media.....It seems that when the megaphone gets bigger for the right, the left begins to scream, stomp their feet and contemplate pretty draconian steps to stop the speech.
Also, unsupported theories about "trainwreck," audiences similar to the phenomenon of Jerry Springer seems counter to the usual cry for rational and analytical debate the left says they are proud of....Saying millions of people do not have sincere ideological agreement with Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity is not a smart assumption....We see such results at townhall meetings here daily.
Elitists, whether intellectual, ideological or class based, have made such mistakes through the millenia...Their primative, defensive and unrecognized intolerance, and resultant prejudices, of the "dirty masses," have lead to more problems than most are ready to admit.
Drop the arrogance and self-rightousness and perhaps things will improve.
August 28, 2009, 7:49:18 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Blackflon
"Keith Olbermann was kissing some major Maxine Water's butt......"
EEEEWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!
August 28, 2009, 8:57:48 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Al Frankenstein
Drop the arrogance and self-rightousness and perhaps things will improve.
cee | 08.28.09 - 7:54 am | #
I read your post Cee and first of all what gives you the right to call anyone who questions your conservative views arrogant, if anyone is arrogant it is the Conservative for spreading lies about healthcare, with Palin as the leader of her mythical death panels.
All Hannity, Beck and Limbaugh are doing is spinning, spinning any little soundbite to push the agenda.
They are the reason that people come to these town hall meetings with half truths and distortions led by Fox News and the Conservative media, even John McCain had problems with COnservatives at his recent town hall meetings. I feel for you Cee if you think that Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck share your views, they are fear mongers and liars and that is all there is to it,
August 28, 2009, 10:55:48 AM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
"Elitists, whether intellectual, ideological or class based, have made such mistakes through the millenia...Their primative, defensive and unrecognized intolerance, and resultant prejudices, of the "dirty masses," have lead to more problems than most are ready to admit."
cee | 08.28.09 - 7:54 am | #
Elitists like this Cee?
"Damned Elitists!"
http://redtory.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/damned-elitists/
Oh bye the way, I agree. Your observations are right on the money.
August 28, 2009, 11:29:05 AM EDT – Like – Reply
cee
Ah yes, political tactics that are ok when used by leftist advocates are "fear mongering," and "lies," when the right uses them.
I have just sat through 8 years of the exact same rhetoric used for political gain....Saw protestors spray blood onto public officials in the halls of congress.....heard cable talking heads call President Bush and Vice President Cheney fascists, terrorists, shreaders of the Constitution and war mongers.....all "opinion" acceptable for discussion but now, when the other party is in total power....opinion on the impact policy may have in the future, (including panels of government appointees authorized to ration medical care) is "lies."
Sorry Al....rational examination of even the recent past shows that the cliche of "Good for goose, is good for gander" still applies....What a leftist calls "cost savings in Medicare" a right-winger can call a "death panel." What a right-winger called reforming Social Security a leftist called "destroying Social Security."
BTW, when ANY elitist, right-wing or left-wing, dismisses a point of view only based on a demogogic argument like "IT'S A LIE!" instead of addressing the actual topic, that is a dangerous thing. It is also irrational and immoral.
August 28, 2009, 11:35:23 AM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
With that I will remind all that this is a cable news discussion, not a political debate. I expect further comments will reflect that.
August 28, 2009, 11:37:16 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
This sort of belies the tract Al has taken up until till now, does it not?...
Let me ask you something, Al. If Pres. Bush had brought a policy for a govt subsidized school voucher program that would function along side the current public school system, would you term it "lies" and fear mongering when critics suggested that this program was designed to ultimately do away the traditional public school system?
Would you term that stance as spreading fear, even though the legislation expressly stated that this voucher program would not in any way threaten or hinder the existing system?
Would conjectures about policy changes that the existing school structure might be forced to make in order to compete with the new voucher program be "lies"?
Would prognostications and conjectures about about the allocation of limited funds for both programs be fear mongering?
And IN PARTICULAR would questions about the motivations and ultimate goals of a political party with a history of antipathy against the traditional structure, merely be the spreading of misinformation, in this hypothetical scenario of a school voucher program?
Would all these things be ghastly lies, fear mongering, misinformation, ignorance merely because the CURRENT legislation for school vouchers EXPRESSLY stated an intent to do no harm to and to operate side by side with, the current system?
You think about that, Al. You think about all that would be said by your side in such a scenario of a public alternative to the current system, and then tell us that the current concerns are all just political baloney and falsehoods.
August 28, 2009, 11:49:16 AM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Well, Johnny, I hope you'll allow an answer to the charges Al put up on the site.
August 28, 2009, 11:50:39 AM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
With that I will remind all that this is a cable news discussion, not a political debate. I expect further comments will reflect that.
johnny dollar | Homepage | 08.28.09 - 11:42 am | #
I am not sure how you can do that.
Fox is political, there is no getting around that. How do you divide the two? Discuss their programming without reference to it's content?
The moment you add dissenting voices, ie Olbermann, doesn't it become political? You vs them?
I have never understood how you can talk about one without the other. Or how foreign news sources are off limits. It seems to narrow your focus, but perhaps as a Canadian I am missing something.
August 28, 2009, 12:04:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Al Frankenstein
Cee, and some of Fox News gave Bush and Cheney a free pass and now those same people go after Obama, where is the fairness in that.
Edited By Siteowner
August 28, 2009, 12:14:45 PM EDT – Like – Reply
johnny dollar
Cecelia as the most recent CotD you got to get your reply in before the window closed.
1, I'll tell you how you do it. You discuss programming, content, people, ratings, criticisms, controversies, etc, about cable news. You don't debate politics, left vs right, Dem vs GOP, Bush vs Obama, or political stuff. We've been doing it here for coming up on five years now, so I'm kind of surprised that the notion comes up that it can't be done.
As for foreign news sources, this is a US site about cable news. Foreign news sources are no more relevant than, say, projected hoe-handle distribution for fiscal year '09-'10.
Now that everyone has had their say, the discussion will refocus on cable news. Right?
August 28, 2009, 12:15:38 PM EDT – Like – Reply
oneforetheroad
Fair enough Johnny, but Fox broadcasts in Canada too, therefore it is part of our cable news programming.
As such Canadian dissent is not or should not be off limits. The world does not revolve around the USA and I thought the internet was meant to widen everyone's horizons, not limit them.
Anyway here is an irreverent look at the news, that will hopefully give you all a chuckle regardless of political affiliation.
Ominous Music Causes Panic in U.S.
http://redtory.wordpress.com/page/2/
August 28, 2009, 12:33:28 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Al Frankenstein
Cecelia,
I would have been all for it, I am for big government .
As a verteran I am currently using the Government healthcare system and you know what it's great, no problems, no waiting I live close to a VA hospital and have great doctors. I am very well taken care of.
Fox news lies and distorts the facts about government ran healthcare, the choice is easy keep you own or take the government option.
But of course idiots like Beck, Hannity and Limbaugh have made up their own ideas about it and cry daily socialism, socialism, socialism.
Fox News which has its conservative agenda never went after Bush but guess what Obama wants to inprove healthcare and all they can do is bitch about it,
Edited By Siteowner
August 28, 2009, 12:45:08 PM EDT – Like – Reply
cee
I suppose if you come at this discussion with the belief that the media, in general, does not have a bias towards "progressive" ideology then my take on it all will be nothing but a humming sound.
Political gamesmanship is a REALITY and the media has always been a conduit for it. Finally, after a progressive strangle-hold for decades on the nets and papers, there are alternatives that allow a conservative POV fair access. I say hurrah for free speech!
I have NO problem with KEITH OLBERMANN calling me a terrorist racist tin-foil hat wearing loon. He has the right and I would not ask my neighbor to boycott any product advertising on his show.....yet (we'll see what happens with the FNC boycott, I may be persuaded to change my stand against such tactics).
I will point out, however, the hypocrisy of people like Olbermann crying foul over such dramatic rhetoric when a right-winger does the same exact thing....and the ill advised idea of calling for a boycott based on a difference in ideological opinion.
Like I said originally, things are getting ugly.
Lastly, Olbermann still claims to be a reporter....he isn't....he's a hyperpartisan leftist shill. Glenn Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity (as well as the companies that broadcast their shows) are honest about their role as COMMENTATORS. That is a very important distinction between the degree of professionalism between FNC and NBC NEWS.
August 28, 2009, 1:24:26 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Johnny, I knew I was skating on thin ice with the political talk and hoped my explanation that I was merely answering Lil'lfellerstein would explain it.
I'm a guest here and I apologize if I've taxed your hospitality on this.
Lil'fellerstein: you've said nothing that answers the essential point of my post.
My point is that prognostications and conjectures about the ultimate effect of the healthcare bill are not LIES told by FNC.
They are the normal process of debating the effects of ANY legislation.
What "lies" has FNC told about the
August 28, 2009, 1:48:04 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
What "lies" has FNC told about the
Cecelia | 08.28.09 - 1:53 pm |
Oops.
What lies has FNC told about the health care bill, Frankenstein?
August 28, 2009, 2:27:34 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Al Frankenstein
Death panels for one, cherry picking individuals from Canada and elsewhere who are against government ran healthcare.
Also why did CNN talk to many people who were on government ran healthcare and they said that they have no problem with it, why does Fox news not do that, because it is not something they want to hear, anything to smear the great Obama, Fox News is clearly in the pocket of the RNC.
Especially Doocy, Carlson, Cavuto, Beck (but he is just a moron) Hannity, O'Reilly (Yes Chimeri O'Reilly is a Conservative and If you cannot see that I feel for you)
Once again question answered but sorry I don't follow the Fox News agenda so why would you really care.
August 29, 2009, 12:51:35 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Ashley
Mr. F claims that FNC lied about "Death panels for one, cherry picking individuals from Canada and elsewhere who are against government ran healthcare."
Al, is that the best you to illustrate lies? Regarding "Death Panels", who said it, what exactly was said, how is it a lie? Second, what is the lie in "cherry picking"? How did you determine they cherry picked, what was the occasion, and the only way it could be a lie is if they claimed they did not cherry pick but you can prove that they did.
"Also why did CNN talk to many people who were on government ran healthcare and they said that they have no problem with it, why does Fox news not do that"?
How do you know FNC did not do that. Can you prove that? You're making a very broad statement for someone who says they don't watch FNC.
"Fox News is clearly in the pocket of the RNC." That is clearly your opinion, and not a fact.
Once again question answered but sorry I don't follow the Fox News agenda so why would you really care.
Al Frankenstein | 08.29.09 - 12:56 pm | #
OK Al, if you are answering questions, how about answering the list that has been posed to you on several occasions. You continue to duck, dodge, and avoid.
August 29, 2009, 1:39:17 PM EDT – Like – Reply
ramjet
Maybe CNN is the "cherry picker" since FNC has had folks on who praise "government ran (sic) healthcare."
How is it possible to consider a fair and balanced presentation BY FOX NEWS of opponents and proponents of government run health care programs as "SOMETHING THEY (DON'T) WANT TO HEAR" and doing "anything to smear the great Obama?" Huh??????
And ALF, it's sweet of you to feel sorry for Chimeri. It's almost like you and he have had a long term relationship, dating back far beyond your arrival at J$P. Your thoughtfulness is heartwarming, to say the least.
August 29, 2009, 4:00:49 PM EDT – Like – Reply
Cecelia
Al Frankenstein | 08.29.09 - 12:56 pm | #
I'm just now seeing this response from Lil'fellerstein.
Al, it is ENTIRELY correct of FNC to air a discussion of end of live matters as regards a public health care option.
As a consumer YOU should want that.
Evidently you missed the link I gave of a New York Times interview with the president, where Pres. Obama, himself, mentioned a "voluntary" panel that would assist families in deciding the efficacy of continued medical treatment for their chronically ill or terminally loved one.
In the course of talking about that panel, the president mentioned that this issue would HAVE to addressed because such care was roughly 80% of the total cost of heath care in this country.
Don't believe me-- here's the link.
http://tinyurl.com/dy5oxg
You tell me if Sara Palin dreamed up death panels... and if it's not logical to extrapolate that in a matter of 80% of the expense in a public system, that there will be the need for such panels to keep costs down because politicians must face the electorate with every tax increase.
And in a system using public money, how quickly will be impetus go from "this is the money it's costing tax payers to keep you alive" to "why are you using so much of the tax payer's money to stay alive?"
Here's the quote:
"I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.
So how do you how do we deal with it?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And thats part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. Its not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And thats part of what I suspect youll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now."
August 31, 2009, 11:07:36 AM EDT – Like – Reply
